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Old 07-21-2012, 16:13   #26
CanyonMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
WOW, do you know which loads specifically those were that bulged & split the cases?
I did have a Hornady case split just like that with the 9.4 grain LongShot load over the 200XTP, it was used several times.
Which case actually split? There was some mention of DT having some foreign made brass...
What recoil spring/system was in use?

Hey amigo !

Yes, It was a brand new in the bag never before fired WW. I have never had issue with them (except for the factory one haha).

The load was the 9.2gr LS under the 200gr XTP. Yes I run a steel rod and wolff 20-ish # spring. I could tell by the report and feel they were waaaay to hot, so like a moron, I continued. Must have been the heat !. Not really, I just thought wow, pretty stout in this little hombre G29.. But AH, never again willI tread over max with this powder. Not good.

But, also, must understand the KKM left these hog bellys (you can see in the pics) with most of everything I shot.

The OEM did fine !



All I know my friend.






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Old 07-21-2012, 17:13   #27
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I hear you, Winchester has been one of the stronger brass, the LongShot is very entergetic and that is why I liked 800X slightly better, however it is hard to beat the Blue Dot for tha accuracy that you and I have seen over the years with many cartridges and bullet combinations!

I was going to test some loads today but it was drizzling early, so I finished up building a flip up target stand on the end of the ironing board that I have my CHRONY mounted to.
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Old 07-21-2012, 17:14   #28
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Update...

Shadow you ask me whiich cases.. WW, and I also just looked and saw there is a New Starline in here as well...

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It too, is buldged. 9.2 LS/200gr XTP.

Checked the scales.... Everything "right on." I always double check when loading up any way, but ...

Takes me about an hour, or if I am really takin my time 1 1/2 hours per 100, start to finish. Slow, but that is one reson I have just not had issues, save for a couple little things in all these years. Barrel/loads. Nothing else to it I can see..







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Old 07-21-2012, 17:56   #29
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Surely, CM, you have better things to do than stand out in the heat and shoot where you ain't lookin'. The tea and grandkids sounds like the plan today.

While 9.2 gr LS is a hot load under a 200 gr XTP, it isn't anywhere near a full nuke load, and LS is (normally) a lot more forgiving than that. Did you have the rounds sitting in the sun for a time before shooting? (I've never done with LS this, so I don't know what might happen) Did you try the same load in your OEM barrel? Did you try them in the LW barrel? If you did, what was the result? Any chance of a recoil set-back?

Your KKM barrel shouldn't be bulging those cases like that, for any reason. Do the bulged/split brass fit back in? If they don't, you may have been seeing some (very) early unlocks.
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Old 07-21-2012, 21:10   #30
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Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
I hear you, Winchester has been one of the stronger brass, the LongShot is very entergetic and that is why I liked 800X slightly better, however it is hard to beat the Blue Dot for tha accuracy that you and I have seen over the years with many cartridges and bullet combinations!

I was going to test some loads today but it was drizzling early, so I finished up building a flip up target stand on the end of the ironing board that I have my CHRONY mounted to.
10mm Reloading Forum


Well pard, looks like you got everything pretty well "Ironed out." haha ! Please send the rain our way !!!

Nice little set up you got there amigo.... good thinking. Ha!

Yep WW has always served me well. Blue Dot has always (in semi auto 10's served me well) been good and never an issue..

OK.....


800X is good to go for me and has been in 10.1grs under a 180gr XTP. 10.5/11.0grs of BD under a 180gr XTP has for years worked excellent in OEM and LW. 10.5grs BD with 200gr XTP has worked excellent in OEM and LW with this bullet, and again my BD recipie, with 200gr BT HC at 1.260 has been more than excellent in the OEM G20 for years and years. Enough to take 100yd Texas deer and be a very potent load for what ever I need.. Yes one or two of these are a little tad over Hornady max, BUT... SAFE, For all the years in OEM I have shoot these I can assure you fellow amigo's and 10mm shooter's NOT one issue.... Not one !


NO TYPO's haha ! NO TYPO's !



I know I am more the big bore hog leg carrier/shooter than the 10mm , but 14 years with 10mm has been a learning adventure for me and the loads I just named (above) have been 'more' than safe in the G20and G29 in the OEM barrels and really pack a punch.

I believe that "SHADOW" will agree on these loads (BD) in 10mm that they work really well.



Man I am missing my western movie "Cross fire trail" with Tom Selleck... Better go before I fall asleep. Every time I try to sit down, I have to jump up and run do something for a few minutes.



OK, Yall's turn !



Deleted a bunch of this stuff due to writting while taking 'pain meds' along with a long Hot ruff day... To wordy ! Ha.

