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Old 08-11-2012, 07:12   #1
H&K .45 AUTO
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Talk to me about the Smith & Wesson SW99

Gents,

Several years ago, I remember seeing ads for the SW99, as well as the Walther P99, and I kept telling myself that I wanted to buy one. Unfortunately, I never got around to it before the pistols were discontinued as something else always came up that I just had to have more.

Well, fast forward a few years, and now I have one. I traded my way into one yesterday that looks darned near brand new. It's the full size .40 S&W model, and came with the following:

Original box/paperwork, 6 factory 12-round magazines, several different sights that can be swapped out, 3 backstraps, and a nice leather holster.

Anyway, I really like some of the features on this pistol, such as the mag release which reminds me of my H&K's, the decocker feature which is pretty unique on a striker fired gun, the fact that in single action mode the trigger can be "staged" for a shorter pull, and just the general appearance of the weapon.

On the downside... The trigger pull seems to be heavy in both single and double action, with a lot of take-up before breaking.

All in all though, I think I will end up liking this new (to me) pistol a lot, and was just wondering if any of you guys have experience with these guns. There seems to be very limited information about them on the internet, so any feedback is appreciated.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:08   #2
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I had one in 9mm. It couldn't get thru one mag without a failure to feed. It was not even close in quality to the Walther version.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:02   #3
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Try to determine the manufacture date from the serial number. I don't remember if the SW99 uses the same numbering scheme as the P99.

The earliest versions were not good. When Walther saw some, they called Smith and told them to stop the line. Walther engineers came over and made adjustments and improvement to the production line and processes to make them a little better. That first 2k or so, not many of us Walther fans would want.

If you got one of the later runs, it's not a bad pistol, but comparing it side by side with a P99, you can tell the difference. BUT, they do come in .45ACP

Plus, the recoil will tear your arm off, and because of the extremely high bore axis, you can't shoot it indoors, you'll tear holes in your ceiling.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:28   #4
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There are probably hours of posts about this subject scattered among the forums.

Put simply, the SW99 is a P99 made using a S&W slide & barrel. By that I mean that Walther made the frame (with some minor cosmetic and ergonomics changes requested by S&W) and provided the same parts for assembly of the frame and slide that are used in the P99. Only the bare slide and barrel were made by S&W. The rest are the same Walther parts used in the Walther models.

S&W engineers helped to finally identify the "early slide stop" issues that affected both the P9940 & the SW9940 in the early years. Walther took the info and had Mec-Gar redesign the .40 S&W magazine body & follower. (S&W also requested a heavier slide stop spring at one point, but it didn't completely resolve the issue.)

A couple of the changes requested by S&W for the SW99 frames were eventually adopted in the P99 series, such as the elimination of the hooked frame tang (which pressed down into the web of the shooter's hands), and the more universal accessory rail).

Personally, I liked how the S&W barrels were revised during production to incorporate a machined flat spot on the bottom, toward the rear, where the recoil spring would rub during unlocking/locking. The barrels also received some different finishing in the way of chamber mouths/feedramps, barrel tabs, muzzle crowns, etc as SW99 production continued.

Walther continued to revise and refine their 99 design. Some changes were easily noticed ... trigger guard, frame ergos, slide contours, mag catch levers, etc. Some of the continuing refinements and improvements aren't easily visible, especially inside the frame ... such as the dimensions of the frame where the sear housing is seated and the replacement of the small steel post used as the trigger bar guide (in the bottom of the sear housing block) with an adjustable steel lever.

This shows some early and later revised sear housing blocks, where you can see the difference in the length of the hollow tube/pin. (There's been a further revision replacing the steel post used as the trigger bar guide with a lever, though.)
Click the image to open in full size.

Overall, the 99 series is a pretty good service-type pistol.

I've been an owner & users for several years, as well as an armorer (3 classes/recerts, including one where the armorer manual showed the weird configuration demanded by the NJSP, called the SW99NJ - there's a longer story about that gun, but this isn't the thread for it).

I carried one for a few years and helped support about 50+ SW99's for some time, both issued and personally-owned. I know of some SW99's that have seen several thousand rounds fired, and a couple which have seen more than 60K rounds fired. I've fired many thousands of rounds through various models, including over 12K rounds through my own SW999c (9mm compact with the AS mode sear housing block).

