Inexepensive (but effective) 9mm JHP ammo - Page 2

Gauss Rifle · 07-21-2012, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas357

My sub2k loves +p+ ammo. It is my "high quality" guns that dont like it (sig, hk). Go figure.

Nice.

I kept hearing that some of their (cheaper) pistols couldn't take high pressure rounds and got concerned. I'd love to see their pressure ratings but Keltec's web site has only basic info.

Maybe the Sub 2000 is more durable than I thought. I got to hold one on two occasions; The action seemed a little stiff (probably not broken in yet) and the plastic felt like holding a Tippmann paintball gun; sturdy but not 'combat weapon' sturdy.

If anything, I'd still want one as a companion firearm to my Glock. A pistol/carbine combo that use the same ammo AND mags. If I had that, I might skip the AR 15 altogether.

semiauto · 07-21-2012, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauss Rifle

I have a LTCF and am looking for a good but inexpensive hollow point round.

What does LTCF mean?

Obviously not the answer, but I thought that meant "I have a lot to compensate for."

***Texas357*** · 07-22-2012, 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauss Rifle

Nice.

I kept hearing that some of their (cheaper) pistols couldn't take high pressure rounds and got concerned. I'd love to see their pressure ratings but Keltec's web site has only basic info.

Maybe the Sub 2000 is more durable than I thought. I got to hold one on two occasions; The action seemed a little stiff (probably not broken in yet) and the plastic felt like holding a Tippmann paintball gun; sturdy but not 'combat weapon' sturdy.

If anything, I'd still want one as a companion firearm to my Glock. A pistol/carbine combo that use the same ammo AND mags. If I had that, I might skip the AR 15 altogether.

I did add the aftermarket buffer to mine.

It is blowback operated, so surprisingly high recoil. Seems to cycle better with +p and +p+ (I think I keep +p in it now, and havent bothered with +p+ in a while).
The P-11 can handle +p, but they recommend against a steady diet of it.

Gauss Rifle · 07-22-2012, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiauto

What does LTCF mean?

Obviously not the answer, but I thought that meant "I have a lot to compensate for."

Damn right! I have to compensate for people's lack of morality as well as my surplus of 'mortality'.

We all have to cash in our chips at some time; If some clown wants to help you with that, you might as well return the favor... In advance...

I take it you're not from Pennsylvania? 'LTCF' is a PA acronym for 'License To Carry Firearms'. It allows for concealed carry, among other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas357

I did add the aftermarket buffer to mine.

It is blowback operated, so surprisingly high recoil. Seems to cycle better with +p and +p+ (I think I keep +p in it now, and havent bothered with +p+ in a while).
The P-11 can handle +p, but they recommend against a steady diet of it.

Good to know. I'll probably keep a supply of +P+ for the Glock and an even larger supply of standard pressure for alternate guns, SHTF situations, etc. Right now, based on the info I have, My Glock is the only 9mm in my social circle that I would trust +P+ for an extended time.

elliotb33 · 07-22-2012, 13:04

Fiocchi 115 gr JHP (9APHP)

Wetpack Test Results, Test gun Gen 4 Glock 19

Using 4 jugs of milk, 3 wetpack the last 1 filled with water and the first having the FBI standard 4 layers of denim. Was 7 feet from the jugs. The bullet did NOT expand with every jug having a clean entry and exit wound one would expect from a FMJ. I could not find the bullet but the HP most likely became cloged with the denim and that made it not expand. Not thinking I only brought 1 round of it with me (rest plinking ammo) so I could not test again with same jugs, maybe next time I go I'll try again. Hope this helps out.

Another thing the HP on the Fiocchi is small and doesn't go very deep compared to the 9bple.

unit1069 · 07-22-2012, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliotb33

Fiocchi 115 gr JHP (9APHP)

Wetpack Test Results, Test gun Gen 4 Glock 19

Using 4 jugs of milk, 3 wetpack the last 1 filled with water and the first having the FBI standard 4 layers of denim. Was 7 feet from the jugs. The bullet did NOT expand with every jug having a clean entry and exit wound one would expect from a FMJ. I could not find the bullet but the HP most likely became cloged with the denim and that made it not expand. Not thinking I only brought 1 round of it with me (rest plinking ammo) so I could not test again with same jugs, maybe next time I go I'll try again. Hope this helps out.

