[deeHKman]

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

I have a USP 45, not an HK45

I might sell a Glock to buy an HK45, though...

USP .45 is what got me into HK aloong time ago. But here is a pic. of my HK45 to get you thru..ride's in a Milt Spark's VMII,



By deehkman at 2012-05-18

[Gombey]

are hk's really superior?

yep!!

[agb]

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

The thing with Kahr and the NYPD had nothing to do with reliability.

Nano has problems with some ammo. Never heard of that with Shields or Kahrs.

Beretta Nano Recomended Ammo - YouTube

Where are the extended mags for the Nano?

You are alone not hearing about it.

Very early production Nanos had problems with light load practice ammo. After March production went out, no more problems even with practice ammo.

The removal of the Kahr PM9 had EVERYTHING to do with a lack of reliability AND other issues; later models have less of it, still the NYPD recommends other weapons for their backups. The later Kahr issue was with a trigger problem. Earlier reports had jamming, FTF, stove pipes, other issues.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-205077.html

Whatever, if you never hear of anything doesn't mean that others never hear of anything. We do and we report it as we see it.

The Kahr is a nice pistol that was an original in its time the same way the NANO is an original in our time with 20 years of evolution to back it and the experience of a 500 year old company to guarantee it. Of course, I sold my Kahr PM9 after the trigger spring broke, the gun jammed several times, and assembly and disassembly became more pain than pleasure. I'm not a masochist.

One of my fav companies is Smith&Wesson, I own the BG380 and use it as a backup. My favorite backup. Many reports suggest the Shield drops magazines for no other reason than it wants to.

The Beretta NANO has a large dimple and other magazine enhancements that make dropping out impossible. Moreover, the NANO is entirely reliable, as the video below proves.

If there's a FTF, consider its your fault. I fired 180 or so 115 grains after having degreased the pistol out of the box, no lube, my first shot FTFd because I limp-wristed the pistol and it was just out of the box - using cheap aluminum ammo.

After that not a single failure and after that I shot two more boxes of DPX that printed at 3" at 15 feet...while I was exhausted from a short sleep night.

Enjoy your Kahr, the rest of us will enjoy our 20 year newer design and far better engineered and built Nanos.

Watch here how many failures the Nano has:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=VXxpkM7q_2E

[Armchair Commando]

Originally Posted by NEOH212

I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

What can a hk do that a glock cannot do in a civilian environment for ccw purposes?

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[barth]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

What can a hk do that a glock cannot do in a civilian environment for ccw purposes?

Have double strike capability.

[RedNine]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

What can a hk do that a glock cannot do in a civilian environment for ccw purposes?

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Some of us prefer a single action trigger.

[professorpinki]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

What can a hk do that a glock cannot do in a civilian environment for ccw purposes?

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Um, well the HK doesn't spit rounds at the user, which is something that the Glock tends to do as of late.

[magiaaron]

I own any number of handguns -- among them the P30 and Glock 19. Those, out of the two lineups, are about as close as they get for size. The Glock runs and does a great job. The P30 ended up with me because of the ergonomics. It's that simple. It is the best feeling gun I've ever owned. It mates with my hand perfectly. It's trigger is like dragging a tractor trailer through the mud in double action, but single action is quite nice. And, even with that long, awful DA pull, the gun still spits the bullet out and plasters those 8" steel plates well.

I will always sell more Glocks than HKs, but when I put a P30 in a customer's hand, the response is always the same -- they can feel the difference. People that have not shot before and are untainted by branding can FEEL the difference. Now, for reliability, shootability, and everything else... I don't have statistics for that, but I've never, personally, had either one give me trouble.

-magiaaron

[majette]

Originally Posted by RedNine

Some of us prefer a single action trigger.

usp series and hk45/45c, variant 9, cocked and locked.

[USMC03Grunt]

Originally Posted by TheStreetKing

What can a hk do that a glock cannot do in a civilian environment for ccw purposes?

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Have the ability to get a heavy glove (not some sort of "namby-pamby" 20-30 degrees but 20-30 degrees BELOW zero degrees) freely into the trigger without causing an ND and allow the trigger to reset. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that already but you must have missed it, eh?

[Pro-Hunter]

No. No they are not.

[hoghunter82]

Originally Posted by Pro-Hunter

No. No they are not.

Yes. Yes they are.


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[BuckyP]

Originally Posted by Pro-Hunter

No. No they are not.

Originally Posted by hoghunter82

Yes. Yes they are.

Nothing like lucid, intelligent, well thought-out debate.

[up1911fan]

I don't know yet, but a P2000 is on my short list.

[deeHKman]

Originally Posted by hoghunter82

Yes. Yes they are.


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Yes. yes i agree!!..........

[USMC03Grunt]

Originally Posted by Pro-Hunter

No. No they are not.

