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Old 09-23-2012, 07:40   #1
ABNAK
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Federal HST 230gr: +P and standard pressure

Noticed something interesting while breaking in my Kahr CW45. Was trying to use a variety of different ammo and two of those used were the HST in +P and standard pressure. In the course of reloading mags I noticed that the standard pressure ones had skivves cut all the way to the case mouth; on the +P's the skivves were NOT cut all the way down. Leads me to believe that they are different bullets, one for each pressure level.

This is different from the 9mm HST "heavy" 147gr ammo. The 147gr HST has skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth on both the +P and standard pressure rounds, leading me to believe they are the same bullet.

Now obviously the .40 does not have a legit +P rating so there is no comparison to be made, but the 180gr HST's also have the skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth.

So, I wonder why the .45 departs from the "norm" for heavy HST loads with the +P?
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Old 09-23-2012, 14:33   #2
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Hydraulics & velocity I'd imagine. Since the .45 cal. has a wider HP cavity then it only goes to say that it probably needs less "assistance" via the skives at a higher velocity. As an example, the old Speer 200 gr. "Flying Ashtray" opened up very well at over 1,000 fps. Under that & it didn't. Of course, that was before the technology of today.
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Old 09-23-2012, 16:05   #3
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Hydraulics & velocity I'd imagine. Since the .45 cal. has a wider HP cavity then it only goes to say that it probably needs less "assistance" via the skives at a higher velocity. As an example, the old Speer 200 gr. "Flying Ashtray" opened up very well at over 1,000 fps. Under that & it didn't. Of course, that was before the technology of today.

Yeah, I've heard the "flying ashtray" was overrated as it didn't always expand like you would think by looking at it's gaping HP cavity. That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?
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Old 09-23-2012, 17:22   #4
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...That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?

No, it was not. It was an old style cup based HP loaded back when their Lawman series included loaded HP ammo.
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Old 09-27-2012, 15:11   #5
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I don't see any difference.

Below is HST .45+P on left, standard pressure on right.
Pic is crappy but you can see where the flash picked up the bottom of the skives.
If anything the +P appears to have shorter skives.
Caliber Corner

The pic is a little deceiving. To the naked eye there really is no difference.
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Old 09-27-2012, 16:11   #6
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Glad to see your CW45 likes HSTs. Mine doesn't. It has no problem with any other JHP I've tried, but I get the occasional FTF with HST.

As far as your observation goes, I've noticed that too. The standard pressure has longer skives than the +P. If you're wondering why, you could always ask Federal.
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Old 09-27-2012, 18:04   #7
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I use a +p+ 9mm round in my G17. I wonder if there is a +p+ .45 load out there anywhere?
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Old 09-27-2012, 21:02   #8
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I don't see any difference.

Below is HST .45+P on left, standard pressure on right.
Pic is crappy but you can see where the flash picked up the bottom of the skives.
If anything the +P appears to have shorter skives.
Caliber Corner

The pic is a little deceiving. To the naked eye there really is no difference.

That's what I was saying.
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Old 09-27-2012, 21:04   #9
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Glad to see your CW45 likes HSTs. Mine doesn't. It has no problem with any other JHP I've tried, but I get the occasional FTF with HST.

As far as your observation goes, I've noticed that too. The standard pressure has longer skives than the +P. If you're wondering why, you could always ask Federal.
I'd like to have a good point of contact to do just that! In fact, I'd like to know the low-end velocity/expansion threshhold's of a few of the HST rounds.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:43   #10
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That's what I was saying.
Right, sorry for the ramble. What I meant was that none of the +P I have went all the way to the case mouth. And after going over a few boxes there really was no consistent length to the skives of either pressure round.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:03   #11
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I'd use the +p .45 for sure.
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Old 09-28-2012, 14:48   #12
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Right, sorry for the ramble. What I meant was that none of the +P I have went all the way to the case mouth. And after going over a few boxes there really was no consistent length to the skives of either pressure round.

How long ago did you get the ammo? Mine is pretty consistent as far as where the cuts end. Bought it within the last 18 months or so.
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Old 09-28-2012, 16:41   #13
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Yeah, I've heard the "flying ashtray" was overrated as it didn't always expand like you would think by looking at it's gaping HP cavity. That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?
The Speer flying ashtray .45 ACP was over-rated because of the slow velocities that the short .45 ACP case could deliver.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:33   #14
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Curious as to if you measured the OAL and confirmed them to be the same, perhaps the standard pressure is set back a tiny bit further?
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:41   #15
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The .45 ACP has a 100-year record as a manstopper. I guess that the .45 ACP +p rounds are even better.
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Old 10-01-2012, 15:37   #16
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How long ago did you get the ammo? Mine is pretty consistent as far as where the cuts end. Bought it within the last 18 months or so.
About that same age range. The standard pressure has a newer label on it though.
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Old 10-01-2012, 16:21   #17
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I guess that no-one knows if there is a +p+ .45ACP load. They are offered by several companies in 9mmP, so I was wondering about .45 ACP.
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Old 10-01-2012, 18:26   #18
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I guess that no-one knows if there is a +p+ .45ACP load. They are offered by several companies in 9mmP, so I was wondering about .45 ACP.
Never heard of one. Now perhaps one of the boutique ammo makers bills one as +P+ but as AFAIK there is no such SAAMI designation.

Georgia Arms is good for that, at least with "+P" .40 loads.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:33   #19
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Well

I guess that they don't exist.
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