Sorry for all the ramblig guys..
I'm better now... I think !
haha




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Old 07-21-2012, 22:32   #31
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Surely, CM, you have better things to do than stand out in the heat and shoot where you ain't lookin'. The tea and grandkids sounds like the plan today.

While 9.2 gr LS is a hot load under a 200 gr XTP, it isn't anywhere near a full nuke load, and LS is (normally) a lot more forgiving than that. Did you have the rounds sitting in the sun for a time before shooting? (I've never done with LS this, so I don't know what might happen) Did you try the same load in your OEM barrel? Did you try them in the LW barrel? If you did, what was the result? Any chance of a recoil set-back?

Your KKM barrel shouldn't be bulging those cases like that, for any reason. Do the bulged/split brass fit back in? If they don't, you may have been seeing some (very) early unlocks.


Amigo, you are so very right on here !!!!

NO, buldged hog belled case will NOT fit back in any barrel....

I not only had all the bad "shooting experience of a life time", and all manner of things gong south on me, but after my "Ice tea and grand kid break", (which lasted about 5 minutes. haha) I had to pull a foal out that was breached, (15 minute job by the time I got there) and 'ream out' two hired hands, and spend a while in a 150 degree meatal shed at 5,000 square feet trying to fix a HUGE AC break down, ( and got it fixed 'fast', 'whew....' ) before a number of $ 15,000 to $40,000 dollar cuttin horses were over heating!!!! They are supposed to be stayin cool in there....

To answer 'your question', NO I did NOT have ammo in the heat amigo, I took them from the bench and drove down to the lower canyon and started shooting.. NO heat problems.. Good thought on 'your behalf', but no, I did not have them in the heat long enough to cause a problem...

As far as the cycling of the gun, no problem.... It ran very well and 'in time'. Obviously the spent shells will NOT fit back into the chamber of the KKM because they are all " hog belled." They are to swollen to fit back in because of poor barrel chamber sizing.

The same loads in the OEM barrel were great except for the 9.2 LS These were the major trouble loads... Now they did shoot with more accuracy in the oem than the KKM, but not enough to write home about.


The "cycling" of the slide was perfect, no problems and all was as should be. It is just real simple. A lousy KKM barrel, perhaps ( in MY case) one out of a cabillion, haha. And loads over max with such powder that reacted in a bad way.

That's about it....




Now back to my video of 'cross fire trail', and falling a sleep.


Bless you old boys









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Old 07-22-2012, 19:07   #32
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Well I ventured out today to test some hand loads...Speer 200 gr Cast TCBB SWC over 9.8 grains of my favorite powder Blue Dot seated to 1.26" with Remington 2 1/2 LP's.
From the Glock 29 factory 3.78"
1150 fps from the clean bore, then 1063, 1079, 1089, 1033 fps

From the S&W 1006 5"
1174, 1201, 1146, 1168, 1150
1153, 1156, 1167, 1151, 1133
1137, 1152, 1131, 1141. 1135
1154, 1145, 1201, 1201, 1201
1143, 1136, 1119, 1124, 1119

Sweat dripping into my eyes, down both arms, jeans soaked and pulling down...25' target spread was 6 1/2" total.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:44   #33
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Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Well I ventured out today to test some hand loads...Speer 200 gr Cast TCBB SWC over 9.8 grains of my favorite powder Blue Dot seated to 1.26" with Remington 2 1/2 LP's.
From the Glock 29 factory 3.78"
1150 fps from the clean bore, then 1063, 1079, 1089, 1033 fps

From the S&W 1006 5"
1174, 1201, 1146, 1168, 1150
1153, 1156, 1167, 1151, 1133
1137, 1152, 1131, 1141. 1135
1154, 1145, 1201, 1201, 1201
1143, 1136, 1119, 1124, 1119

Sweat dripping into my eyes, down both arms, jeans soaked and pulling down...25' target spread was 6 1/2" total.
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Thanks for the report Shadow. If ya got that in the G29 with 9.8 grs BD, then I must be doing pretty good using the 10grs/10.5grs, I have been using for a long time now.

Thanks for posting. I'm done with the LS for now in the 10mm and think I'll jst stick with the BD since it has always worked really well for me all these years. Also the 10.0grs 800X with 180XTP has been very accurate and performs well too.


I'll be sending the KKM back today. Don't know if I'll exchange it, or just get a refund, and stick with the OEM. I have never had a problem with OEM using these BD loads or the 10.0 800X load either. I've about decided to keep the 'trusty G20 SF', and perhaps just sell the G29, since I can find no 'practical use' for it, (fo me) 'out here'. I carry a M1911 45acp when ever we go to a town or city etc. And IF there is to be any hunting it is always my revolvers.

