[The Fist Of Goodness]

Originally Posted by NMG26

They can eat crow. Game looks good to me.

I'll admit to skepticism about Lakota's story. His writing style, and the use of terms like Navy Seal Aviator, the presumably classified information in his posts, and name dropping Panetta certainly conform to the type of things the posers and tin foil hat wearers say (I was reminded of a guy who used to write letters to me asking for assistance with his troubles with George Bush (41) and the Prince of the Mafia).

It appears that Lakota is a Navy vet, (and he isn't claiming to be a super secret SEAL, just involved in a classified operation) and the ship he served on was in the area of Cuba in the early 60's. I don't know if UDT/SEALs were involved in the Bay of Pigs operations, but they did infiltrate Cuba (read First Seal by Roy Boehm) during the missile crisis, and were landed by ship or sub, which would involve their crews. I also don't know if they sustained any casualties in Cuba, but it is certainly possible.

It's a shame that the posers have made it impossible to know when someone is telling the truth. There were some truly hairy operations during the cold war, and many of the participants have never come forward. I hope Lakota is one of the real ones.

[deadday]

Originally Posted by Lakota

"Panetta personally accessed your classified/sealed records after over 50 years so that you could file a VA claim? And they rated you 100% due to PTSD? So you don't own any firearms, right? Because a 100% PTSD rating means you cannot own/purchase/possess due to the fact that there is a persistent danger of you hurting yourself or others. And you're unable find/hold a job, right? Because of the persistent hallucinations and delusions along with your grossly inappropriate behavior of course.."

********************************

The issue of personal responsibility "competence' and autonomy ha7s been subjected many times by various individuals and institutions, since PTSD became a medical and academic part of the educational cirriculum, since 1981, where a few pages addressing it can be found in *DSM I - IV (*Disorder Symptoms Manual), it is has been known for centuries, perhaps millennia, that persons who've absorbed or othewise witnessed or experienced severe physical and/or psychological trauma exhibit symptoms of depression, disturbed sleep, flash & panic attacks, etceteras.

Your assertion that individuals diagnosed with 100% PTSD cannot own or carry firearms, due to PTSD is patently incorrect. Those who seek confirmation of this are invited to allude to the expertise of care-givers who hold Master's degrees and Ph.Ds on this new medical science (since '81).

Thousands of military and police personnel are so diagnosed and maintain their right to keep and bear arms - this includes high ranking government officials.

If and when an individual is diagnosed as 'incompetent' and/or a threat to self and others, then their right to keep and/or bear arms is nullified.

Moreover, in this thread, the issue of CCWs 'shooting civilians' has come up several times, whereas, such isolated actions are stringently scrutinized and the same evaluation and circumspection of whether or not such incidents are justified by reasonable grounds of 'self defense' and/or 'protecting the lives of others' is applied to LEOs (and high ranking government officials diagnosed with 100% PTSD) just as they are CCWs: none of these kinds of diversions from the issues of this thread are cogent or otherwise germane to the featured subject of a scenario of American military waging what amounts to anti-Constitutional war upon law abiding citizens.

Note the date on the below DD 215 document (September 1985) - a quarter century after the covert/then classified event it confirms - having been excluded from my DD 214, along with a host of other awards, citations, etceteras. My unit was doing reconnaissance (by international law, we were all 'pirates', literally) in preparation for the failed Bay of Pigs, for the reasons previously provided in this thread.










Below is the 'Cross of Malta' icon of the VFW, of which I have been a member (Chief Warrant Security Officer, Ordained Chaplain) since 1981; then, under the sponsorship of congressman Leon E. Panetta, since he had yet to ascend from congressman to White House Chief of Staff, to C.I.A. Director, enabling him to access otherwise classified information, which has since then been 'declassified', though the mainstream media isn't talking about the mortal loss of scores if not hundreds of Americans, contingent to their presence and perishment in Cuba, prior to and during the Bay of Pigs - where the continuing cover up and denial is that 'their were no Americans in the Bay of Pigs'.

Presently I am preoccupied to learn the names of the other losses (whose families were told they were 'lost at sea'), and thereby authorize a Memorial in Washington, D. C.

Best regards,
- Lakota

The people with the masters and doctoral degrees are the ones that wrote the VASRD which I was quoting...

And you failed to address anything else I mentioned...

I won't waste the time pointing out all of the stupid in what you just posted, let's stick with the enlisted SEAL aviator, then we'll get back to your secret squirrel days during the BoP incident and you 100% PTSD rating

[expatman]

I will admit. The Enlisted SEAL aviator thing still bugs me.

