[NickC50310]

I would prefer to have something with a bit more punch than .380. I used to carry my full size FNX .40 and it was just too much. Way too heavy, big grip that printed often. I just got an XDm .40 compact and its pretty much perfect. Completely invisible on me and it doesnt make my pants fall down. I have 12 rounds of .40 Winchester 180GR Bonded PDX in it and 16 rounds in the magazine on the other side.

[LOCHFAL]

Originally Posted by Halojumper

I've always thought that, for the overwhelming majority of situations, that mantra is ridiculous, for similar reasons as to what you expressed.

I've always thought that there is a happy medium on the size and caliber of handgun carried, I'm still not sure I've found it but right now I'm really liking the Glock 27.

As far as the fighting your way to a rifle or shotgun, I agree but I also feel that this is more valid in your own space, home or vehichle campsite etc. Not out in public of course.

[forresme]

With the LCP or Kel-Tec 380 I feel lucky if I can hit anything much beyond 6 feet. They are the most uncomfortable guns to shoot I have ever seen. Granted, they are very small, light, and easy to pocket carry, but for personal defense I feel much more confident with either my Kahr PM-9, Glock 26, or S&W 442. With the .380 it is too much of a toss up.

[Wolfdad]

Placement over caliber every time. A 380 COM or head betters any other caliber anywhere else on the body.

[Bilbo Bagins]

I do love these caliber wars.

I don't understand why people consider the .380 anemic when Nazis and police in europe have been pretty successful with the round.

Heck some 50 years ago people didn't have problems with .32S&W longs and .32acp as police and defensive rounds.

Its all about shot placement.

Like G26239 mentioned the size difference between a .380 pocket gun like the LCP and a .38snubbie or a compact 9mm is VERY signicant.

You are more likely to ALWAYS be armed with a small .380 pocket gun. Better have a gun than not.

[gwalchmai]

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

I don't understand why people consider the .380 anemic when Nazis and police in europe have been pretty successful with the round.

NB, yooropeeans use pistols as more of a badge than a combat weapon. But I agree that mouseguns can be useful.

[wjv]

My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

[Bilbo Bagins]

Originally Posted by wjv

My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

Thaty is what I like about my .380 pocket gun too. If someone is knocking at the door at midnight I don't have to freak out the kids by running down the stairs with my G17.

It happened the other day. Knock at the door superlate. I grabbed my 380 and stuck it the pocket of my shorts. Found out it was just the neighbor telling me my wife left her car headlights on. I was armed in case it was something bad, but my neighbor, my kids and the wife were none the wiser.

[tongix]

THe German s use .32 cal in Walther sized pistols , those go popular back to the 30s and .40s . But today the badguys are big wide bodies mofos. Most of them are into drugs and cocaine. Its about right you up your caliber choice nowadays to something like 9 mm Makarov or higher. A 250 lb hunk of raging muscle doesnt go down that easily .Plus most wear some thick clothes and undergarment. A .380 FMJ is what most experts recommend. A premium ammo is also a must for .380 users. Thats my take....

[G26AZ]

Originally Posted by wjv

My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

Thats what I like about my KelTec 380. When I get compfy for the night, I usually wear gym shorts and a T-shirt. The .45 Commander goes in the bedside holster, and the KelTec goes in the pocket of my shorts and doesn't make them sag. With the little clip-on Uncle Mikes nylon holster, I can even wear it in just my underwear (erase mental image!) if I want to.

[Caver 60]

Originally Posted by forresme

With the LCP or Kel-Tec 380 I feel lucky if I can hit anything much beyond 6 feet. They are the most uncomfortable guns to shoot I have ever seen. Granted, they are very small, light, and easy to pocket carry, but for personal defense I feel much more confident with either my Kahr PM-9, Glock 26, or S&W 442. With the .380 it is too much of a toss up.