If I use a Glock it has been the G20 for deer size game only, and that is not very often that he sees action, so The G29 is like brand new, so he may just 'help fund' an AK47/M15 project with a few hundred bucks. We'll see, don't know yet.

If I do decide to, I'll let it be known around here if someone wants it, it will be a fair price.


Hey amigo, thanks again for the posting, and I hear ya on the sweat in the face buiness. I'm sure you got worse humidity in Louisiana than we do here in W, Texas. whew !


Was hoping to hear from nick about his shoot Saturday as well..


Take care amigo and thanks...







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Old 07-23-2012, 09:41   #34
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Quote:
Thanks for posting. I'm done with the LS for now in the 10mm and think I'll jst stick with the BD since it has always worked really well for me all these years. Also the 10.0grs 800X with 180XTP has been very accurate and performs well too.

I'll be sending the KKM back today.
Hey, CM... sorry about your weird experiences with LS and your new KKM... thats too bad. I've not had any of those issues with either LS or KKM products. Glad nothing got damaged (except the brass, ha)

Quote:
If I use a Glock it has been the G20 for deer size game only, and that is not very often that he sees action, so The G29 is like brand new, so he may just 'help fund' an AK47/M15 project with a few hundred bucks. We'll see, don't know yet.
Understood... The rule is, if you don't want or don't need or "no longer" need a gun, sell it and get something you want! No harm done!

Quote:
Was hoping to hear from nick about his shoot Saturday as well..
Yea, sorry i've taken so long to report back ... CRAZY weekend here with unexpected guests being over at the house for both Saturday and Sunday... I'm working from home today so I can give you all a quick rundown of my range trip Saturday.

All in all, it was a GREAT time! I met Gator378 (GT forum member) out at one of our state-run ranges with our 10mm's to meet and burn some powder. He brought his Gen1/2 G20 equipped with a JPoint 8MOA reflex sight and Barsto stock length barrel. I'd never before shot a Glock with a reflex sight... I brought my Fusion Hunter and G29SF, neither of which he had shot before. We both had tons of reloads so ammo was no object to us... the only thing preventing us from blasting hundreds and hundreds of rounds downrange that day was 1) the fact that we were sharing a lane and 2) the heat and 3) the rangemaster calling cease-fire every 10-15 minutes. By the way, Gator378 is a very nice young man (lol, he's got me by about 30 years, ) .... REALLY glad to have met him. I'm sure we will shoot again soon, especially when the weather cools down this fall.

My shooting impressions of the JPoint is this: Its CHEATING!! Super super awesome ... just place the dot on the target and press the trigger until the sight picture goes away. We were at the rifle range so 25y was our minimum distance to the target. My FIRST target at 25y, standing, with the JPoint G20 is below. I was not used to his stock trigger (which wasn't nearly as light and crisp as my own G20sf) but was VERY pleased with my first attempt.

First J-Point attempt:
10mm Reloading Forum

Here is the pistol (hope he doesn't mind I post this):
10mm Reloading Forum

Another shot of the pistol:
10mm Reloading Forum

Gator378 really enjoyed both my Fusion AND my G29sf... (I call people by their screen names on public posts unless they say otherwise. PM's and emails are different) ... I think he was more impressed with the Fusion than anything. He kept commenting on how perfect it came up to a sighting picture and how smooth, reliable and accurate it shot. He also commented on how easy the G29 slipped into his pocket. He was also commenting on how my Blue Dot loads ROCKED in a G29. He was wearing the true 10mm smile, and I WAS TOO!

Most of the loads we shot were either his 200gr Rainier bullets over 12.0gr AA9 (really stout feeling, AA9 seems like a real pusher!) or one of several of my 155, 165, 180 or 200gr Gold Dots or XTP handloads...

All in a all, great conversations.... we talked reloading and rifles and pistols and everything in between.... really nice meeting another friend, shooter AND 10mm guy! Also, I think I'm in the market for a JPoint for my G20sf... either a JPoint or a Fastfire III... not sure yet. But I'm strangely excited about the whole thing!!!!! I'm sick and twisted, I know....

One more thing ... my Dad called yesterday and said his inaugural steel plate target testing went well... he's working on fabricating some steel falling targets for our 10mm's and other guns! Can't wait!!!!! More on this later....

(ps... sorry to post this in your thread CM but I didn't think it warranted its own thread and I plan on doing another range trip soon where I take more shots and more pictures)
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:37   #35
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Hey, CM... sorry about your weird experiences with LS and your new KKM... thats too bad. I've not had any of those issues with either LS or KKM products. Glad nothing got damaged (except the brass, ha)



Understood... The rule is, if you don't want or don't need or "no longer" need a gun, sell it and get something you want! No harm done!



Yea, sorry i've taken so long to report back ... CRAZY weekend here with unexpected guests being over at the house for both Saturday and Sunday... I'm working from home today so I can give you all a quick rundown of my range trip Saturday.