[Lakota]

deadday: "The people with the masters and doctoral degrees are the ones that wrote the VASRD which I was quoting... (So, what is your point of contention here?what 'quote' of yours do you allude to?)

And you failed to address anything else I mentioned...

(Please make your case regarding your proclamation that I 'failed to address anything else you mentioned', what purported remission are you referencing here?)


I won't waste the time pointing out all of the stupid in what you just posted (You allege 'all of the stupid' and that your 'won't waste your time pointing it out' : Please make your - notably skipped over - case: once again you are obliged to clarify what you vacantly allude to), let's stick with the enlisted SEAL aviator, then we'll get back to your secret squirrel days during the BoP incident and you 100% PTSD rating.

There is no mention of any 'enlisted SEAL aviator' in any of my posts, consequently you are (consistently) obliged to fulfill your redundantly vacant intention of "then we'll get back to your secret squirrel days during the BoP incident" - never mind your 'squirrel', or plural usage of "then we'll get back"; it's your singularly self-imposed objective to 'get back to' the mystery of what you're referring to, all by yourself; since that information has already been abundantly conveyed by Truly Yours in the preceding posts in this thread, while some entries have rolled out, augered in and evasively reduced this seriatim dialogue to criticisms of grammar, vocabulary and word usage.

Your monologue - and that of several others in this thread - reveals a pattern of casting flaming - off topic - issue-diverting aspersions ('The first method of war is deception'. - Sun Tzu); ignoring or nullifying forensic evidence, while asserting unsubstantiated argument(s) and making conspicuously fictitious statements and bankrupt predictions as though they are true and/or tenable.

"Sometimes a constructive argument may become the unwelcome realisation that unwarranted aggression reveals the vulnerability of those who practise it." - R.D. Laing

---

Last edited by deadday; Today at 19:47..
_________________________________________________

Originally Posted by expatman

I will *admit. The Enlisted SEAL aviator thing still bugs me.

Your *'admission' is duely noted, expatman. Both you and deadday are consequently and mutually obliged to point out whenever and wherever I alluded to or otherwise subjected an 'Enlisted SEAL aviator' in this thread.

As this content is presented, it appears that deadday prefers his potatoes under his gravey, while expatman innovatively chooses gravey over his potatoes.


Best regards,
- Lakota

[deadday]

Post 35 hoss. You referred to him as an aviator SEAL, then you mention he is a four-striper referring to Navy rank....

[Bren]

Originally Posted by mb5417

I'll admit to skepticism about Lakota's story. His writing style, and the use of terms like Navy Seal Aviator, the presumably classified information in his posts, and name dropping Panetta certainly conform to the type of things the posers and tin foil hat wearers say (I was reminded of a guy who used to write letters to me asking for assistance with his troubles with George Bush (41) and the Prince of the Mafia).

It appears that Lakota is a Navy vet, (and he isn't claiming to be a super secret SEAL, just involved in a classified operation) and the ship he served on was in the area of Cuba in the early 60's. I don't know if UDT/SEALs were involved in the Bay of Pigs operations, but they did infiltrate Cuba (read First Seal by Roy Boehm) during the missile crisis, and were landed by ship or sub, which would involve their crews. I also don't know if they sustained any casualties in Cuba, but it is certainly possible.

It's a shame that the posers have made it impossible to know when someone is telling the truth. There were some truly hairy operations during the cold war, and many of the participants have never come forward. I hope Lakota is one of the real ones.

I agree with you. Lakota's story sounded like a poser, but he gave a good explanation and I am tempted to buy it.

The only questions I still have are
(1) why the service dates on the USS Great Sitkin are a month after the Bay of Pigs invasion (happened in April, 1961). Lakota claimed to have been there before, and possibly during, the invasion.

(2) Why it's the USS Great Sitkin, which was apparently involved in the Cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the Bay of Pigs invasion.

[GRIMLET]

My father in law was a UDT/SEAL back in the 60's.
There was a recent documentation thing for retirees and he found his records had been cleansed of certain things. The VA rep told him he had a few guys from special ops with the same problem.

I am not making a comment on Lakotas posts.

I am stating the government appeared to wash some of its laundry.

[expatman]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Dear espatman, and whomever else may be concerned:

Your's sounds like the most tenable resolution.
Uncle John (R.I.P.) was seen in full uniform by myself on only one occasion - just after the Persian Gulf War, in which he participated by way of deployment and landing LZs of Harriers (and other classified aircraft) from clear touraine and/or river & lake barges. He was a full Four Striper then; wearing a rich decoration of fruit salad, including aviator's wings, and, the 'Buds' brass denoting SEAL status which he'd earned years earlier; of whch he was very proud.