Well, my .45 collection so far consists of:

S&W SW99 (went down the road years ago...it was a POS)
Ruger P90
EAA Witness
Auto Ordnance 1911
Sig P220
XD-45 Tactical
Kimber Royal carry 1911
Springfield WWII USGI 1911
S&W M&P45F
Glock 21
Taurus 24/7 OSS
H&K USP-45

While the M&P has only a week of ownership to it and I just got the Taurus today (won't be able to pick it up until I get back from my TDY in 3 weeks) I have yet to find an "H&K-killer." I really have no interest in buying a $2-3K 1911 and I still have yet to try an FNP (that needs to be fixed as well...maybe next time) but so far, nothing I have has yet to beat out the USP. No, I love them all like my children (well, not the SW99) and have no plans of getting rid of them. They all have their good and bad points but when I look at the overall scores, the H&K is the superior performer.

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by NEOH212

I'm yet to see anything that disputes that fact. No other polymer gun has a thing on HK. HK is the best poly gun on the market period. All others take a back seat!

I agree.

[cowboy1964]

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-205077.html

^^^ If you're going to link to a thread to prove your point at least find one that ACTUALLY DOES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahr_K9

In 1998 it was approved for off duty and backup carry by the New York City Police Department (NYPD) but as of December 2011, the Kahr K9 is no longer authorized by the NYPD. The Kahr Company was not able to increase the trigger pull to the NYPD specifications


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/124...no.html&page=2

So far what I've seen of the Nano isn't encouraging. Everyone I know who bought one has experienced problems with it.


More evidence of 115gr ammo problems.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...highlight=nano

[Noles26]

Originally Posted by BuckyP

Let us know.

Well I accepted the trade, (had some cash thrown my way), and now I own a 2012 H&K USP .45.

All I can say is WOW.

This is my first H&K , my first time firing a H&K and it has made my mind up for me.

I'll never buy another Glock / Polymer make again.

The first thing you notice is how it fits your hand. (6 '1 205 lbs / 9 inch hand) It just makes sense.
The gun's finish is flawless. And did I mention the grip?

Range report: Perfect
500 rounds of Federal Premium HST down range.
-Brass went the way it was suppose to
-zero malfunctions
- Perfect

The pistol out performs every Glock I have and nearly all my 1911s. (Nothing out does my STI Perfect 10 )

Love this firearm. Now I just need about 10 more magazines.

If you've ever "thought" about owning an H&K, GO BUY ONE.

If you don't like it, call me, I'll buy it off you

[Colorado4Wheel]

When they design a gun with a Bore Axis that appears to have been conceived in the last 30 years I will consider them. Till then it's just high priced "Plastic Fantastic".

[H&K 4 LIFE]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

When they design a gun with a Bore Axis that appears to have been conceived in the last 30 years I will consider them. Till then it's just high priced "Plastic Fantastic".

Hammer fired handguns will naturally have a higher bore axis than striker fired handguns.

In addition, whether or not a high bore axis compromises the "shoot-ability" of a pistol is also highly debatable.

The way Todd G. can shoot a P30/HK45 or the way Bruce Gray can shoot a SIG leads me to believe it's alot more about the abilities of the shooter then the height of the pistol's bore axis.

[Colorado4Wheel]

It's just basic mechanics. Lower is better. CZ and others figured out how to do it. It just seems HK doesn't even try. The spent a lot of energy on other things but left that alone. It would be an improvement if they addressed it and wouldn't hurt a thing.

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

It's just basic mechanics. Lower is better. CZ and others figured out how to do it. It just seems HK doesn't even try. The spent a lot of energy on other things but left that alone. It would be an improvement if they addressed it and wouldn't hurt a thing.

Actually, I don't think its as big a deal as weight of pistol. I shoot 357 sig in a sig229 and glock 31/32. Sig is MUCH higher than glock/cz and shoots quite a bit softer than the glock. I'll take hk 's excellant quality over glock/cz anyday. Higher axis or not.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Originally Posted by dpadams6

Actually, I don't think its as big a deal as weight of pistol. I shoot 357 sig in a sig229 and glock 31/32. Sig is MUCH higher than glock/cz and shoots quite a bit softer than the glock. I'll take hk 's excellant quality over glock/cz anyday. Higher axis or not.

And if it was lower it would be even better.

[USMC03Grunt]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

When they design a gun with a Bore Axis that appears to have been conceived in the last 30 years I will consider them. Till then it's just high priced "Plastic Fantastic".

Sounds to me like you have limited to no experience with them. Is this a fair assumption? Several years ago, I ran a back-to-back-to-back-to-back test with several of my .45 autos including both Glock and H&K as well as Ruger, Sig, EAA, 1911s and S&W. The tests were performed with several people of varying degrees of shooting experience firing each of these weapons. What did I learn about it? Well, the Glock did have the fastest split times due to the low bore axis. How fast? About .02 to .03 seconds faster on average. Really, I don't consider it to be that much of an improvement to the level of any real relevance. However, both the USP and Sig easily outscored the Glock due to better accuracy and in a couple cases, grip size made it a problem as well for some of the shooters. In the accuracy department, again the USP and P220 easily beat out the Glock as did the Ruger P90, 1911s and the low priced EAA Witness. The only gun that displayed worse accuracy than the Glock was the old SW99 I used to have.
Now that my colletion has grown a bit since those days I my have to repeat this test again with the new additions and see which one wins the king of the hill title and dethrone the USP as the reigning champion.