All in all, it was a GREAT time! I met Gator378 (GT forum member) out at one of our state-run ranges with our 10mm's to meet and burn some powder. He brought his Gen1/2 G20 equipped with a JPoint 8MOA reflex sight and Barsto stock length barrel. I'd never before shot a Glock with a reflex sight... I brought my Fusion Hunter and G29SF, neither of which he had shot before. We both had tons of reloads so ammo was no object to us... the only thing preventing us from blasting hundreds and hundreds of rounds downrange that day was 1) the fact that we were sharing a lane and 2) the heat and 3) the rangemaster calling cease-fire every 10-15 minutes. By the way, Gator378 is a very nice young man (lol, he's got me by about 30 years, ) .... REALLY glad to have met him. I'm sure we will shoot again soon, especially when the weather cools down this fall.

My shooting impressions of the JPoint is this: Its CHEATING!! Super super awesome ... just place the dot on the target and press the trigger until the sight picture goes away. We were at the rifle range so 25y was our minimum distance to the target. My FIRST target at 25y, standing, with the JPoint G20 is below. I was not used to his stock trigger (which wasn't nearly as light and crisp as my own G20sf) but was VERY pleased with my first attempt.

First J-Point attempt:
10mm Reloading Forum

Here is the pistol (hope he doesn't mind I post this):
10mm Reloading Forum

Another shot of the pistol:
10mm Reloading Forum

Gator378 really enjoyed both my Fusion AND my G29sf... (I call people by their screen names on public posts unless they say otherwise. PM's and emails are different) ... I think he was more impressed with the Fusion than anything. He kept commenting on how perfect it came up to a sighting picture and how smooth, reliable and accurate it shot. He also commented on how easy the G29 slipped into his pocket. He was also commenting on how my Blue Dot loads ROCKED in a G29. He was wearing the true 10mm smile, and I WAS TOO!

Most of the loads we shot were either his 200gr Rainier bullets over 12.0gr AA9 (really stout feeling, AA9 seems like a real pusher!) or one of several of my 155, 165, 180 or 200gr Gold Dots or XTP handloads...

All in a all, great conversations.... we talked reloading and rifles and pistols and everything in between.... really nice meeting another friend, shooter AND 10mm guy! Also, I think I'm in the market for a JPoint for my G20sf... either a JPoint or a Fastfire III... not sure yet. But I'm strangely excited about the whole thing!!!!! I'm sick and twisted, I know....

One more thing ... my Dad called yesterday and said his inaugural steel plate target testing went well... he's working on fabricating some steel falling targets for our 10mm's and other guns! Can't wait!!!!! More on this later....

(ps... sorry to post this in your thread CM but I didn't think it warranted its own thread and I plan on doing another range trip soon where I take more shots and more pictures)


Hey brother, NO appology needed what soever.. Man you are more than welcome to post anything ya want to, and 'any one' can for that matter... NO problem amigo. I enjoyed your post, and "everyone else" that posted on this thread as well...





Well sounds and looks like you and Gator had a very good day. For this I am Glad some one did ! hahaha !

Looks like Gator's "Sighting apparatus" was just short of a scope ! ha.

Yep, it seems most folks who shoot the 10mm with BD always get a rush, especially if it's low light or dark ! haha

You guys had a great time and that is what matters at the end of the day amigo !

Yep, I do not understand one thing about my LS experience except what seems to be (seriously) just plain common sense. A lemon barrel. There should not have been all the huge buldges (like OEM) and blown case (or split), and such terrible accuracy that gave 4" and 6" groups at 25 yds, when I can do that good or better than that at 50 to 100. Seriously.



I can usually punch out the 10 ring at 25 yds, and this G29 has done it a number of times with OEM and BD Hand Loads.

So, as I say, I have no "practical use" for the G29 and knew this when I bought it, but wanted it so.....

I really do like my G20SF, and like the 10mm. It is a fun caliber to shoot, and I will never get rid of my G20SF, but unless I find some pactical reason for "me" to justify keeping the G29, He needs to go. The gun is in perfect condition, looks like NIB, and shoots really great with OEM.

Hey NO cut on KKM here, not at all. I just got a 'lemon'. Anything made by man can go south, we have all bought "something" in our life time more than once, that has been a bummer out of the box .. haha. I am sure another KKM will shoot very well, and IF I do not sell the G29, I will get another KKM or LW just for the heck of it, but really (other than saving brass life) the Oem will punch holes and keep really tighy groups, so who knows at this point.

More important things in life at present than to worry over this little issue.


Well, again, pard I am glad you shared and had a great time at the range with Gator, and I am thankful to ALL you guys on the forum here for your help and advice and load sharing, etc.

