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Old 09-14-2012, 16:09   #51
Schabesbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
declaring we should accept cause without effect.
I think you mean "accept effect without cause."
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Old 09-14-2012, 16:10   #52
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I think you mean "accept effect without cause."
You are correct. I wrote it bassackwards.
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Old 09-14-2012, 16:27   #53
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That's just it, that is no longer a valid statement. The whole point of this thread is that there are now scientific theories that push past the very start of spacetime itself.

It was one thing when science couldn't even begin to describe what came before. Anyone's guess was equally valid, but that is no longer the case. Now we have well developed, sound and testable mathematical theories that fully explain the cause of the Big Bang and the beginning of spacetime.
Can you tell me what that is then, in simple terms that I can understand. How was there no matter and no time and then there was matter and time?
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Old 09-14-2012, 16:56   #54
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The BBT really is. Layer upon layer of the more absurd is added to attempt to defend the undefendable. Okham's Razor becomes a butter knife. BBT gets challenged, then it is asserted that it is an infinitely dense singularity so dense that it exceeds time and space and always was. When that is shown to be absurd, a multiverse is suggested as infinite and we just inhabit one where this one contradiction is possible. When that is absurd, we are told branes did it. So, as far as I can tell there are three levels of nonsense to try to explain a singularity that somehow existed on its own accord. Again, declaring we should accept cause without effect.
You've got that backwards, the big bang would be the effect and the singularity the cause. We can certainly accept effect without cause. Your post isn't very coherent.

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So, as far as I can tell there are three levels of nonsense to try to explain a singularity that somehow existed on its own accord.
They're trying to find how the singularity occurred but also stating it existed on its own accord? That makes no sense.

Last edited by Harper; 09-14-2012 at 18:09..
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Old 09-14-2012, 17:14   #55
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The BBT really is. Layer upon layer of the more absurd is added to attempt to defend the undefendable. Okham's Razor becomes a butter knife. BBT gets challenged, then it is asserted that it is an infinitely dense singularity so dense that it exceeds time and space and always was. When that is shown to be absurd, a multiverse is suggested as infinite and we just inhabit one where this one contradiction is possible. When that is absurd, we are told branes did it. So, as far as I can tell there are three levels of nonsense to try to explain a singularity that somehow existed on its own accord. Again, declaring we should accept cause without effect.
Wow, you really have no idea what we are even talking about here. My apologies, this is just simply beyond your capabilities. If belief in an intelligent designer brings you comfort then please go in peace. This is not for you.
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Old 09-14-2012, 19:10   #56
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Originally Posted by Harper View Post
You've got that backwards, the big bang would be the effect and the singularity the cause. We can certainly accept effect without cause. Your post isn't very coherent.
If you read the post from Bert, my faux pas has already been noted. Sometimes, that happens when I am multitasking. For instance, I have music playing, am simultaneously writing a sermon and talking to my wife and children. Sometimes it taxes the mental CPU.

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They're trying to find how the singularity occurred but also stating it existed on its own accord? That makes no sense.
That is precisely my point.
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Old 09-14-2012, 19:13   #57
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Wow, you really have no idea what we are even talking about here. My apoligies, this is just simply beyond your capabilities. If belief in an intelligenter designer brings you comfort then please go in peace. This is not for you.
Thank you. I think that is one of the kindest things you have said in this type of a format. Here, and you thought that old spark of Christian love had been extringuished. And no, I am not being sarcastic, in the event you are wondering.

From my end of the metaphysical pond, I say God Bless you, sir.
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Old 09-14-2012, 19:21   #58
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From my end of the metaphysical pond, I say God Bless you, sir.
Just to be certain, there was no sarcasm on my part either. I fully understand that the path I walk is not for everyone. Be well.
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Old 09-14-2012, 19:53   #59
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... Like I said, the theory provides testable predictions. If the math is right then it predicts observable consequences for the universe today. ...
Here's a prediction: "science" will sooner than later pull another theory out of their atheist arses when this latest "we don't need no stinking God" intellectual cramp is found to be lacking.

"Branes"? Cripes, that's almost as funny as the dingbat Dick Dawkins claim a marble statue could, under the right circumstances, wave its hands.

From where did the branes arise?
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Old 09-14-2012, 19:53   #60
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Just to be certain, there was no sarcasm on my part either. I fully understand that the path I walk is not for everyone. Be well.
You have plenty of company on that wide path.
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Old 09-14-2012, 20:19   #61
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And the brief moment of mutual respect passes and we find ourselves right back in the mud.
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Old 09-14-2012, 20:52   #62
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The BBT really is. Layer upon layer of the more absurd is added to attempt to defend the undefendable. Okham's Razor becomes a butter knife. BBT gets challenged, then it is asserted that it is an infinitely dense singularity so dense that it exceeds time and space and always was. When that is shown to be absurd, a multiverse is suggested as infinite and we just inhabit one where this one contradiction is possible. When that is absurd, we are told branes did it. So, as far as I can tell there are three levels of nonsense to try to explain a singularity that somehow existed on its own accord. Again, declaring we should accept cause without effect.

Yes, BBT is inetellectual dishonesty in a desperate attempt to defend the undefensible to try to eliminate the concept of an Intelligent Designer.