If you can't hit with it, don't carry it. But you might want to take a look at some of the post and threads from M2 Carbine. He does some pretty impressive LONG RANGE work with mouse guns including 380. And I'm a great believer in long range practice as well as 'bad breath range' practice.

I'm not as good as M2 Carbine, but I'm no slouch with my P3AT's and Kahr mouse pistols. I've killed many small four legged moving varmints with my P3AT over the years. I know they were not shooting back. But I figure if I can hit something like that, I can probably hit a larger target if I don't loose my cool. I regularly practice at out to 50 yards or more with my mouse guns, including the P3AT.

And I consider my P3AT to be a pretty easy to shoot pistol. The recoil is negligible to my way of thinking, but I'm used to magnum handgun shooting.

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

We desire to optimize the properties of expansion and penetration, but in these mouse calibers we can't get reliable expansion. Since I can only have one of the desired properties I'll maximize penetration. Over-penetration doesn't scare me. I've never seen a case of a bystander getting hit by an over-penetrating round, but if it happened I doubt the round would have enough spunk left to do very much harm. Anyway, it's a trade-off I'm willing to make.

I keep S&B FMJ in my P32, because it's the hottest I can find.

Pretty much sums up my opinion except my choice of FNJ ammo. I'm not the least bit worried about over-penetration. I worry a lot more about misses. Statistics seem to show a pretty high percentage of misses in most handgun self defense shootings, even LEO involved ones.

[ArtCrafter]

Look on the 'bright' side: Anyone who carries a .380 for self-defense against anything larger than a 'mouse' is certainly no pessimist.

[gatorboy]

I've got one .380, Kahr P380. I would only carry it as backup to something better. The PM9 which I also own is as small as I'd go for primary but don't even need to make that sacrifice with my Shield 40 and the short mag. Still 6+1 and just as small. I trust my seven shot 351 NG J-frame over a 380. 40-50gr. .22 mag's penetrate much better than an 85-100 gr. .355 at the same velocity. Plus the J-frame weighs 11oz. loaded and is way more reliable than the Kahr 380 I have.

[racerford]

[QUOTE=G26S239;19247284]Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

..........

Yes but compare it against the Rohrbaugh 9MM. I used to carry a Seecamp .32 when it was not convenient to carry a Glock 29. The 29 is just as easy to carry as Model 26 (sub-compact 9mm, easier to shoot that the Model 33 (sub-compact .357SIG) and no body bag is needed, only a wetvac.

When the Rohrbaugh became available I haven't carried the Seecamp since. The Rohrbaugh is slightly larger and much more potent. It's main drawback (besides cost) is frequent recoil spring replacement. The springs are cheap so not a big deal to me.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by NEOH212

Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

Do you know the first rule of a gunfight? Bring a gun.

I know plenty of macho types who turn their nose up at mouse guns, who simply do not carry in circumstances where their bigger, heavier weapon is impractical or impossible to carry.

I can clip my P3AT into the waistband of a pair of jogging shorts or sweatpants and never even notice that it is there. Show me a nine you can do that with. I tell people that my P3AT is what I carry when I can't carry a gun. I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

I usually carry a 5" Kimber CDP, but I am not always dressed in a way where I can carry it. I am always carrying something though. Eric

[Z71bill]

Is there a standard for +P & +P+ in .380 auto?

I purchased a P-3AT 6 years ago - I still carry it when I walk the dog - go get the mail - while taking a bike ride - and as a BUG when I travel.

IMHO the P-3AT is easier to shoot than a J frame size revolver in double action. Long trigger but smooth trigger.

[tous]

Originally Posted by vote Republican

"Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18...-cafe-robbery/

So maybe you immobilize one of the guys with a .45. I guess the one that got hit in the arm, if it had been 10mm, it would have taken his arm off at the shoulder.

Nay, good sir.
Had it been a mighty 10mm it would have taken everyone's shoulders off in the line of fire for more than 15 miles.



