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Old 09-26-2012, 08:35   #121
ChuteTheMall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
FWIW:

The cost of ammo (plus moving to where I currently live) has caused my shooting to become a slightly more than quarterly affair.

You gotta get out more.

I guess someone who only shoots about 4 times per year doesn't need much ammo, but if you had invested in it when it was cheaper, you could benefit from it right now, and into the future.

So far this week I only went shooting once, and it was .38 spl revolver day; so I put 50 rounds of 158g LRN thru my 2 Vaqueros for accuracy (normally I compete and put 100 rounds thru them very fast at big, close targets against the clock, no time for precision),
followed by 100 rounds of 130g FMJ thru my 2 new-to-me K frames and my old pre-lock 642 airweight J-frame (which really requires much more practice)
and maybe another 100 rounds of bulk .22LR thru my new 43 airlite J-frame (still breaking it in). About 250 rounds of 3 types of ammo thru 6 revolvers in less than one hour.

When shooting bottom feeders (my preferred weapons) like Glocks & AKs I tend to burn up much more ammo, bringing pre-loaded mags to the range saves time.

If I still had to go out and buy ammo every time I wanted to go shooting, I'd probably shoot less often too. Glad I stocked up back when prices were lower.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:56   #122
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Originally Posted by kirgi08 View Post
We have zero debt and are of the grid if need be.'08.
You asked "Why is that?"

My entire post went on to explain, did you read all of it?

You said "Medical is covered."

I said "unforeseen" medical expenses. My friend's father was just told that he would be out of pocket nearly a half a million dollars, yes, $500,000 for a lung replacement. You gotta half a mil put away for medical expenses?

If you're truly interested in using your money to best protect your family's lives, it would make much more sense to save it for things that actually have some likelihood of occurring, instead of some action-movie-scenario in which you're shooting through thousands of rounds of ammunition to stay alive.

Yes, ammo is also good for bartering, but again, the chance that you will need that money for medical purposes is far greater than the almost statically irrelevant chance of you ending up in some doomsday scenario, going through thousands of rounds of ammo and warding off drones of attackers and bartering with ammunition.

I suspect that the real reason people take part in this irrational hoarding is that saving for medical expenses isn't nearly as thrilling as hoarding ammunition and planning for doomsday.

Again, a supply is a good thing, hoarding makes no sense.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:14   #123
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
You asked "Why is that?"

My entire post went on to explain, did you read all of it?

You said "Medical is covered."

I said "unforeseen" medical expenses. My friend's father was just told that he would be out of pocket nearly a half a million dollars, yes, $500,000 for a lung replacement. You gotta half a mil put away for medical expenses?

If you're truly interested in using your money to best protect your family's lives, it would make much more sense to save it for things that actually have some likelihood of occurring, instead of some action-movie-scenario in which you're shooting through thousands of rounds of ammunition to stay alive.

Yes, ammo is also good for bartering, but again, the chance that you will need that money for medical purposes is far greater than the almost statically irrelevant chance of you ending up in some doomsday scenario, going through thousands of rounds of ammo and warding off drones of attackers and bartering with ammunition.

I suspect that the real reason people take part in this irrational hoarding is that saving for medical expenses isn't nearly as thrilling as hoarding ammunition and planning for doomsday.

Again, a supply is a good thing, hoarding makes no sense.
I've given up on trying to set aside half a million dollars for an unexpected lung transplant, but I have saved up thousands of rounds of ammo which allow me to shoot as much as I want for many years. Bought it cheap & stacked it deep!

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Old 09-26-2012, 09:32   #124
M&P15T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
You gotta get out more.

I guess someone who only shoots about 4 times per year doesn't need much ammo, but if you had invested in it when it was cheaper, you could benefit from it right now, and into the future.

So far this week I only went shooting once, and it was .38 spl revolver day; so I put 50 rounds of 158g LRN thru my 2 Vaqueros for accuracy (normally I compete and put 100 rounds thru them very fast at big, close targets against the clock, no time for precision),
followed by 100 rounds of 130g FMJ thru my 2 new-to-me K frames and my old pre-lock 642 airweight J-frame (which really requires much more practice)
and maybe another 100 rounds of bulk .22LR thru my new 43 airlite J-frame (still breaking it in). About 250 rounds of 3 types of ammo thru 6 revolvers in less than one hour.

When shooting bottom feeders (my preferred weapons) like Glocks & AKs I tend to burn up much more ammo, bringing pre-loaded mags to the range saves time.

If I still had to go out and buy ammo every time I wanted to go shooting, I'd probably shoot less often too. Glad I stocked up back when prices were lower.
Really about 8 times a year, but still nothing like what you get to do.