Another thing the HP on the Fiocchi is small and doesn't go very deep compared to the 9bple.

I used to shoot the Fiocchi 9APHP because it was a "hot" standard pressure ammo. Then I read that the bullet was an older European JHP of inferior design so I quit buying it. I'm not surprised at the results of your test.

I started using the 115-grain Fiocchi Extrema XTP in my small 9mm when it proved not only robust but also extremely accurate. I am very impressed with this particular round but sorely disappointed in the 124-grain Extrema XTP that proved woefully underpowered and not at all accurate. Other GT members have also reported on the 124-grain Extrema shortcomings.

Gauss Rifle · 07-23-2012, 05:29

Thanks for the info elliotb33. Your results were pretty much what I expected. Looking at the picture on CTD, the hollow point is very shallow compared to U.S. made hollow points; such is the case with the BVAC.

Regarding inferior design; If I were going to inject some twisted backyard physics into what happened, I would guess that the HP cavity was so shallow that the denim turned it into a flat nose. An impact of a bullet like this on soft tissue would not provide sufficient drag on the lead core to make it mushroom nor would it create sufficient pressure in the cavity to allow the jacket to open up,

9BP and 9BPLE have rather deep cavities. Theoretically, an impact with these rounds would create a pressure buildup within the cavity and cause it to buckle outward.

I could be reading too much into this stuff but I think I'll steer clear of the (s)hallow points and get some 9BPLE. I don't want to be in a self defense situation and 'get what I pay for'...

***Texas357*** · 07-23-2012, 21:09

Any comparisons of Hornady Steel Match jhp vs the premium jhp ammo?

Gauss Rifle · 07-24-2012, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas357

Any comparisons of Hornady Steel Match jhp vs the premium jhp ammo?

Funny you should mention that; I was looking at those the other day. Here's a water barrel test. I wasn't particularly impressed with the results but in all fairness, this wasn't a sim-test media/denim test.

9mm Luger - Hornady Training - 125 Gr. JHP Ammo Test - YouTube

I might just bite the bullet (I really need to stop saying that) and get me some of these...

Remington Golden Saber 124gr BJHP

From what I've watched/read, and one of the comments above, this looks like a good balance between reliability, cost and expansion. They seem to retain most of their weight and don't often shed their jackets (due to bonding). As an added bonus, they are standard pressure which is what I'd prefer. If you by a case of 500, they come out to roughly $0.47/round after shipping. Not too shabby...

unit1069 · 07-24-2012, 17:40

It looks like the standard pressure 124-grain Golden Saber is a good choice for close quarters self-defense in a short barrel pistol. I might have to make this round a backup to my preferred 115-grain Fiocchi Extrema XTP since I have some of this particular Golden Saber.

I'd sure like to see a credible comparison between these two rounds as my ultra-small 9mm pocket pistol isn't rated for +P ammo.

AWESOMO 4000 · 07-24-2012, 19:04

For "cheap" defense ammo, impossible to beat the standard pressure Federal 9BP 115gr JHP. Probably the most accurate factory loading for the 9mm -- just plain works with whatever you run it in.

Gauss Rifle · 07-24-2012, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWESOMO 4000

For "cheap" defense ammo, impossible to beat the standard pressure Federal 9BP 115gr JHP. Probably the most accurate factory loading for the 9mm -- just plain works with whatever you run it in.

Good point... I think it's safe to say that we've eliminated Fiocchi (non-extrema) and BVAC from our list as they don't expand well enough for use in self defense. I suppose it's time to up the ante and revise our criteria...