On reflection this morning on the LS powder. I have to cut it some slack, "because" I shot it through a lemon barrel.

I have decided (even within the past few hours) to go load up about 25 rounds of LS (when I get the time) and use the G20 LW barrel that shoots like a champ and drills little groups, and run out side here right quick and I bet it will all be fine. I am convinced there is really no other explanation for my mishap the other day except a bad AM barrel.. I can see NO other reason for such bad brass and bad accuracy..

I bet it all goes away with the G20 /LW. I will let y'all know asap. Depends on how busy I am/am not, today and tomorrow.


Well I need to get otta here and re-check an AC system in the horse barn...


Thanks again for sharing.... Every one.



Later amigo's, and everyone welcome to share 'whatever ya want' here.. Always welcome, everyone !












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Old 07-23-2012, 10:44   #36
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Quote:
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I really do like my G20SF, and like the 10mm. It is a fun caliber to shoot, and I will never get rid of my G20SF, but unless I find some pactical reason for "me" to justify keeping the G29, He needs to go. The gun is in perfect condition, looks like NIB, and shoots really great with OEM. Hey NO cut on KKM here, not at all. I just got a lemon. Anything made by man can go south, we have all bought "something" in our life time more than once, that has been a bummer out of the box .. haha. I am sure another KKM will shoot very well, and IF I do not sell the G29, I will get another KKM or LW just for the heck of it, but reall (other than saving brass life) the Oem will punch holes and keep really tighy groups, so who knows at this point.

CM
Agreed 100% on giving both KKM and Longshot BOTH another chance. Do a LS workup in your G20 setup (a proven setup) and watch the numbers and power fly!

And I'm sure Kevin @ KKM will do you right whether its refund or exchange.

Good luck, brother! Stay cool....
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:53   #37
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Agreed 100% on giving both KKM and Longshot BOTH another chance. Do a LS workup in your G20 setup (a proven setup) and watch the numbers and power fly!

And I'm sure Kevin @ KKM will do you right whether its refund or exchange.

Good luck, brother! Stay cool....


Oh yeh for sure amigo. Nothing I have said has been a rant agaist KKM. I made that clear on the first post. Any one can make a mistake with a product. No, I know he makes good stuff as does LW and others. Man i just got a bad one. Stuff happens. I already talked them (at KKM), their really nice folks. Kevin and Sy, and all of them. No worries there. They are there to help I have NO concern with that.


I agree, in that I really believe the other "proven barrel" and the G20 will bring those groups back to one nice pokerchip size hole out there for me. I will let y'all know when I can. Pressing issues are upon me right nowm so I best "press outta here" and go deal with them... haha

Thanks Nick, I agree amigo !

Stay cool ! right ! Even the rattlers are sizzling out here ! haha.



LAter my friend






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Old 07-24-2012, 15:34   #38
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Well here is an update.....



Besides just flat havin to much going on, I have just got "out of the mood" for all my load trial/error stuff for 10mm, "since" I already have loads with BD and AA#9 that really smoke down range and hit hard, and especially with the BD and HC bulllets out of my G20sf..

My Hornady book vol 6/7 just won't allow for enough LS powder to give vels much better than a 40 S&W. Going 1/2/3/grs over book max to achieve what I can safely do with the BD and AA9, I believe is just not a wise idea. Not with the XTP.

Hodgdon allows for 8.2grs LS max with a 200gr SIERRA, not XTP.

Hodgdon allows for 9.5grs LS max with a 180gr SIERRA not an XTP.

Hornady allows for only 8.2grs LS Max for a 180gr XTP Not SIERRA, and allows only 7.3grs of LS Max for the 200gr XTP, not SIERRA.

Since the Sierra and the XTP are differentin shank and ogive, I am confident this is why the difference in load data between Hodgdon and Hornady.

Pushing the 180 XTP to 9.4/9.5grs LS, and the 200gr Xtp 9.2grs LS 'and beyond', is way past 'Hornaday' max, to much so imo, to just end up with what BD and AA#9 can give me more safely so.

I have 'no doubt at this point', after spending half the night last night checking rechecking, and cross refferencing, and looking once again at my fired brass from all the "FUN" I had Saturday... hahaha. That LS is not to be pushed this far from Hornady Max unsing a Hornady bullet.

I learned long ago 'mixing components' is not a real good practice 'at times'. With "some things" yes, we can 'sometimes' get away with it, but it is better to stick with the components listed in the book "especially when," we do decide to venture 'over max' for those particular loads and book data lsted...

Re-read that last sentence amigo's.


Now I am 'no where near' the weany stage and been doing stuff with loads and guns that will make a bull rider out here yell calf rope ! haha.