It's not just the cost of ammo, that's just one concern. There's time, which is even more important. Plus the fact that going shooting requires a 3hr round trip of driving (cost of gas). Plus, I have hobbies other than shooting, like tennis, the gym, and my car.

I am currently schemeing a "prefect day". This would be the gym @ 7:00 in the morning, then detailing my car, then driving out to W.V. and shooting, then heading home and playing tennis.

I do order my ammo on-line in 1k bulk, so I don't get raped at stores.
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Last edited by M&P15T; 09-26-2012 at 09:53..
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:47   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
I guess someone who only shoots about 4 times per year doesn't need much ammo, but if you had invested in it when it was cheaper, you could benefit from it right now, and into the future.
I only became interested in personal self-defense when I bought a handgun in 2005. From that time until 2008 I was in search of good handgun platforms/calibers and didn't purchase ammo in bulk.

After Barack Obama was elected the ammo panic set in and the supply dried up while prices skyrocketed. Now that most of the serious shooting public has secured a supply of ammo prices are moderating a bit, but there's always the chance another panic could hit if Obama is re-elected.

Since 2008 I have decided on two handgun calibers for self-defense and I doubt I'll add any new calibers in the future. Since then I've also added Internet bulk ammo purchases but finances and opportunity have limited my range time.

Right now I'm hoarding what ammo I have because I'm in the market for a particular CCW pistol and want to use the range ammo for break-in and premium JHP to test for function and reliability. I'll buy just about any brass case range ammo and have narrowed my JHP choices to three or four in both calibers I own. In the meantime if I see a great Internet bargain I will go for it. If Obama is re-elected there may also be a good chance that the worldwide economy will tank and ammo prices drop dramatically as discretionary money will be greatly reduced. I remember a couple of years ago after the ammo panic subsided some Internet dealers had great bargains on inventory they wanted to dump.

I agree with Vic; the chances that any of us will require thousands of self-defense rounds in a SHTF scenario are extremely remote. The most likely scenario would be an urban riot situation and in that event I'd stick close to home to defend the premises and family. If I had to shoot more than a few dozen rounds (very unlikely where I'm situated) I'd expect the mob would overrun me after that.

Additionally, I have a great Ruger Mark II and a goodly supply of cost-effective .22lr ammo. Besides providing hours of fun I don't discount the value of this particular pistol as compliment to my two self-defense calibers in a true SHTF scenario.

Just as with a random life-or-death encounter my main concern is absolute gun/ammo reliability and presence of mind to do the right things in such situations. I do my best to ensure the first and pray to God the second point goes well. Unless I get really low on premium JHP self-defense ammo that issue isn't really a concern to me.
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Last edited by unit1069; 09-26-2012 at 21:56..
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Old 09-26-2012, 14:04   #126
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I don't think keeping 500 extra rounds of each caliber for your SHTF weapons you own is a bad idea, but I certainly wouldn't get to carried away and going in dept to buy ammo.
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Old 09-26-2012, 16:23   #127
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I've been stocking up on ammo for the past few years, specifically because I live in California which came extremely close to installing an internet ammo sales ban. Thankfully, the lawsuits brought on with the support of such entities as Calguns prevented this from happening. It was close though. I remember vividly many store owners licking their chops as they warned about upcoming price increases on top of their already too-high prices. In response, people like me bought what we could on-line before the imminent ban and or got into reloading. Others began making plans to make multi-annual trips to Reno to buy in bulk.

Of course, like I said the ban lost in court. I slowed my ammo purchases somewhat, although not entirely...I figured getting lots of practice ammo at good prices while I can, along with a box or two of defense ammo with each order was a good idea...just not at panic pace.

During all of this I have been watching ammo prices very closely. I have to say that what M&P15T has said rings true. While some sites try their hardest to keep prices elevated and or creep them back up, other sites have kept the prices low and or more reflective of actual supply and demand market forces...they will even mention the background stories of how they came across specific lots of ammo at good prices from overzealous buying suppliers and are now passing on the low prices to their customers. There is plenty of inexpensive (relatively speaking) ammo out there if you look for it...it is up to you to make the effort.

Even boutique sellers are starting to feel the heat of supply and demand, thanks to newer on the scene ammo-makers/sellers selling at lower prices (Double Tap and Buffalo Bore vs. Underwood, etc.).
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:32   #128
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Oh boy, these ammo threads...always fun to read ....


unless your shelves are empty before election times

well well well
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:51   #129
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Its far past time to have ammo supplies laid in.
This^ (And typically I never agree with AK.)
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:45   #130
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One additional thought, related to "panic buying", and the firearms enthusiast market place in general.

I remember when the market for ARs went absolutely bonkers, which was the same exact time as the last ammo cost and availability debacle. Now, ARs can be had for a song. In fact, mil-spec builder PSA just had a deal for a mil-spec M4 with an Aimpoint PRO for 1k, total.

