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Old 09-08-2012, 11:32   #21
diamondd2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter won View Post
The reason NYSP wanted a better caliber because a trooper was killed because his 9mm 124 grain standard pressure Gold Dot failed to stop the bad guy. The .45 G.A.P. was chosen because it performed the best with the 200 grain Speer Gold Dot during ballistics test. Many agencies adopted it because it was a savings to replace the older pistols. Many say it was a sweet deal for them to make the switch to the .45 GAP. Now ammo costs are driving them to a cheaper alternative in the 9mm.
Same old story. Then the 45 gap failed, so they switched to 40, then that failed once, then we moved to the 45acp and it didn't work once, so on and so forth.

The 9mm works just about everyday in NYC.

Last edited by diamondd2; 09-08-2012 at 11:33..
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:08   #22
fasteddie565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcruse View Post
I think that you missed the point. The change to 9mm will increase the skill and effectiviness of the officers. .45 (GAP or ACP) is a fine round. .40SW is also a fine round. However, when the most prestigious law inforcement agency publishs how the ideal pistol round should perform and every ammo maker build rounds in 9, .40SW and .45 GAP/ACP that meet the standard then the size choice makes little/no difference.

Also, we can all agree that shot placement is the number one factor in stopping the BG. More practice, more rounds in the gun and lower re-coil is nothing but good news.

The argument would be different if the gun was used for protection from large wild animals or hunting. But, most localities to not have thoes problems that need to be solved with hand guns. Hand guns are not replacements for rifles or shotguns.
I didn't miss the point at all. My point is politicians tout saving money on efforts like this, yet waste tax dollars on BS expenses. That was my point. Prestigious law enforcement agency? Now try and tell me that anything with a title like that is not rife with subjective opinions and manufacturer "input".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deye76 View Post
"Also, we can all agree that shot placement is the number one factor in stopping the BG."

It was never stated in the article, that deputies had a problem with shot placement usig GAP. It's only about the money. Nearly every paragraph talks about dollars. The notion that one will practice more just because of a change in caliber is a joke. An officer who wants to maintain profiency will do so, no matter the caliber.
Deye76 makes my point.

A cop that wants to stay proficient will do so, regardless of the ammo. Those of you that perpetuate internet drivel about soaring costs of 45 GAP are uninformed. I consistently buy it for $18 a box, mostly from GT members. It is also cheaper to reload than 45 ACP (Small pistol primers)

Ultimately, pistol selection is much like shoe selection. You can tout shot placement (I do agree with you on that) penetration, caliber, velocity, whatever, at the end of the day, there is a good chance your shoe will not fit my foot and your pistol will not fit my needs.
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Last edited by fasteddie565; 09-09-2012 at 07:09..
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:21   #23
barth
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With FBI Protocol testing, new high tech bonded ammo
and a positive actual track record from the street.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more department switching to 9mm.

Last edited by barth; 09-09-2012 at 08:22..
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:38   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barth View Post
With FBI Protocol testing, new high tech bonded ammo
and a positive actual track record from the street.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more department switching to 9mm.
That premium self defense 9mm ammo can cost more than JHP 45GAP ammo.

http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/9mm?sort=1&group=2

price per round

Federal Power-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point 147 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.35

Federal Jacketed Hollow Point 115 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.43

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point +P 124 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.55


Federal Premium Personal Defense Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point 135 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.70

Federal Premium Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point 147 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.80

Hornady Hornady Personal Defense XTP TAP-FPD Jacketed Hollow Point 147 Jacketed Hollow Point $1.38
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:08   #25
ChiefWPD
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Ammo cost can vary greatly with dept size. If large enough, and buying ammo by the millions of rounds per year (NYPD fires around ten million rounds a year) prices are quite good.

Smaller depts, not so much...
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