As an armorer I've repaired both SW99 & P99 pistols.

I always felt the 99 series never received the appreciation it deserved in this country, but then there were a number of other plastic pistols which were competing with it, and at a lower price point. It probably didn't help that Walther didn't ship as many units here as potential owners might have wished, but at one point I was told by someone at Walther America that Walther was focusing a lot of its attention on its international sales. Pistols and parts were sent here on a schedule of Walther's devising.

BTW, as long as the used SW9940 you bought has the revised mag bodies, they ought to be fine. You can still order springs (and followers) from S&W's Walther America business. (The agreement between S&W and Walther expires in 2013, although I imagine S&W will continue to carry some basic parts due to their limited lifetime warranty support - to the original owner - of the SW99 & SW990L models.)

This image shows the revised mag body (left) and the original one (right). You want the ones on the left. In the P99's the followers were different shades of light blue as the followers were revised.
Click the image to open in full size.

Personally, I always tended to favor the 99 series chambered in 9mm (much as I do the Glock).

The triggers seem to become a bit lighter & smooth as the guns are used. The standard sear mode (what Walther presently calls the Anti-Stress/AS) is my personal favorite, although some folks claim to prefer the Quick Action/QA (the SW990L used the QA sear block, but S&W didn't use a slide with the reduced size field-stripping button like Walther used in their QA models).

I've never come across a P990 (what Walther presently calls the P99 DAO), which was a true DAO configuration.

Don't try to detail/armorer strip the frame. The locking block pin is pressed into place with a press (although armorers are taught how to remove it with a roll pin punch and ball peen hammer). The only time it really has to be removed is if a slide stop spring has to be replaced. Take care not to snag the rear end of the slide stop spring during cleaning. (S&W finally sent some Walther closed loop slide stop springs to at least one agency, because some of their people didn't seem able to stop themselves from snagging & bending the springs.

The Walther spring has a shorter, closed loop end, while the spring made for the S&W models is longer and has a hooked end (which you can see above the rear of the slide stop lever tab).
Click the image to open in full size.

There are some other little tips to keep in mind to avoid damaging the 99's when performing armorer level inspections & repairs, too.

The sear housing block is NOT an assembly intended for armorer level disassembly & service, although armorers used to be told how to replace one spring & lever (which could disassemble itself during shipping of a replacement sear housing block ).

Also, nowadays the striker assembly isn't considered something armorers should disassemble.

I happen to like the way the extractor can be removed and serviced/cleaned) independent of the striker assembly being removed from the slide, although some care must be used when reinstalling the 2 plungers & springs.

Congrats. Enjoy the SW9940.
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Last edited by fastbolt; 08-12-2012 at 02:11..
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Old 08-11-2012, 16:28   #5
H&K .45 AUTO
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fastbolt.....

Thank you, sir for the VERY informative post! From the looks of it, my pistol appears to have seen very little use, and was maintained in exceptional condition. As for the magazines... Looks like I got an even mix of the old, and the new. I'll carry the new ones, and delegate the old to range use only.

Regardless, the more I handle this pistol and examine the way it is designed/put together, I am amazed that these can be had for so little these days. Hopefully, I can get to the range with it soon, and give it a whirl. That will really tell the tale.
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Old 08-11-2012, 17:25   #6
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I have no experience with the S&W version.