But, there are just "some components" that must be used as listed in the book for that bullet.


So, if I do that and stay with "Hornady listed data" for the XTP with LS powder in the 10mm, I will end up with not much more than a glorified 40S&W.

I have NO doubt that these loads I ran the other day in the G29 are what caused such excessive pressure that they cracked open and split a new WW case, and just flat buldged out the rest even in that KKM barrel, which yes, Is a rather lemon-ish barrel I 'happened to get', but I have shot about every type gun you can imagine since I started at 10 years old, and married into a family that had a High 'class' firearms license, so I got to shoot a good many pretty cool things in all those years before his death. (former father in law).

Saying, I could tell with out question by feel and report, that those LS loadings were just to hot for that weapon, no matter the barrel. Going to a AM barrel is not a reason to to go further past the limits, it helps yes, but is not the reaaon to crank up the powder load, as I know y'all know already, but some newbies may not know this.

Now, I know several of you have used these LS loads mentioned above with the Xtp's mentioned above, with great results, and no problems, and that is great, and I believe you, and trust the wisdom of those who have done this, but I do suggest we all stand back a tad an give 'thought' to this. Some times luck does not always hold out...


I have been a wildcatter from oil field, horses, to hand gun loads for 4 & 5 decades, and with many risky things in ranch life and business, and do shoot some over max loads in several revolvers and even in the 10mm G20, BUT, in doing so, we got to watch HOW we're mixing and matching bullets/case's/powders/primers.

One of my very dear friends is Mic McPherson. Google him up. He gives lectures all over the world on ballistics, and has a loading manual that I think is one of the best out there.. "Metallaic Cartridge Reloading"

We have spent many phone calls together over a good deal of years, and in all the stuff I mention to him I do, the biggest thing he jumps on me about is "mixing components", mostly bullets from one load book to another.. E.G, using Hornady bullets with SIERRA, etc load data. Vice versa.

Guys, again, I am NOT rebuking, or pointing fingers, or being smart, or any such nonsense ! I am however saying that the LS powder is not a good choice in these way over max loads (according to Hornady load data for their XTP with LS). "because", again, in staying with the Hornady data for 180/200gr Xtp's, it is nothing more than a tad over 40S&W loadings in velocity. You got to get pretty well 'over Hornady max' to make this powder move that bullet the same AA9 or BD can do 'at book data'.


Again guys, man, I do some pretty cutting edge things, I really do and 'never been afraid to'. But For me, the LS and XTP's should stay as Hornady suggest in their load book, after what I experienced with it the other day... I realize there are tons of "weany loads" in most of our manuals, "Especially in the Lyman books."

Talk about liberal load data .. man ! But there is a reason that even in Lee 2nd edition reloading, they specifically say...

" 200gr JHP's" .. this powder this grs, this powder this grs etc, BUT, All of a sudden, they still say "200gr" but it will say right after it XTP!!!

Because of shank of bullet/design/ogive, etc, they know that "this bullet" (in this true example) is NOT to be used under their 200gr JHP loadings "except" where noted XTP.

Same with speer, and Lyman, and other. The bullet is listed for that particular charge weight... YES, I know I know, we can some times, and I some times, go ahead anyway, and even 'push the max'. But in ALL humility, no matter how long ya got away with it, it's only ok, if you've really researched it and "THEN", frankly, 'Know that ya know, that ya know, what your doing." Then procede.


If this sounds weany/ picking/ scolding... Then the reader has MISSED the point here.... Or I have failed to communicate this properly.

I did not write this to argue, or point fingers, cause if I point one finger at you, I got three pointing back at me... haha


I'm just saying that after I a good deal of looking at all this, and loading up some stuff late last night, and looking at some numbers on paper at least. I can see no velocity benifit in LS over the other loadings for the 180gr/200gr XTP. And as I said, staying with Hornady book loads for LS and their XTP, will give poor velocity numbers not much over a 40S&W.


Well. That is what I see, and got to stand there, so hopefully this will be a suggestion that deserves a hearing... ha

Never come to the place in loading that we won't at least listen or research a little more.


So, Final note. The LNIB G29 is for sale if anyone is interested. I have a G20, and it serves my purpose, but have no use for a G29.

Going to stay with my 40 some year carry "in town" of M1911 45acp. This caliber and platform has always served me well, and never let me down, so I will continue on with it in a couple different platforms, but in 45acp.


I got the G29 for a "new trial/error" gun for 'in town human SD..' It would be, and is a good round for that as you all know, man no argument there from me... I just am old and set in my ways and like my 45's haha

The G20 makes for a good saddle bag gun on horse back in the way out back here, loaded down with a hand full of high caps for the poop hit the fan south of the border runners, if God forbid it was needed, but my EDC ranch carry is a 45LC or 44mag six shot and although I can knock a nat out of his saddle at a looong way with my hog legs, I do favor having higher cap fire power in the ready if called for.