I wonder what layer four will be?
Creationism.

Randy
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Old 09-14-2012, 20:53   #63
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I think you mean "accept effect without cause."
Getting this stuff completely backwards is kind of his forte.

Randy
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Old 09-14-2012, 20:54   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The BBT really is. Layer upon layer of the more absurd is added to attempt to defend the undefendable. Okham's Razor becomes a butter knife. BBT gets challenged, then it is asserted that it is an infinitely dense singularity so dense that it exceeds time and space and always was. When that is shown to be absurd, a multiverse is suggested as infinite and we just inhabit one where this one contradiction is possible. When that is absurd, we are told branes did it. So, as far as I can tell there are three levels of nonsense to try to explain a singularity that somehow existed on its own accord. Again, declaring we should accept cause without effect.
Your inability to understand it or refusal to acknowledge it makes it no less accurate. What "Caused" God?

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Yes, BBT is inetellectual dishonesty in a desperate attempt to defend the undefensible to try to eliminate the concept of an Intelligent Designer.
Who designed the designer?

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I wonder what layer four will be?
Were it left up to the uneducated... it'd be God.
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Old 09-14-2012, 21:02   #65
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You'll just have to watch the movie.

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Old 09-14-2012, 21:19   #66
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I wonder if there has ever been a time where the chasm between the most knowledgeable and the most ignorant has been so vast? Here we are with the best and brightest of us pushing the envelope of knowledge past even the very start of reality as we know it while simultaneously many of us still wallow in the desperate ignorance of an archaic goat herder's religion.
I was reading this at work today.

It is an awesome time to be alive.

As one who has just freed himself from the "goat herder's religion", just wanted to say I am enjoying your input here.

+1

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Old 09-14-2012, 21:30   #67
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You have plenty of company on that wide path.
And because I know exactly which "wide path" you speak of as a former christian, what percentage of the population do you think looks to relativistic elementary particle physics for its explanation of the origins of the universe? How does that contrast against the nearly 2 billion people that ascribe to creationism?
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Old 09-14-2012, 21:34   #68
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As one who has just freed himself from the "goat herder's religion", just wanted to say I am enjoying your input here.
You're welcome. It wasn't that long ago for me either. If you find yourself needing someone to talk to then just drop me a pm.

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Old 09-15-2012, 00:32   #69
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I was reading this at work today.

It is an awesome time to be alive.

As one who has just freed himself from the "goat herder's religion", just wanted to say I am enjoying your input here.

+1

.
Agreed. Not being a scientist I find his input most helpful.
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Old 09-15-2012, 00:48   #70
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Too many beans mixed with broccoli. God is Mexican, we are his chosen people. Don't hate, we have room for you too.


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Old 09-15-2012, 06:35   #71
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And the brief moment of mutual respect passes and we find ourselves right back in the mud.
Now you are being intellectually dishonest. Your previous input reveals the utter lack of respect you have for any of the adherents to the "goat herder religion". You are also proving your complete ignorance; Christ was not a goat herder.

Isn't the mud from where you sprang "just because"? At least I had the breath of spirit and life breathed into me. Regardless, we shall both return to dust. I will be living large and you will be weeping and gnashing your teeth.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:41   #72
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And because I know exactly which "wide path" you speak of as a former christian, what percentage of the population do you think looks to relativistic elementary particle physics for its explanation of the origins of the universe? How does that contrast against the nearly 2 billion people that ascribe to creationism?
I have no idea "what percentage" but any more than 0% is a shame.

Did you ever stop to consider that all this "evidence" of "elementary particle physics" which you believe explains origins is simply the remnants of God's creative work?

It's tragic you have exchanged the truth of the Creator for the lie of a creation.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:16   #73
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
Too many beans mixed with broccoli. God is Mexican, we are his chosen people. Don't hate, we have room for you too.


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That would make your god just a little over 500 years old then. Meztizos didn't exist until the Ibirian Spaniards interbred with the local native population.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:02   #74
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Here's a prediction: "science" will sooner than later pull another theory out of their atheist arses when this latest "we don't need no stinking God" intellectual cramp is found to be lacking.

"Branes"? Cripes, that's almost as funny as the dingbat Dick Dawkins claim a marble statue could, under the right circumstances, wave its hands.

From where did the branes arise?
Here is another prediction: A religious hater of this world, will strap a bomb on his own body, made by another religious hater of this world . He will walk into a crowded market with a mix of fear, hate, and faith, and he/she will hit the button.

The most dangerous part of a faith that believes the future is more important then the present, is this mentality that is built on some kind of future heaven.

At the least, science is working with this world instead of against it. Have faith, but don't hate the world you have been given. It is all you have.



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Last edited by NMG26; 09-15-2012 at 08:05..
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:11   #75
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You are also proving your complete ignorance; Christ was not a goat herder.
I was a believer for most of my adult life and studied the bible at a christian university. Ok, for completeness sake, it's a religion of a carpenter, some herders, some fishermen, at least one aristocrat and some nobility too. Better?

What was your point? Did you think this wasn't common knowledge?



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I will be living large and you will be weeping and gnashing your teeth.
You seem to relish this idea. Not very christian of you.
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JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
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