Federal 115 gr JHP. (9BP)
- Pros: inexpensive, good track record vs bad guys, feeds well in most automatics.
- Cons: tendency towards fragmentation/jacket separation,

Federal 115 gr JHP +P+ (9BPLE)
- Pros: inexpensive, good track record vs bad guys, massive damage in ballistic gel test
- Cons: tendency towards fragmentation/jacket separation, causes premature wear on guns, may blow up cheap/low quality guns

Remington Golden Sabre 124gr BJHP
- Pros: Good expansion, standard pressure, tends to retain jacket
- Cons: broad HP cavity may cause jams in some guns, most expensive of the three

Input gentlemen?

elliotb33 · 07-24-2012, 20:33

You can get Golden Saber 124 with......+p+ as well for 13.99 http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4&src=exrbSrch

Gauss Rifle · 07-26-2012, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliotb33

You can get Golden Saber 124 with......+p+ as well for 13.99 http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...4&src=exrbSrch

Looks promising...

Though I may settle for the standard pressure 124gr BJHP on sgammo.com If I buy a case of 500, the price drops to $10.95 each

http://www.sgammo.com/product/reming...24gr-bjhp-ammo

Is there really that big of a difference in ballistic performance between standard an +P pressures out of a 4 inch barrel?

unit1069 · 07-26-2012, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gauss Rifle

Looks promising...

Though I may settle for the standard pressure 124gr BJHP on sgammo.com If I buy a case of 500, the price drops to $10.95 each

For a short barrel/close encounter round on a budget I do believe this is a good value as it comes to $22/box of 50 equivalent.

Quote:

Is there really that big of a difference in ballistic performance between standard an +P pressures out of a 4 inch barrel?

That depends on a lot of different factors. But I do think there are better self-defense JHP choices than the standard pressure 124-grain Golden Saber for a compact size pistol like your G-19, like the Golden Saber Bonded standard and +P versions, HST in both standard and +P versions, and of course the Speer Gold Dots in standard and +P versions. I don't have any opinion on the Winchester premium rounds because I've never shot any, but there are a lot of endorsements for these rounds.

I might also add the Federal 9BPLE is offered at an excellent price given it's street record versus the undocumented record of the standard pressure 124-grain Golden Saber. The 9BPLE can usually be found on the Internet for $18/box of 50 or thereabouts.

The thing is, for self-defense with a top notch pistol one needs to select the very best JHP round consistent with reliability and accuracy and nobody but you can make that choice. Try a few boxes of each one and then make your choice.

cowboywannabe · 07-26-2012, 18:42

CTD which is surprising, has federal 115gr. +p+ 9BPLE ammo for $17.~ for 50 round boxes.

unit1069 · 07-26-2012, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboywannabe

CTD which is surprising, has federal 115gr. +p+ 9BPLE ammo for $17.~ for 50 round boxes.

That's a difficult price to pass up on a verified felon-stopping round. I'm still kicking myself for passing up the Speer 124-Gold Dot +P at $22/box of 50 and if the 9BPLE is still this price when I reorder next time I'm going for some of it to add to what I still have of this round.

BuzznRose · 07-27-2012, 20:04

I used to shoot BVAC ammo but after several thousand .40 and 9 MM, I had a "kaboom" in a .40 that scared the bejeebers out of me. Bought a KKM barrel for my G23 and now only shoot new brass out of my g19/26. My carry ammo is Rem Golden Sabers, but I totally pleased with www.freedommunitions.com new brass 9mm FMJ and reloaded .40.

Never shot their hollow points, but for under $0.30 per round for new brass 124 gr JHP, I would buy them if I were looking for lots of good rounds to stock up.

I ordered some 9mm and .45 ACP this morning and it already shipped.

I've ordered from them 4 times now and every order shipped same day.

Best thing is you can buy 50 - 1000 and pretty much pay the same price per round regardless of volume.

http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/1818.htm

They use UPS and ship from Idaho, but their prices still beat everyone else.

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Poohgyrr · 07-28-2012, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWESOMO 4000

For "cheap" defense ammo, impossible to beat the standard pressure Federal 9BP 115gr JHP. Probably the most accurate factory loading for the 9mm -- just plain works with whatever you run it in.

+1

Old tech, but it has worked for a long time.