Thus the G20 rides along. 10mm ? Excellent caliber and SD weapon, and a ok deer gun. But the G29 is up for grabs if someone wants it. Yes it has had maybe 300yds through it I guess. But looks and shoots perfect with the OEM barrel. Internals have been lightly polished by me, and as I said it shoots great.

I just got no need for it.

As for the G20. It will and has served well with the high dose's of BD, and max loads of AA#9 for me, so I'll stay there.

I hope everyone takes this in the spirt given, as most forums are not much more than key board battle grounds.


Some times in life we learn, some times we need to teach. So, I'll throw this out like a hay bale over the fence, and folks can eat or walk away...

Man, in over 40 odd years of loading and shooting all the time... I am still learnng ! haha..........



Well amigo's. Gun for sale. I am satisfied with the G20 and my long time loads. It is a keeper. The KKM goes back for a refund, and the LS, well, it will be a shelf queen, unless I can find use for it some where, but I would not no where at present. All calibers and guns I own already got their "menu"
lined out for them ! haha.

This weapon (G29) 'will knock out' the 10 ring with the stock barrel even in semi rapid fire and at 35yds or so.

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Be safe Mi Amigo's !!











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Last edited by CanyonMan; 07-24-2012 at 16:53..
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Old 07-24-2012, 17:44   #39
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"Some times in life we learn, some times we need to teach. So, I'll throw this out like a hay bale over the fence, and folks can eat or walk away... "

Well I choose to eat.

Thanks for posting. I'd be a FOOL if I didn't keep listening and learning in my life, and while ain't done with Longshot yet (by a longshot), I'm going to look REALLY hard at both Blue Dot and AA9 in making my decision as to my main 200gr huntin powder. I still have many more tests to do (mainly accuracy workups) before I decide on what's best for my official hunting powder... and will be taking into effect how safe my loads are in comparison to the power I'm getting.


I'll pass the word on the G29sf, man!! Stay safe!!!
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Old 07-24-2012, 19:33   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
"Some times in life we learn, some times we need to teach. So, I'll throw this out like a hay bale over the fence, and folks can eat or walk away... "

Well I choose to eat.

Thanks for posting. I'd be a FOOL if I didn't keep listening and learning in my life, and while ain't done with Longshot yet (by a longshot), I'm going to look REALLY hard at both Blue Dot and AA9 in making my decision as to my main 200gr huntin powder. I still have many more tests to do (mainly accuracy workups) before I decide on what's best for my official hunting powder... and will be taking into effect how safe my loads are in comparison to the power I'm getting.


I'll pass the word on the G29sf, man!! Stay safe!!!




Hey Buddy, I am glad someone read my "novel." haha !

I was hoping The post would not come across in a bad way, but as instructive. I really believe I am on the right track here, BUT, bro in your continued LS testing, do be careful Nick. I really do believe these figures we been talking about are way to much "and for the wrong bullet design." !!

But, please do keep any information and or updates of what you learn out here before everyone.


I appreciate the kind and sincere reply amigo. I really thought I should post this (above) after 'my' own shooting experience with LS (at the grains over "Hornady book max"), and after a night full of cross referencing, even "old outdated data here.." And looking through a mountain of load data books in my pretty large library of data books manuals, and others load notes from over the years I have.

Also, the discussion with Hodgdon. And a friend of mine I mentioned (above) who wrote a load book Metalic Cratridge Reloading," by Mic McPherson." Everyone really needs this thick load manual.. It can be Googled up.

He is working on the next volume now. It really would be a REAL benefit to everyone to get this load manual.

So, like I said about the hay... We never feed hay with sticks in it or the stock would choke.

So, when we're "eating", (information), we need to always spit out the sticks (if their there) and only eat the hay.



I hope this "hay" (my post above) will help some hungry travlers by here...





I appreciate you brother.

Thanks for spreading the word on the G29.
That puppy shoots good don't it ? I think there was 50/60 rounds in that 35yd 'step out the door test' in the back.




Good shooting !













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Last edited by CanyonMan; 07-25-2012 at 13:45..
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:04   #41
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Need help... HC lead ok in OEM barrel?

CanyonMan,
I am inferring from your posts that you shoot HC lead through an OEM Glock barrel. I bought some Buffalo Bore 220 grain HC lead for black bear defence but was then told that these shold not be shot in an OEM glock barrel.

Can you please confirm or deny this for me?

Thank you
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:32   #42
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Originally Posted by 10mmted View Post
CanyonMan,
I am inferring from your posts that you shoot HC lead through an OEM Glock barrel. I bought some Buffalo Bore 220 grain HC lead for black bear defence but was then told that these shold not be shot in an OEM glock barrel.

