GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-2012, 17:51   #1
misunderestimated
Senior Member
 
misunderestimated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ashamed to live in NY
Posts: 1,094
Explain to me the exspress lane and when I started

Ever since they have been having questioners at the events I have been suggesting an experienced shooters lane. I may have even mentioned it here before. I know who should use the express lane I just did not know how they would be separated or qualified at the event.

Shot a GSSF event at least 2 prior times
Maybee RO at an event
All magazines loaded and ready to go
Has a friend who is taping

This I feel is forward thinking
misunderestimated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 18:11   #2
ede
Bama's Friend
 
ede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: L.A.
Posts: 9,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by misunderestimated View Post
Ever since they have been having questioners at the events I have been suggesting an experienced shooters lane. I may have even mentioned it here before. I know who should use the express lane I just did not know how they would be separated or qualified at the event.

Shot a GSSF event at least 2 prior times
Maybee RO at an event
All magazines loaded and ready to go
Has a friend who is taping

This I feel is forward thinking
You're going to have a hard time finding a range with space to set up an express lane for 3 stages to allow your experience shooters to use. You're also forcing the new and impressionable shooters into the slow lane. If shooting 2 events qualifies you as an experienced shooter that would include about everyone. ROing GSSF does little to develope skills or understanding of the game. The majority of ROs are not GSSF knowledgable.
__________________
Team CARVER Custom
GSSF & NRA Life Member
Steel Challenge, USPSA
PM Black Diamond 538 F&AM
Bamatrooper taught Chuck Norris how to shoot.
ede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 19:07   #3
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ede View Post
...The majority of ROs are not GSSF knowledgable.
Oh dear... that's depressing.

...but we've got 2 new graduates from this past 3-day weekend who are pretty darn good - Scott (PM720) and Ed (emtjr928).
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 19:37   #4
emtjr928
Senior Member
 
emtjr928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: McDonough, Ga.
Posts: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Oh dear... that's depressing.

...but we've got 2 new graduates from this past 3-day weekend who are pretty darn good - Scott (PM720) and Ed (emtjr928).
Flattery will get you no special considerations from me!

ps. The check is in the mail!
emtjr928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 22:03   #5
njl
Senior Member
 
njl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 9,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by misunderestimated View Post
Ever since they have been having questioners at the events I have been suggesting an experienced shooters lane. I may have even mentioned it here before. I know who should use the express lane I just did not know how they would be separated or qualified at the event.

Shot a GSSF event at least 2 prior times
Maybee RO at an event
All magazines loaded and ready to go
Has a friend who is taping

This I feel is forward thinking
I can kind of understand this and would appreciate it, but I really don't know how you'd weed out who goes express and who doesn't. Sitting in line watching people absolutely flounder on the plates (~60s per string, leaving some standing) is actually kind of painful to me.

I can't really see GSSF doing this though. They're all about the new shooters having a pleasurable match experience, and seeing an exclusive fast lane for the more experienced shooters would probably alienate at least some noobs.
__________________
what guns?
Lifetime GSSF & NRA.
njl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 22:36   #6
PM720
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Oh dear... that's depressing.

...but we've got 2 new graduates from this past 3-day weekend who are pretty darn good - Scott (PM720) and Ed (emtjr928).


Scott
PM720 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2012, 22:43   #7
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM720 View Post


Scott
Is this a sign that you finally made it home?
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 04:30   #8
Glockrunner
HOOYA DEEPSEA
 
Glockrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SC
Posts: 4,779
Send a message via Yahoo to Glockrunner
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Is this a sign that you finally made it home?
Not only does she provide free training, but she makes sure the trainees get home. You're on the ball Kitty
__________________
"As an OK State Trooper once told me, "Why shouldn't a "good" citizen be allowed to carry a gun, all the "bad" guys already do.""
Certified Glock Armorer
Glockrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 04:47   #9
Jason L
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: CT USA
Posts: 110
Express Lane = show up 1/2 hour before signup ends, no lines and no wait time
__________________
NRA life member
GSSF life member
Jason L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:10   #10
Glockrunner
HOOYA DEEPSEA
 
Glockrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SC
Posts: 4,779
Send a message via Yahoo to Glockrunner
Quote:
Originally Posted by misunderestimated View Post
Ever since they have been having questioners at the events I have been suggesting an experienced shooters lane. I may have even mentioned it here before. I know who should use the express lane I just did not know how they would be separated or qualified at the event.