The Walther version is great and I thought they were the same pistol.
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Old 08-11-2012, 17:43   #7
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I can't speak for the .40 models but I used to have a SW99 in .45 ACP that I can comment on. Over the years, I've aquired a lot of .45 ACP pistols in my eternal search to find my "USP killer", something that would have the performance, accuracy, and reliability to knock the .45 king off his hill. Well, the SW99 ain't it...not even close. It couldn't even top the lower priced EAA Witness or Ruger P90 down a peg or two.
Where to begin? Well, accuracy was the worst out of any .45 in my collection. I have a theory that this was mainly due in part to the creepy, gritty trigger it had. Of course, that brings up the next point, which trigger pull, it has 3 of them! There was the long, heavy gritty DA trigger pull, the mushy but shorter lighter SA pull then there was the long, gritty but light pre-cocked mainspring but the triggers forward trigger pull. Not really sure what you would call this trigger or what other model might be similar. I just got another attempt at an 'HK-killer" in the form of a Taurus 24/7 OSS that might have a similar trigger but from what I remember about the SW99 and comparing it to the brief handling of the 24/7 OSS in the store, I think the Taurus trigger is still better than the SW99 had. The striker is decocked by pressing on an awkward decocking plate on the slide that I didn't care for either. Along the lines of triggers and trigger pulls, the USP-style magazine release was one thing I really liked about it...when it wasn't abrading my trigger finger when I squeezed the trigger. I was able to file down the rough edges though so that cured that problem. Another problem I couldn't cure was the failure of the magazines to reliably lock the slide open when empty. If it was 1 magazine, I would chock it off to a bad magazine but it did it with all 3 mags I had and it would never do it consistantly so you just never knew when it would work and when your slide was forward on an empty chamber until you pulled the trigger again.
So by now I'm sure you are thinking I am bashing on the SW99 but really I'm not...well, ok, so maybe I am but it's not something it doesn't deserve! There are some things I liked about it like the Walther P99 style interchangable backstraps which was still a very new concept in those days. It also went bang every time, sort of like a Sigma I suppose. The final disposition of my old SW99 was that it went down the road at the first oppertunity when I needed some trading fodder for a better firearm. Now maybe the .40 S&W version is better and I really hope you have better luck than I did with mine.
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Old 08-11-2012, 19:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comedian View Post
I had one in 9mm. It couldn't get thru one mag without a failure to feed. It was not even close in quality to the Walther version.
From what I've gathered so far... Isn't the SW99 essentially the same gun as the P99? Even to the extent that Walther builds everything on the S&W with the exception of the slide, and barrel?

I don't quite see how the Walther branded pistol would somehow be worlds ahead of the Smith with regard to quality if this is all true.

Don't get me wrong. I love my German made H&K's, old school German Sig's, etc. I don't, however, see the functional/quality difference you mention. What specific quality issues did you have with your SW99 that cause it to be not even close to the P99?
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Old 08-11-2012, 20:23   #9
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Yeah, I was also rather unimpressed and disappointed when I had the chance to use a SW9945 for some extended T&E.

I'd been waiting for it to arrive ever since we'd heard a little of the backstory of what had been involved, and how long it had taken, for S&W to convince Walther to finally design a larger frame for a 99 pistol that could be chambered in .45 ACP.

Anyway, the height and girth of the SW9945 grip frame actually made the USP 45 seem like a handy sized grip frame. (No small trick)

I found the triggers of both the SW9945 and the USP 45 to be similarly luckluster (I know, they're both just intended to be "service grade" triggers ).

The inherent accuracy was similar for the SW9945 and the USP 45, but I had to work harder due to the grip size, girth & ergos with the SW9945.

It was also rather "sproingy" in its cycling. The way the RSA was sprung, I imagine. (Technical term )

No feeding stoppages or other functioning issues noted (by myself or reported by other shooters during T&E), but nobody seemed overly enthralled by it, either. Large & ungainly. I passed on adding one to my collection (even as a long time .45 user & enthusiast).

BTW, the revised .40 magazine bodies have that indented flat spot on the left side, next to the cutout for the slide stop lever tab, to help prevent the prevent the bullet noses from being displaced too far leftward under the sharp recoil of the .40 S&W. In the original mag bodies it was sometimes possible for bullet noses to wiggle a bit too far left during recoil and bump the slide stop lever's tab upward, causing "early slide stop".

The 99's backstrap inserts were ground-breaking for the time, but the "hump" always seemed to miss making the small or medium size inserts exactly fit my hand ... except in the compact, where the larger of the 2 inserts feels as though it was made for ME. (The M&P's inserts are significantly better, since they adjust both backstrap and palmswell size.)

Good guns. Typical German engineering (and a bit of over-engineering). I can say that, being half German.
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Last edited by fastbolt; 08-11-2012 at 20:24..
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