Best sized .45 ACP self-defese for a carbine

bunk22 · 09-18-2012, 15:03

I've done some research and I see that the 230gr does not gain a significant amount of velocity out of a 16" barrel over your standard 5" handgun barrel. I found an article that demonstrated where the lighter loads, the 165 gr specifically, gained 200ft/sec out the barrel but fragmented on impact with the ballistics gel and penetrated just over 5". Is 230gr the way to go? Right now, I have PDX1 230gr bonded hollow point but just checking into other loads. Here is the article:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...iber-carbines/

***Glockdude1*** · 09-18-2012, 15:15

Vector Arms build a nice .45 Uzi

http://www.kellyenterprises.net/vect...lts,11-20.html

collim1 · 09-18-2012, 15:35

Any gain in velocity out of a carbine is a plus, but the real advantage is the longer sight radius, better recoil control, and ease of shooting a carbine vs a pistol.

I would carry 230g+P in a .45 carbine.

SCmasterblaster · 09-19-2012, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by collim1

Any gain in velocity out of a carbine is a plus, but the real advantage is the longer sight radius, better recoil control, and ease of shooting a carbine vs a pistol.

I would carry 230g+P in a .45 carbine.

Great advice!!

GlockPride · 09-19-2012, 17:44

Kriss if you want the ultimate. Nothing else needs to be said.

GWG19 · 09-19-2012, 20:18

230 grain 45ACP plus the KRISS Super V SBR set up is a whole lot of thump on the target.

bunk22 · 09-19-2012, 20:44

Already have a .45 carbine, just asking about good self-defense ammo. Good info so far, thank you

Jim S. · 09-22-2012, 20:21

Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

bunk22 · 09-22-2012, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim S.

Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

Lots of information that I didn't ask for but thanks and I'm not trying to be mean. I already have a shot gun for home defense as well as many handguns, any can be used for home defense. My G17 with tactical light sits nearby, as does my shot gun. I would like to use this carbine as hd as well. I ask as the dynamics of a pistol carbine change a bit but I don't think they do as much for the 45 ACP.

Clutch Cargo · 09-23-2012, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim S.

Three things are important in a gun fight.
1st - Being able to hit what you are aiming at.
2nd - Penetration. You have to hit a vital organ or a large artery or a major nerve center.
3rd - Size of the hole.

Since we can't carry a carbine for self defense I will assume that you are thinking Home Defense.
Get a shot gun. Best home defense weapon made for normal folks.
If you must have a 45 for home defense I would hope that the carbine is a back up to a hand gun... loaded with good name brand hollow points. Sort of like the PDX1's.
In the carbine I would consider FMJ rounds to make sure you have a lot of penetration since the hand gun was not enough.
A 45 hole is sufficient already and the FMJ will give you the penetration.
The rest would be up to you to hit the bad guy.

I can carry a carbine as well as any law abiding Texan, why can't YOU?

avenues165 · 09-23-2012, 23:44

If you haven't already, you may want to look at the website Ballistics by the Inch. It may help you see the relationship between barrel length increase and bullet velocity increases. You can also pull up the graphs that show energy vs. barrel length.

water_daddy · 09-25-2012, 00:23

I'd shoot 230gr 45 Super loads if your carbine is rated for it.

**DustyJacket** · 09-25-2012, 02:50

Check your owners manual.
Does it recommend against +P for a blowback .45 ?

Some don't recommend +P because it will open the action too soon.

cowboy1964 · 09-25-2012, 05:42

45 FMJ out of a carbine for home defense? I sure wouldn't want to be living next door to that person.

bunk22 · 09-25-2012, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyJacket

Check your owners manual.
Does it recommend against +P for a blowback .45 ?

Some don't recommend +P because it will open the action too soon.

Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.

water_daddy · 09-25-2012, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunk22

Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.

I'd recommend looking at several sources with comparable tests & assumptions and then consider the results and their projections. We gun people can be very bias and use loads, conditions, type of rifling, measuring......you name it to come up with very different results.

Logically speaking and oversimplifying a bit, the load with the a greater powder charge and slower burning powders will benefit the most from the longer barrel. A moly coated 230gr 45 Super is about as effective as you can make a 16" and still keep the 45 acp dimension case. You start going too fast with a light soft wide meplate 45 and it quickly turns to a varmit round.

**DustyJacket** · 09-25-2012, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunk22

Yeah, it's rated for it. The ballistics by the inch is a good website for sure. The 230gr 45 auto out of 16" barrel doesn't gain much velocity over your standard 5" barrel. Lighter bullets gain about 200ft/s, at least from the sight information.

I wasn't talking velocity, but chamber pressure.

But, if it is rated go ahead.
I was always patial to 200gr LSWC for target loads, and the old-style Speer 200gr JHC (flying ashtray) for defense

bunk22 · 09-26-2012, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyJacket

I wasn't talking velocity, but chamber pressure.

But, if it is rated go ahead.
I was always patial to 200gr LSWC for target loads, and the old-style Speer 200gr JHC (flying ashtray) for defense

Yes but I was talking about that site, they basically list velocity out of the barrel it seems.

SCmasterblaster · 09-26-2012, 09:32

CorBon makes good .45 ammo.

Beware Owner · 09-26-2012, 09:50

I'd try coming up with my own loads for it....

Darkangel1846 · 09-26-2012, 10:28

Nothing wrong with a 230 Gr HP, will do fine out to 100-150 yards.

***RWBlue*** · 09-26-2012, 22:39

Distance to target?
What carbine?
Does the ammo in the carbine need to be the ammo used in a handgun? What handgun?
Do you reload?

Get me some answers and maybe I can give you some answers. Everyone else here is just pushing their own favorite load.

alwaysshootin · 09-27-2012, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunk22

I've done some research and I see that the 230gr does not gain a significant amount of velocity out of a 16" barrel over your standard 5" handgun barrel. I found an article that demonstrated where the lighter loads, the 165 gr specifically, gained 200ft/sec out the barrel but fragmented on impact with the ballistics gel and penetrated just over 5". Is 230gr the way to go? Right now, I have PDX1 230gr bonded hollow point but just checking into other loads. Here is the article:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/i...iber-carbines/

My chronograph, using 230 hardball, showed a lower velocity out of my Marlin Camp 45, then my 1911, at 10 yards. Didn't do any load experimenting, but I wasn't impressed. Has anyone else compared velocities?

bunk22 · 09-27-2012, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue

Distance to target?
What carbine?
Does the ammo in the carbine need to be the ammo used in a handgun? What handgun?
Do you reload?

Get me some answers and maybe I can give you some answers. Everyone else here is just pushing their own favorite load.

I would say at least out to 50 yards, maybe 100 max. I don't reload and the barrel is 16", a Hi-Point 4595TS.

***RWBlue*** · 09-27-2012, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunk22

I would say at least out to 50 yards, maybe 100 max. I don't reload and the barrel is 16", a Hi-Point 4595TS.

Do you need to use the same load for a handgun or can this be a different load?

The Hi-Point 4595TS is straight blow back operated? No locking breach?