(For the uninitiated, the 'Buds' colloquialism refers to the brass Navy Seal icon, which somewhat resembles the 'Budweiser' emblem on the famous beer; though the beer icon does not feature Neptune's Trident of the SEAL icon.)

Thank you very much, espatman and all other contributors to & of this thread.

P.S.
I, myself was a Navy Coxswain beginning at age 17 through '58 to '62. Because I had considerable experience with fresh water boat handling in northern Minnesota, I escalated from Bowhook to Coxswain (Whaleboats, Gig, Launch & LCVP) very quickly, after making E-3 I did pass the E-4 test three times, but the rate was (frozen - no vacancies), due to the extant WW II vet Boatswain Mates from WW II.

I worked with what we then called 'UDT Frogmen' (now called SEALs) and Merc operatives, in Cuba, on classified recon missions just prior to the Bay of Pigs debacle. I was neither a SEAL nor 'merc' (mercenary) 'operative, but held 'command' (E-3) authority when they were doing recon from my LCVP.

Half of the thirty combat troops who deployed inland from my (triple canopy concealed, river ensconced) boat were ambushed and perished.

Castro's people knew where and when we would be - Allen Dulles was Director of C.I.A. then, and was compromised with Castro, the two of whom were running and otherwise trading and buying weapons and drugs. * JFK fired *Allen Dulles for compromising Cuban revolutionaries - including Che Guevera - (* Not to be confused with John Foster Dulles who was a good guy and Democratic Speaker of the House for 47 years).

* Notably, Allen Dulles was appointed among those who sat on the Warren Commission to determine the preposterously asserted, ongoing propaganda: that 'Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the murder of JFK.

Allen Dulles' treasonous motive in March and April of '61 (two months before the 6/'61 - 20/'61 Bay of Pigs 'incident' - not to be confused with the 'missile crisis' of 10/'62, where there was not a shot fired) was to insure that Cuba was not annexed, say, like Puerto Rico, since such U.S. annexation would deprive the drug & gun runners of free reign they enjoyed then (due to Cuba as a sovereign state and Soviet extension) and are still profiting from (across the mere 90 miles seperating Cuba from the souther tip of the Florida peninsula - especially Miami).

Upon informing 'upper' (by radio) that we were only about 20 yards from the fire-fight - we did not have a 'visual' on the enemy - due to very heavy foliage - and could not therefore back them up; while simultaneously under stringent orders not to leave the boat; such orders then issued: that we abandon all possible KIAs and WIAs. The remainder of the unit did that (on my boat, flying no colors, with the ID chipped off and painted over) on my boat.

After over fifty years, last March, then C.I.A. Director Leon E. Panetta accessed my classified/sealed records and thereby enabled the Bureau of Veterans Affairs to grant me 100% PTSD disability. Mister Panetta is now the recently promoted Secretary of Defense - I've known him since he was the 17th District Congressman, in '81.

Best wishes,
- Lakota

I added the bold to the part I am curious about.

Regards

[Lakota]

deadday:

A 'four striper' is a Navy Captain (Equivalent to a full bird Colonel in all other services. 'Four striper alludes to the four gold stripes on a Navy Captains sleeve. His collar devise is an eagle, as that of all other 'bird Colonels.

Ask any Sailor, which obviously you are not.

Is this where the 'enlisted SEAL Aviator' barb originates? (Twice)?

Bren:
You fault 'name dropping Panetta'. How could I not mention him while making statements that were questioned:

	317.1
	Dated, 24 September 1985 Bren: The only questions I still have are (1) why the service dates on the USS Great Sitkin are a month after the Bay of Pigs invasion (happened in April, 1961). Lakota claimed to have been there before, and possibly during, the invasion. You allege that the BoP invasion happened in April, 1961, while the fact of the matter is that it's chronological event window is May 6 to May 26 as plainly documented in the above letter to Panetta, from the Navy Department. I was in indeed in and around major portions of the island of Cuba, before the invasion, doing reconaissance in preparation for the May 6 to May 26 invasion window. (2) Why it's the USS Great Sitkin, which was apparently involved in the Cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the Bay of Pigs invasion. Bren: The immediate above question is officially answered in the provided document, (received in September of '85). My Expeditionary accredation was for the Bay of Pigs, May 6th - May 26th - my honorable discharge was 13 July '62 - about three months before the so called 'missile crisis'.