WiskyT · 07-28-2012, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzznRose

I used to shoot BVAC ammo but after several thousand .40 and 9 MM, I had a "kaboom" in a .40 that scared the bejeebers out of me. Bought a KKM barrel for my G23 and now only shoot new brass out of my g19/26. My carry ammo is Rem Golden Sabers, but I totally pleased with www.freedommunitions.com new brass 9mm FMJ and reloaded .40.

Never shot their hollow points, but for under $0.30 per round for new brass 124 gr JHP, I would buy them if I were looking for lots of good rounds to stock up.

I ordered some 9mm and .45 ACP this morning and it already shipped.

I've ordered from them 4 times now and every order shipped same day.

Best thing is you can buy 50 - 1000 and pretty much pay the same price per round regardless of volume.

http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/1818.htm

They use UPS and ship from Idaho, but their prices still beat everyone else.

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Judging by the picture on their website only, it looks like Freedommunitions hollow points are plated similar to Ranier. Those hollowpoints are not designed for expansion and typically don't expand. I would contact them about what bullet they use before buying them for SD use.

BuzznRose · 07-28-2012, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiskyT

Judging by the picture on their website only, it looks like Freedommunitions hollow points are plated similar to Ranier. Those hollowpoints are not designed for expansion and typically don't expand. I would contact them about what bullet they use before buying them for SD use.

You may be right, I don't know. But I do know if you called them, they'd answer all your questions. I've really grown to like this little company based on their service, price, and the quality of their target ammo. They ship very fast and have had zero problems in several thousand rounds.

The OP was looking for cheap HP to buy in bulk. He was not asking for top shelf stuff from what i read. But like I said, I load up with Golden Sabers for my self defense.

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WiskyT · 07-28-2012, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzznRose

The OP was looking for cheap HP to buy in bulk. He was not asking for top shelf stuff from what i read. But like I said, I load up with Golden Sabers for my self defense.

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Specifically, he was looking for inexpensive but "effective" 9mm JHP ammo. My point was about the effectiveness of the the ammo you referenced.

Gauss Rifle · 07-29-2012, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzznRose

I used to shoot BVAC ammo but after several thousand .40 and 9 MM, I had a "kaboom" in a .40 that scared the bejeebers out of me. Bought a KKM barrel for my G23 and now only shoot new brass out of my g19/26. My carry ammo is Rem Golden Sabers, but I totally pleased with www.freedommunitions.com new brass 9mm FMJ and reloaded .40.

Never shot their hollow points, but for under $0.30 per round for new brass 124 gr JHP, I would buy them if I were looking for lots of good rounds to stock up.

I ordered some 9mm and .45 ACP this morning and it already shipped.

I've ordered from them 4 times now and every order shipped same day.

Best thing is you can buy 50 - 1000 and pretty much pay the same price per round regardless of volume.

http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/1818.htm

They use UPS and ship from Idaho, but their prices still beat everyone else.

Hmm... I don't know about these freedom munitions guys; their prices look good but they have absolutely NO specifications on their bullets. This is the reason why I've written off BVAC as an option; no one knows how well they expand. For the price, it looks like ok range ammo though.

9BPLE is now on my list of things to buy but I still want a standard pressure round to go with it.

For standard pressure, the Federal 9BP has a good track record but this next video clip has me worried...

9mm Federal HI-SHOK 115 gr JHP AMMO TEST - YouTube

In the labs/tests it looks like the Golden Saber is a good option but unlike 9BP, it doesn't have a proven track record yet.

Too many variables

elliotb33 · 08-12-2012, 11:03

Gass hope you got your 9BPLE already went to CTD to see if prices went up from 17.49 and they no longer carry it. Happy I got my 1,000 rounds from em already.

Gauss Rifle · 09-08-2012, 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliotb33

Gass hope you got your 9BPLE already went to CTD to see if prices went up from 17.49 and they no longer carry it. Happy I got my 1,000 rounds from em already.

Yeah I noticed they were out. I ended up springing for a new(er) car.

My plan now is to get a supply of 9BP (for standby) and some Remington Golden Saber (Carry ammo). Money-wise, It shouldn't be long now.