anyone ever see a jsp for the 10 mm

ctious · 08-19-2012, 20:59

I would love to find a jsp for my 10. Hp is good for defence and smaller game. Hard cast is great for penetration. I would love to have a jsp to get an in between bullet.

Anyone else fell the same?

_The_Shadow · 08-19-2012, 21:25

With some of the best JHP ammo and bullets there really is no need when you consider the reliability of feeding and performance.

I load a lot of cast bullets (TC, SWC & HP) and that alone adds to performance flexability.

Taterhead · 08-19-2012, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctious

I would love to find a jsp for my 10. Hp is good for defence and smaller game. Hard cast is great for penetration. I would love to have a jsp to get an in between bullet.

Anyone else fell the same?

For me an XTP fills that "in-between" slot about perfectly: deep penetration with a moderately-sized and consistent mushroom. It is the jack-of-all trades bullet, in my opinion.

Yondering · 08-20-2012, 00:20

What taterhead and Shadow said. Or, use soft cast bullets with gas checks. Either a flat nose or very shallow cone shaped hollow point (like, shallower than it is wide) will do what you're after, with the right alloy.

I've personally never used a 10mm JSP.

nickE10mm · 08-20-2012, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctious

I would love to find a jsp for my 10. Hp is good for defence and smaller game. Hard cast is great for penetration. I would love to have a jsp to get an in between bullet.

Anyone else fell the same?

I would also love to at least try out a JSP in 10mm. The only one I know of is the one that's loaded in CorBon's 10mm Hunter load ... its a 180gr Soft Point at about 1300fps I believe. Wish I could buy the bullet separately just to play around.

ctious · 08-20-2012, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yondering

What taterhead and Shadow said. Or, use soft cast bullets with gas checks. Either a flat nose or very shallow cone shaped hollow point (like, shallower than it is wide) will do what you're after, with the right alloy.

I've personally never used a 10mm JSP.

That is my plan when the gb mold is done. But I wonder how finding the right mix to be soft enough but not lead the barrel.

I just think a jsp in the 10 mm would make a great hunting bullet. In other handguns the jsp is great for hunting. I don't see it being any different in the 10 mm.

Yondering · 08-20-2012, 18:56

ctious, try the Lee 175 TC bullet (or the very similar Lyman or RCBS version) cast from 25-1 pure lead and tin. This will work very well for hunting and launched at ~1300fps will act like a JSP. It may be a little soft for good accuracy in your barrel, if so, add clip on wheel weights to the mix until you get the hardness you need. (You're getting antimony from the wheel weights to harden the alloy; you could also just add antimony if that's easier for you.)

If you're using a stock Glock barrel you'll probably need a bit harder alloy for good accuracy.

I would use gas checks on these (plain base style). Side note - Pat Marlin is now producing his 40 PB Checkmaker to make your own plain base checks from soda can aluminum. I changed my order at the last minute to a 9mm version, but it works pretty well once you figure out how to make it run best. Or just buy the checks pre-made from James Sage.

ctious · 08-20-2012, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yondering

ctious, try the Lee 175 TC bullet (or the very similar Lyman or RCBS version) cast from 25-1 pure lead and tin. This will work very well for hunting and launched at ~1300fps will act like a JSP. It may be a little soft for good accuracy in your barrel, if so, add clip on wheel weights to the mix until you get the hardness you need. (You're getting antimony from the wheel weights to harden the alloy; you could also just add antimony if that's easier for you.)

If you're using a stock Glock barrel you'll probably need a bit harder alloy for good accuracy.

I would use gas checks on these (plain base style). Side note - Pat Marlin is now producing his 40 PB Checkmaker to make your own plain base checks from soda can aluminum. I changed my order at the last minute to a 9mm version, but it works pretty well once you figure out how to make it run best. Or just buy the checks pre-made from James Sage.

I have that lee mold. I have played will it. Cast some real soft ones. The problem I ran into is that when I would get hard enough to penetrate like I wanted the bullet did not flatten like I wanted. I think it's just the form of it. It's just not designed to do what I want it to. More or less I want a soft tip that will expand some. But the base needs to hold strong. A jacked soft point does that. I just don't think I can get a cast to do that. The group buy we are part of should get me close with the shallow hp pin. I think.

Yondering · 08-20-2012, 21:05

Yes, the shallow HP pin is the right idea. If I get time later I'll post pictures of some 45 Auto hollow points I cast with a shallow pin.

You can form a shallow hollow point in those Lee 175 TC bullets during the sizing process if you make a pointed top punch for your lubersizer press. I made one from a 1/4" bolt, and ground the head down to the shape I want.