Shot a GSSF event at least 2 prior times
Maybee RO at an event
All magazines loaded and ready to go
Has a friend who is taping

This I feel is forward thinking
As usual, arrived early and waited in line for the sign up. Got my pre-registered stickers and signed it at the stages we wanted to shoot. Went to practice the plates at the Gunny Match stage (probably as close as I'll ever get to shooting that stage) and ran over to shoot the Plates while it was fresh in our minds' eye.

Found I had signed it at 2 "Express Lanes" for the 5 To Glock and the Glock M. Waited for the squading and it worked as it should in both bays.

The concept (as I understood it) was that the lanes were to be used for all competitors. It was mainly there for the competitors that wanted to shoot through all their entries at one time without having to go back and forth with other shooters in between their entries.

It just so happened that we (Pat & I) did experience one shooter with 4 entries. We arrived early enough that only one shooter with more that two entries had signed in or, had already finished that stage before our arrival.

I didn't want to sign up at any Express Lane because:

1. I didn't want to slow the competitors with 3 or more entries,

2. I didn't want to wait a hour for 2 shooters to shoot through.

I do believe Express Lanes can work. I would have NOT signed up there but did, because they were NOT marked as "Express Lanes" for reasons expressed earlier.

Our experience was kind of lopsided too. We only had enough RO's to man one stage in the bay were two were set up. As it would happen, more RO's showed up early on and we got both stages running but with only one timer.

It seemed to run OK to me.

I am toying with the idea for our match too. But I don't think we will really need this concept for our match yet.

Express Lane competitors that come to the stage (match too) bring a lot to the game!

Money for one,
Maybe experience
Usually a bunch of magazines
and a lot of ammo

I can only imagine that magazine management would really play into how far (how many catagories per stage) they can go before being forced off the pulpit.

Like me, shooting 2 catagories with 12 mags. A run at the plates depletes my resources to a position that I have to reload before the next time up anywhere except for practice. (Yes, I know I need more)

So sometimes it would be benefital for some to have a break at the pulpit.

I think the Express Lane idea has a lot of merit and should be strongly considered for future matches.
__________________
"As an OK State Trooper once told me, "Why shouldn't a "good" citizen be allowed to carry a gun, all the "bad" guys already do.""
Certified Glock Armorer

Last edited by Glockrunner; 09-25-2012 at 05:37.. Reason: Add an idea
Glockrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:38   #11
youngann
Pistol People
 
youngann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 88
The problem we had on the Express Plates was that some people shooting 5 or 6 divisions only had THREE or four magazines. That meant they had to step out after each division to reload and it really slowed things down. Of course, they didn't tell us that they didn't have enough magazines until they were already on the firing line.

I think Express stages could work well if they were limited to those who are shooting three or more divisions. Those shooters would also need enough pre-loaded magazines to enable them to really shoot through.
youngann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:55   #12
ede
Bama's Friend
 
ede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: L.A.
Posts: 9,837
It'd go farther speeding the process up if shooters are squadded and know who's on deck and who's in the hole. The on deck shooter ready to step up as soon as the shooter steps off the line. Lot of time wasted in getting shooters to and off the line. Have mags loaded and ready and if not enough mags to finish a division someone to load mags.

Shooters waiting should paste, paint, and reset to free up ROs to focus on ROing and moving shooters in and out.

Lot of shooters complain about "guy in front of me shooting 6 divisions" but if they're loaded and ready to go it takes less time at the end of the day to let them shoot than it does having them pack up and step off line and brining another shooter up and repeating the process a time or two; plus you get ROs who half way understand how it works and the guy shooting six divisions get placed in line somewhere other than where he should of been and gets screwed on having to wait longer.

Shooting ROs on Friday speeds things up quite a bit by not having ROs who need to shoot during the match and not being able to run shooters, but it's hard to see that during a match. Down side to that is not ROs can make it on Friday to shoot.
__________________
Team CARVER Custom
GSSF & NRA Life Member
Steel Challenge, USPSA
PM Black Diamond 538 F&AM
Bamatrooper taught Chuck Norris how to shoot.
ede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 06:49   #13
Alexd29
Go Bucks!
 