(2) Why it's the USS Great Sitkin, which was apparently involved in the Cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Bren:
Why do you ask the above question?
_______________________________________

expatman: You said you highlighted the Bold excerpt from my previous missive because you are 'curious about that' ('bold part' below):
* JFK fired *Allen Dulles for compromising Cuban revolutionaries - including Che Guevera - (* Not to be confused with his brother, John Foster Dulles who was a good guy and Democratic Speaker of the House for 47 years).

Apparently you are unaware of the history of the firing of Allen Dulles by JFK - for compromising the BoP invasion, and the later appointment of him (Allen Dulles) to chair in the Warren Commission which determined that 'Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone', in thetriangulated murder of JFK.

Misinformation, misunderstaning and argument for its own sake emerges prevalent in the this superfluously continuing skunk fight.


Is it resolved yet?


Post Script:
Readers are cordially invited to access and read a 'faction story'
(fiction based on fact) approximating the issues of this thread.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/waboose2/

****************************

The following urls are for whomever chooses to consider them.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42821561/Total-Field-Theory
***********

http://forums.delphiforums.com/mollyspup/messages/?msg=2.1

TV THAT WATCHES YOU
**************
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DemureDragon/messages/?msg=2.1
HAPPY NEW YEAR: 1968
*************
http://forums.delphiforums.com/charlie1968/messages/?msg=3.1
Old Spice & Napalm - Hollywood & Vietnam
__________________________________________

Best regards,
- Lakota

[NMG26]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Misinformation, misunderstaning and argument for its own sake emerges prevalent in the this superfluously continuing skunk fight.

Best regards,
- Lakota

Best skunk fight I have read in a while. Keep it up!

[deadday]

Originally Posted by lakota

deadday:

a 'four striper' is a navy captain (equivalent to a full bird colonel in all other services. 'four striper alludes to the four gold stripes on a navy captains sleeve. His collar devise is an eagle, as that of all other 'bird colonels.

Ask any sailor, which obviously you are not.

Is this where the 'enlisted seal aviator' barb originates? (twice)?

yup, i'm a soldier not a sailor, and stripes to me mean nco, my apologies. Now we're just left hashing out how he was a seal and an aviator.

bren:
you fault 'name dropping panetta'. How could i not mention him while making statements that were questioned:


(2) why it's the uss great sitkin, which was apparently involved in the cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the bay of pigs invasion.

bren:
why do you ask the above question?
_______________________________________

expatman: you said you highlighted the bold excerpt from my previous missive because you are 'curious about that' ('bold part' below):
* jfk fired *allen dulles for compromising cuban revolutionaries - including che guevera - (* not to be confused with his brother, john foster dulles who was a good guy and democratic speaker of the house for 47 years).

apparently you are unaware of the history of the firing of allen dulles by jfk - for compromising the bop invasion, and the later appointment of him (allen dulles) to chair in the warren commission which determined that 'lee harvey oswald acted alone', in thetriangulated murder of jfk.

misinformation, misunderstaning and argument for its own sake emerges prevalent in the this superfluously continuing skunk fight.


is it resolved yet?


post script:
readers are cordially invited to access and read a 'faction story'
(fiction based on fact) approximating the issues of this thread.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/waboose2/

****************************

the following urls are for whomever chooses to consider them.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/42821561/total-field-theory
***********

http://forums.delphiforums.com/mollyspup/messages/?msg=2.1

tv that watches you
**************
http://forums.delphiforums.com/demuredragon/messages/?msg=2.1
happy new year: 1968
*************
http://forums.delphiforums.com/charlie1968/messages/?msg=3.1
old spice & napalm - hollywood & vietnam
__________________________________________

best regards,
- lakota

Interesting, nothing I capitalized in the quote above is now that I've submitted it (SEAL, NCO, Soldier)....weird...

[Bren]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Bren: The only questions I still have are
(1) why the service dates on the USS Great Sitkin are a month after the Bay of Pigs invasion (happened in April, 1961). Lakota claimed to have been there before, and possibly during, the invasion.

You allege that the BoP invasion happened in April, 1961, while the fact of the matter is that it's chronological event window is May 6 to May 26 as plainly documented in the above letter to Panetta, from the Navy Department.

I was in indeed in and around major portions of the island of Cuba, before the invasion, doing reconaissance in preparation for the May 6 to May 26 invasion window.

(2) Why it's the USS Great Sitkin, which was apparently involved in the Cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Bren:
The immediate above question is officially answered in the provided document, (received in September of '85). My Expeditionary accredation was for the Bay of Pigs, May 6th - May 26th - my honorable discharge was 13 July '62 - about three months before the so called 'missile crisis'.

(2) Why it's the USS Great Sitkin, which was apparently involved in the Cuban missile crisis blockade in 1962, but not the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Bren:
Why do you ask the above question?