It's all just a matter of balancing hardness and meplat or hollow point dimensions. No expanding bullet, cast or jacketed, is going to penetrate like a hard cast though. If you want some expansion, you have to sacrifice some penetration.

ctious · 08-20-2012, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yondering

Yes, the shallow HP pin is the right idea. If I get time later I'll post pictures of some 45 Auto hollow points I cast with a shallow pin.

You can form a shallow hollow point in those Lee 175 TC bullets during the sizing process if you make a pointed top punch for your lubersizer press. I made one from a 1/4" bolt, and ground the head down to the shape I want.

It's all just a matter of balancing hardness and meplat or hollow point dimensions. No expanding bullet, cast or jacketed, is going to penetrate like a hard cast though. If you want some expansion, you have to sacrifice some penetration.

I don't have a lubesizer yet. Darn it. Lol. Working on a deal on a star sizer as we speak.

Yondering · 08-20-2012, 21:30

Can't do that with a star sizer either. They are cool though. You'll probably need a standard Lyman lubesizer to use plain base gas checks too, another member here reported they didn't work well in his Star.

ctious · 08-20-2012, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yondering

Can't do that with a star sizer either. They are cool though. You'll probably need a standard Lyman lubesizer to use plain base gas checks too, another member here reported they didn't work well in his Star.

Now your making me re think what I.need. lol.

Any Cal. · 08-21-2012, 00:46

You could get into swaging and tailor the load to your use. I like the idea of the cast softpoints, using a piece of dead soft shot or something in the nose of the mold, letting it melt, then pouring regular alloy over it. You could drill hollowpoints w/ a countersink for a wide, shallow cavity if you weren't making that many, depending on the use. Maybe knife cut noses so the bullets spread a bit on impact. I've read of guys using paper just a bit into the nose between the mold halves to make a split tip. I don't know about any of those personally, I just like shooting heavy, big meplat boolits fast and calling it good...:-)

Yondering · 08-21-2012, 23:38

ctious, here's some pics for illustration of what I'm talking about with the shallow wide hollow point. Of course, expansion on both of these is more than what you're looking for, and they're in 45 not 10mm, but it illustrates what can be done by making the hollow point cavity shallower. I'm still experimenting with this design in 10mm, trying different alloys to get the right amount of expansion at higher velocity.

The two bullets on the right are 200gr 45 ACP from my Mihec HP mold, both cast from 25-1 alloy. The one on the right has the standard deep hollow point and was fired into water jugs at 800 fps. The one in the middle has a shallow hollow point (I ground down a spare penta pin), and was fired into water jugs as 1100 fps. Incidentally, this one expands the same amount in water jugs or newspaper; it never gets to the point where the mushroom folds back on itself.

The one on the left is a 160gr 10mm with the same shallow hollow point (same pin as the 45), but is cast from 7/7/2 (ww/pb/sn). This one does really impressive stuff on water jugs at 1500 fps and still penetrates deep (4+ jugs, shreds the first 2), but needs to be a little harder for better accuracy in my carbine.

I think a slightly shallower hollow point, cast from straight WW, should act like the JSP you're looking for; small amount of expansion but still good penetration.

Carphunter · 08-29-2012, 21:41

I know it doesn't help... but a friend once showed me a box of 10mm/40 jsp bullets he had from way back when. i don't remember the manufacturer. from what I remember... they were pretty much exactly like the corbons.
if they weren't so pricey, i'd shoot the loaded corbons all the time as my deer load. my g20 with factory 6" did like the load.

Any Cal. · 08-31-2012, 14:51

Maybe already mentioned, but the thought occured to me that you may be able to procure .41 JSPs, use case lube on them, and resize. Never tried it but it may be worth a shot.

dm1906 · 08-31-2012, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Any Cal.

Maybe already mentioned, but the thought occured to me that you may be able to procure .41 JSPs, use case lube on them, and resize. Never tried it but it may be worth a shot.

I've been working on this for a while, with mostly heavy plated (magnum) bullets. It's worked well with 210 gr. bullets. However, I wouldn't try this with "real" jacketed bullets, as jackets are much harder than lead or plated lead, and the copper jacket is more elastic than lead (the copper springs back, and the lead is left loose in the jacket). On the same note, a .41 Mag LSWC or LFP sized to .401" makes a fantastic .40/10mm LWFN.

Yondering · 08-31-2012, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Any Cal.

Maybe already mentioned, but the thought occured to me that you may be able to procure .41 JSPs, use case lube on them, and resize. Never tried it but it may be worth a shot.

I think you could do it with a push-through sizer, I've sized .40 FMJ's down to .358" in a polished Lee die just to see if it could be done. It did take a lot of effort. You'd need a custom sizer made though, since Lee only sells a .401", and you'd probably want .400". There are a couple guys on the castboolits forum that make these.

Also, the .41 bullets may be designed for higher velocity, and might not expand much at 10mm velocity. It would be interesting to try though.