Alexd29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 339
Its definately a good idea but, "In theory, practice and theory are the same, but in practice, they rarely are." There are some variables that are hard to control. Range facilities being one of the largest.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
__________________
Gen 3 G34, Gen 3 G26.

Last edited by Alexd29; 09-25-2012 at 06:50..
Alexd29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:01   #14
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post
Not only does she provide free training, but she makes sure the trainees get home. You're on the ball Kitty
I luv my trainees. Don't want anything bad happening to 'em.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:35   #15
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post
...Our experience was kind of lopsided too. We only had enough RO's to man one stage in the bay were two were set up. As it would happen, more RO's showed up early on and we got both stages running but with only one timer...
Our double-staged bay was assigned 5 ROs - but one didn't show up. That left our bay with me and 3 ROs, one of whom had never RO'd or shot GSSF. With that, one of our more experienced trainees had to train the inexperienced trainee while I trained a more experienced trainee for Scorekeeper and CRO. We were short ROs at the bay for much of the day, but Ed and Scott ended up as trainers early on. Throughout Sat and Sun our bay was fed only totally or very inexperienced ROs.

When we were short and had only 4 ROs, a couple of shooters with GSSF RO experience of several matches stepped up to do the squadding. Although it was very helpful, when I looked a bit later scoresheets were stacked 2 and 3 deep on each clip on the tree. (1 sheet/clip is the correct way, BTW.)

Conyers needs 100 ROs to run. If 80% are GSSF-inexperienced, they need many more.

If workable express lanes during the match and Friday RO shoots can help, we should always attempt those 2 practices - especially when we're looking at 1000+ entries.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:46   #16
gravitybad
Member
 
gravitybad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 61
What a pleasure to shoot 3 divisions back to back!!!

I think the express lane was a great idea. I shot Sunday morning without much delay. Didn't mind waiting for the few shooters who shot 4-5 divisions in a row as i knew it was quicker then having them step off the line 1-2 times for someone else to shoot.

Seems like some issues could be resolved by RO asking how many divisions they are shooting and if they have enough preloaded mags to shoot through. If shooter doesnt have enough mags to shoot all divisions entered, they step off line and wait there next turn.

I had 2 ROs ask if I had enough mags to shoot the 3 divisions I entered. Very smooth and, for me, could not have asked for anything more.
gravitybad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 08:33   #17
gravitybad
Member
 
gravitybad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 61
I guess I haven't come across many threads since I started lurking GT centered around why shooters are limited to only 2 divisions before backing off the line...allowing another shooter to step up...and then shot another division or 2.

I would assume its because many shooters would be reloading between divisions to complete their entries? Never understood, if someone has enough mags, why they couldn't shoot 3+ divisions. Conyers was my 4th GSSF match and i hated being pulled off the line after 2 divisions only to wait for a shooter to complete 1-2 div before i could finish my last stage.

Seems logical to me that if shooters step up to the line prepared, everyone gets through the stages a little quicker.

Bottom line...once again...Thumbs up for the Express Lane!
gravitybad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 08:45   #18
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ede View Post
It'd go farther speeding the process up if shooters are squadded and know who's on deck and who's in the hole...

Shooters waiting should paste, paint, and reset to free up ROs to focus on ROing and moving shooters in and out.
Two good points of course, Ed - and both often lost on squadding ROs and shooters who are waiting.

Quote:
Lot of shooters complain about "guy in front of me shooting 6 divisions" but if they're loaded and ready to go it takes less time at the end of the day to let them shoot than it does having them pack up and step off line and brining another shooter up and repeating the process a time or two...
As I RO I expect (on a regular stage - not express) to run shooters with 3 divisions, straight through. But, I follow GSSF rules and ask the follow-on shooters if it's okay. I also take it one step further and thank them AND explain to the waiting group that doing so affects no one but the single next shooter.