Can you please confirm or deny this for me?

Thank you
CanyonMan is offline for a while, but I can answer your question. Yes, he did/does shoot HC bullets through his OEM Glock barrel. I do too, a lot.

The general rule is, don't. The reason is a higher occurrence of leading, due to the design of the bore "rifling". If you do, spend some time watching your performance, and check the bore often for excessive leading. The "problem" isn't so much the lead, but the bullet diameter and the Glock bore. This is why some Glocks lead, and some don't. If you are going to shoot lead often, I suggest you slug your bore, and make sure the bullets you are shooting are of sufficient diameter. For traditional rifling, an oversize of .001" may be enough, while some Glock bores seem more happy with .002". The use of a gas check may help if it's on the smaller side. The BB round is a plain-base bullet, and they don't specify the actual bullet diameter, other than the .400" caliber. They advertise velocities for the Glock pistols and don't advise against it, so it's functional at least (not to mention it's popular with Glock shooters).

If you have the rounds already, either fire some test rounds to settle your concern, or return them and get a suitable jacketed round. If you have only 1 or 2 boxes, and actually get excessive leading, you can shoot up what you have before it becomes an issue. The "high round count" that can cause issues is a lot more than you'll be shooting at any one session, and certainly a LOT more than what you'll need to dispatch a bear. A typical session with mine is more than 200 rounds of lead bullets. I will have some leading at the end of the day, but it's minimal, and cleans up easy enough. If you're still apprehensive, return/sell your BB rounds, and buy a suitable jacketed round, such as Underwood's 200 gr. XTP, or 200 gr. TMJ (Speer) if you require a solid bullet.
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Old 09-04-2012, 18:33   #43
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I shot commercial hardcast in the factory barrel, but they leaded up pretty good in my case after a few. Sort of a non-issue, you can still shoot them 'til the barrel gets too full of lead, then you have to clean it.

Last edited by Any Cal.; 09-04-2012 at 18:39..
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Old 09-13-2012, 15:41   #44
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Update !

Was trotting buy.....


Mi Amigo's. Many of you have sent emails and PM's and stayed in touch, and man I really appreciate all of you that have been doing this. Keep it up !

Just an update to answer some questions "all at once" here, then I am back to my "GT Sabbatical."


Sold the G29, and sent the KKM back to KKM. Then a couple weeks ago in the mail I had another KKM and opened it, and it was for a G29 ????? !!! So I called and they said, well, we wanted you to be a happy camper so we fixed this puppy up for ya and sent it to ya free of charge ! On the house ! It ought to work as per how you wanted it to now with those cast bullets.. (remember the theme of this thread was my BT 200gr cast would not load into the new KKM for the G29)

I said , 'Wow, are you guys the greatest, but this one won't work either..... Because I SOLD the G29.." Haha.

Kevin, (at KKM) said, " Well you got a G20 don't ya."? Yep, I replied. He said, "We will just send you a new barrel for your G20 On the house and ready to go for your needs."

I said...(without a nano speck of hesitation. FINE ! Cool ! ).


I got it recently, and discovered some really cool things, and one really dumb thing on MY part !

The really cool thing is, the new KKM for the G20SF (see below) Now loads my HC 200gr, 180gr, 135gr, at 1.255.

Remember, I been loading 200gr and 180gr HC's for ever in the stock barrel with BD at 1300fps, and 1.260

So, I dummy loaded a Hunter Supply, and a DT 200gr, and at 1.255 they "plop' right in like champs and I will now be able to adjust my BD, but still remain at 1300fps ! Very sweet !


Now, when I tried the BT 200gr Dummy load, I found out what a dummy I really was. (actually "forgetfull) "!

They would again, NOT go in all the way in the new KKM... ??? What is this, I yelled !


I looked at the "box" the BT's came in and saw it ! Then remembered, I had ordered them all way back in the day at .402, and been using them with tremendous accuracy and results at 1300fps in the OEM barrel using BD.

The HS, and the DT HC bullets measured... You guest it ! .401 !

SOOOO, All .401 HC I have dropping down to 1.255, from my 1.260, (which we know is nothing) ALL work fantastic in the new KKM G20SF !

Go ahead and laugh... One day 'you two' may get to be 61, and forget stuff !


So, my good friends, I close with a few pics, and ride off once again, and say adios until.................?


Thanks again, for ALL the emails and PM's. Always welcome !


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My Stetson is off to Kevin and Luke at KKM ! I can not think of how in the world a guy could be treated any better than I have been by this really great company, and the honest stand up guys that own operate it... Thanks guys at KKM !!!!



Stay safe everyone, and be blessed !








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