The smallest pistol I holster is a Glock 30. If I just need to dump one in my pocket, it's a J-frame revolver. I suggest that 5 158-grainers at 800 feet per second beats 7 90 grainers at 1100 feet per second. Kinetic energy is about the same --- anemic, but better than throwing rocks.

Note that the standard .45 ACP 230-grain ball delivers more than twice the kinetic energy than a .380 ACP or .38 Special can.

What about a J-frame in .357 Magnum, you ask? A reasonable choice, far better than a tiny bullet at mediocre velocity, but they are a bit punishing.

[Foxterriermom]

I bought one of those a little while back and wish I hadn't. I can't hit the side of a barn without being right on top of it.

[Cream Soda Kid]

Originally Posted by Eric

Do you know the first rule of a gunfight? Bring a gun.

I know plenty of macho types who turn their nose up at mouse guns, who simply do not carry in circumstances where their bigger, heavier weapon is impractical or impossible to carry.

I can clip my P3AT into the waistband of a pair of jogging shorts or sweatpants and never even notice that it is there. Show me a nine you can do that with. I tell people that my P3AT is what I carry when I can't carry a gun. I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

I usually carry a 5" Kimber CDP, but I am not always dressed in a way where I can carry it. I am always carrying something though. Eric

I agree with you.


My first carry gun was a Bersa Thunder .380. no spare magazine, carried IWB or pocket carry. It was what I could afford at the time. I still have it. I have built up a small collection since then. I have carried the .380, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9X19, .40 caliber, .357 SIG, .45 GAP, and .45 ACP.


My smallest gun is the Bersa, my largest is a full size 1911.
I usually carry 9MM in a GLOCK G19 IWB or a G26 in my pocket or with a Galco JAK slide. Man I love that little holster, it carries and conceals like an IWB but since it rides outside the waistband, it’s pretty darn comfortable. But I digress.


I feel confident enough with any of those weapons, but the .380 does make me feel a little underpowered. I don’t carry that one very often anymore.
But like you Eric, I always carry something.

[PocketProtector]

LCP with BB hard cast +P in rear pocket at ALL times.
Out and about and the G26 accompanies the LCP.
Always

There are just some places and some situations where only an LCP or similar will do.

[ThinkMud]

Not knocking the LCP since I often carry mine when I don't feel like putting a holster on. But someone once said a great quote. Something like "Carrying is about confidence, never about comfort"

I try not to carry less than a 26 or 27 most of the time. But +p .380 sounds better than nothing!

[Dennis in MA]

Originally Posted by Z71bill

Is there a standard for +P & +P+ in .380 auto?

I purchased a P-3AT 6 years ago - I still carry it when I walk the dog - go get the mail - while taking a bike ride - and as a BUG when I travel.

IMHO the P-3AT is easier to shoot than a J frame size revolver in double action. Long trigger but smooth trigger.

Wow. You may be the first to say that in the history of mouseguns.

Originally Posted by ThinkMud

Not knocking the LCP since I often carry mine when I don't feel like putting a holster on. But someone once said a great quote. Something like "Carrying is about confidence, never about comfort"

I try not to carry less than a 26 or 27 most of the time. But +p .380 sounds better than nothing!

Clint Smith said, "A handgun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. . . wear the biggest gun you can."

[ThinkMud]

Originally Posted by Dennis in MA

..
Clint Smith said, "A handgun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. . . wear the biggest gun you can."

That's the one! Thanks

[airmotive]

If I'm too far away from a bad guy for me to get 5 of 7 COM hits with my LCP, then I'm far enough away to beat feet and escape!

I don't carry to hunt bad guys. I carry to discourage bad guys from keeping up with me while I run away screaming like a 4 year old girl.

[arclight610]

Odds of encountering a situation where you need to draw your CCW: Not very high
Odds of just the presence of a firearm diffusing the situation: Pretty good
Odds of getting into an outright gun battle: Not very high

If youre gonna carry, you might as well carry a gun that you know you will have on you 24/7 and be comfortable. However, the situation and living area will dictate.