Quote:
Shooting ROs on Friday speeds things up quite a bit by not having ROs who need to shoot during the match and not being able to run shooters, but it's hard to see that during a match. Down side to that is not ROs can make it on Friday to shoot.
On Friday I was trying to help set up stages, shoot my entries, RO two stages (5 and M), train 3 new GSSF ROs at a time, organize 3 teams, and fit a quick lunch in there somewhere just to be able to make it to the end of the long day. Soooo... finally, on my own stage, after running dozens of shooters, I asked a guy if he minds if I shoot through so I can get to lunch and get back - and he says NO, he's been waiting a long time... This guy wasn't even an RO - he was one of the MANY non-RO shooters who showed up to shoot on Friday. Some people just don't "get it".

Anyway... I showed remarkable restraint for a Kitty and shrugged my shoulders and went to lunch, then shot plates and didn't get back to my stage for more than an hour and still had to shoot M.
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 14:13   #19
gravitybad
Member
 
gravitybad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
As I RO I expect (on a regular stage - not express) to run shooters with 3 divisions, straight through. But, I follow GSSF rules and ask the follow-on shooters if it's okay. I also take it one step further and thank them AND explain to the waiting group that doing so affects no one but the single next shooter.
So, can anyone shed light on what the exact rationale for the 'rule' (is it a rule?) for breaking up, lets say for this example, a 5 division entry into:
1. shoot 2 divisions - back off line for another shooter
2. shoot 2 more divisions - back off line for another shooter
3. shoot final divison entry
gravitybad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 14:44   #20
PM720
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Is this a sign that you finally made it home?
Not sure yet, I'll let you know in a few days. MAN I was trashed last night!

Scott
PM720 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 15:54   #21
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
Not sure yet, I'll let you know in a few days. MAN I was trashed last night!

Scott
I had an IDPA practice today that I really wanted to attend as one of our shooters was bringing back some tips from Bob Vogel and stages were going to be set to accomplish this - but I was totally beat. My entire body was stiff and nearly immobile this morning, and I hadn't loaded mags last night because I went to bed early. Stopped 4 times when driving home only 400 miles. I must be more out of shape than I ever considered. That was one looooong weekend. If I'd had even one more ounce of fun, I wouldn't have lived through it. I'm still in my jammies... Oh-oh, TMI!
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 16:12   #22
SARDG
Senior Member
 
SARDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida's Left Coast
Posts: 7,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitybad View Post
So, can anyone shed light on what the exact rationale for the 'rule' (is it a rule?) for breaking up, lets say for this example, a 5 division entry into:
1. shoot 2 divisions - back off line for another shooter
2. shoot 2 more divisions - back off line for another shooter
3. shoot final divison entry
The Glock Report:

110.50 Handling multiple competitor entries. Competitors
entering more than two divisions will only
be allowed to shoot two consecutive entries in
succession, except that a competitor who has
no more than three entries may shoot them
in succession if no one in the squad objects.


From the 2012 GSSF RO Guide:

Multiple entries by an individual should be signed in on successive
lines. However, with one exception only two entries may be fired in
succession. After firing two entries the competitor should step off the
line and allow another competitor to shoot their one or two entries. The
first competitor may then return and fire his or her third and fourth
entries, repeating this procedure as necessary. The range officer or
competitors may arrange the squad scoresheets to comply with this rule
AFTER they have been squadded.

If a competitor has three total entries and no one else in the squad
objects, that competitor may shoot all three entries back to back to back.
If anyone in the squad objects, the competitor will shoot his or her three
entries in the normal “shoot two, step off the line for another
competitor’s entry (or two entries), return and shoot the third entry”
order.

Last edited by SARDG; 09-25-2012 at 16:14..
SARDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 05:55   #23
misunderestimated
Senior Member
 
misunderestimated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ashamed to live in NY
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngann View Post
The problem we had on the Express Plates was that some people shooting 5 or 6 divisions only had THREE or four magazines. That meant they had to step out after each division to reload and it really slowed things down. Of course, they didn't tell us that they didn't have enough magazines until they were already on the firing line.

I think Express stages could work well if they were limited to those who are shooting three or more divisions. Those shooters would also need enough pre-loaded magazines to enable them to really shoot through.
Ann this is my theory exactly. Guy walks up and as many magazines he has loaded,in a sleeve on the table is how many div he can shoot.
misunderestimated is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:12.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,105
328 Members
777 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42