Once again, there is no reason for the cost or availability of ammo to get worse, other than what we do to ourselves. And it's about time that it dropped back down to 2005 or so levels.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:48   #131
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This always happens before an election. I have about 5000 rounds of various calibers stocked away. Other than that, I am hoping prices and availability will improve when the panic (hopefully) subsides.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:18   #132
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The only advance to buying now is to beat eventual price increases over time.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:29   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hafler View Post
I don't think keeping 500 extra rounds of each caliber for your SHTF weapons you own is a bad idea, but I certainly wouldn't get to carried away and going in dept to buy ammo.
Well.....after the last evolution where the local Sportsmen's Warehouse had zero, nada, nothing in the way of ammo, slugs, primers or powder, you could well be w/o any shooting ammo.

Not suggesting anyone go into debt but if you can afford to buy more ammo, I think it's a good idea.

No reason whatsoever to trust the Liar in Chief in the White House. Don

Last edited by DonD; 09-28-2012 at 12:30..
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:31   #134
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Originally Posted by Savannah11 View Post
This always happens before an election. I have about 5000 rounds of various calibers stocked away. Other than that, I am hoping prices and availability will improve when the panic (hopefully) subsides.
No, this doesn't happen before every election, it happens when a socialist with a very long history of voting for oppressive anti gun legislation in the IL Senate and the US Senate is up for election/reelection. Don
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:19   #135
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Buy it cheap and stack it deep. Guns, Gold and Ammo will always have a value in relations to the time when they are in demand.
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Old 09-28-2012, 16:51   #136
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No, this doesn't happen before every election, it happens when a socialist with a very long history of voting for oppressive anti gun legislation in the IL Senate and the US Senate is up for election/reelection. Don
Preaching to the choir, Don.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:49   #137
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Preaching to the choir, Don.
Glad to hear it.

I find it stunning that some people on gun forums (not you) say that just because Obozo hasn't pushed for any significant anti gun legislation in his first term that he won't try in a second where he doesn't have to worry about reelection.

His outrageous executive orders could be just the vehicle for outlandish taxes or other, "under the radar" attacks. Don
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Old 09-28-2012, 20:24   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Don't be stupid, don't buy into it. .....
I guarantee you, ammo prices will drop after this election. Feel free to quote me on that in 12 months.
Today's prices, from the The Nation's Gun Show, held in Chantilly VA this weekend, from the big Ammo dealer who is always near the rear restrooms near Georgia Arms (where I bought specialty ammo):

5.56x45 Federal XM 855 62g 420/$200 = $0.48 per round
"........." PMC ...............62g 1000/$325 = $0.325 " "
"......../" Winchester M855 62g 1000/$480 = $0.48
7.62x39 Wolf 123g.................1000/$225 = $0.225
5.45x39 Russian steel case 2160/$320 = $0.148
7.62x54R Russian steel case 880/$155 = $0.176
9mm Tula 115g 900/$170 = $0.188
.45 acp 230g Tula 450/$140 = $0.31
"..............." Aquila 1000/$330 = $0.33
"..............." PMC 1000/$350 = $0.35
"..............." Prvi 500/$165 = $0.33

These prices are cash and carry, but do not include 5% VA sales tax. I might grab another case of that 7.62x54R.

In October 2013, let's see if the prices are substantially cheaper due to your imaginary economic forces, or let's see if the prices are the same or even higher, due to economic realities and based upon years of experience watching prices.

Assuming you are still around next year, that is.
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Old 09-28-2012, 20:32   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
I'm not upset, nor am I bluffing....
....Once we're past the election silly season of panic and dispair, I predict prices will start to rapdily fall....

Anyways, we'll see next summer.

Remember this thread. Maybe you can use your powers of bizzzness education to take a chance and voice your prediction.
I predict similar prices, or higher prices, certainly not lower prices.

I hope you are still around to discuss it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 21:05   #140
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Today, let's see what Ammoman lists, with free shipping:

5.56 Winchester 62g M855 Green Tip 1000/$499 = $0.499
5.45x39 53g fmj Russian 1080/$199 = $0.18
5.45x39 Wolf Military Classic WPA fmj 750/$180 = $0.24
7.62x39 Wolf Military Classic 123g FMJ 1000/$239 = $0.239
7.62 x 54R RUSSIAN 147g FMJBT BALL 880/$199 = $0.226
9MM WOLF Military Classic 115g 800/$199 = $0.248
9mm PMC 115g fmj 1000/$259 = $0.259
.45acp Wolf Military Classic 230g fmj 500/$189 = $0.378
.45acp S&B 230g fmj 500/$225 = $0.45

I doubt whether these prices will ever be significantly lower, but who are you going to believe?
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