Ths is not a debatable topic; the Bay of Pigs invasion was launched on April 17, 1961 and was over the next day. You didn't do preliminary recon for it or participate in it in May, since it was long over by then.

That leads me to believe both the story and the document are false.

I ask about the ship because the document says you were on the USS Great Sitkin. That ship did not take part in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Its Cuban service was in the blockade, after you were discharged.

Now some other issues:

How come you, Kent Robertson, aren't even on the roster of sailors who served on the Great Sitkin in the 1960's? Turns out there is an organization that keeps track of the history of the USS Great Sitkin and they have the rolls of all the Navy personnel who ever served on it. No Kent Robertson. I likewise couldn't find a Kent Robertson US Navy vet using the "Bufddy Finder" at military.com.

Obviously those things aren't perfect, but when a story is fishy...and keeps getting fishier...

Here is the USS Great Sitkin crew list for the "R"s for the 1960's.

[Angry Fist]

YGBSM....

[The Fist Of Goodness]

Originally Posted by Bren

Ths is not a debatable topic; the Bay of Pigs invasion was launched on April 17, 1961 and was over the next day. You didn't do preliminary recon for it or participate in it in May, since it was long over by then.

That leads me to believe both the story and the document are false.

I ask about the ship because the document says you were on the USS Great Sitkin. That ship did not take part in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Its Cuban service was in the blockade, after you were discharged.

Now some other issues:

How come you, Kent Robertson, aren't even on the roster of sailors who served on the Great Sitkin in the 1960's? Turns out there is an organization that keeps track of the history of the USS Great Sitkin and they have the rolls of all the Navy personnel who ever served on it. No Kent Robertson. I likewise couldn't find a Kent Robertson US Navy vet using the "Bufddy Finder" at military.com.

Obviously those things aren't perfect, but when a story is fishy...and keeps getting fishier...

Here is the USS Great Sitkin crew list for the "R"s for the 1960's.

Interesting. I actually found another sight that did list Kent Robertson as a crewmember on the Great Sitkin, though it appeared to be a user generated list, as opposed to an official roster. I will have to look it up when I get home.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Lakota]

Bren:
I am entirely aware of the USS Great Sitkin AE-17 forum on the net as entered in Google. Look in the * third listing of that ship: "Crew list of the USS Great Sitkin" (there are eleven listings). The list for the '60s & '70s excluded the era between '58 and '62.

Not only does the Navy Department letter posted in this thread prove that was my ship (25,000 tons of every kind of ammunition), and that it was in fact in the Bay of Pigs (May 6 to May 26) moreover, having done your consistently failed homework for you again: enter USS Great Sitkin AE-17 in Google, where you will find an alphabetically ordered * 'Crew's List'. Look under 'R' (if you can manage that?) and you will find my alphabetically ordered name.

There are literally hundreds of my comrades on that ship between '58 and '62 who will confirm not only that I served on her as a Boatswain's Mate Coxswain, but was also commeded four times at Dress Muster, for four different occasions of Life Saving, and was also recommended for a Bronze Star by the late Roger C. Branch, my 2nd Division E-5 Petty Officer, when I disarmed a potentially disastrous 'hang fire on a hot gun', since I was also a 3" 50 1st loader (Army designated 105mm howitzer) at General Quarters.

Judging from your most recent post (above) Bren, you are advised to take your hallucinatory differences about the Bay of Pigs, to the Navy Department or Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta, since you have desperately, repeatedly and hysterically resorted to direct accusations of fraud and prevarication; while those adjectives are in fact found to be applicable to yourself and your name-calling huddle of cronies.


Are you and the most recently arrived despot ('Angry Fist' is it? That 'girl' is indeed a time bomb - 'she' is a he, and is reputed all over the net as an enthusiastically bubbling specialist (costumed in the raiments of a medical authority - while the first law of Medicine is 'Do no harm' ) - in rubber gloving children and making entertaining efforts to blame his specialty on others.) through making a fool of yourself yet?





Best regards,
- Lakota

[deadday]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Bren:
I am entirely aware of the USS Great Sitkin AE-17 forum on the net as entered in Google. Look in the * third listing of that ship: "Crew list of the USS Great Sitkin" (there are eleven listings). The list for the '60s & '70s excluded the era between '58 and '62.

Not only does the Navy Department letter posted in this thread prove that was my ship (25,000 tons of every kind of ammunition), and that it was in fact in the Bay of Pigs (May 6 to May 26) moreover, having done your consistently failed homework for you again: enter USS Great Sitkin AE-17 in Google, where you will find an alphabetically ordered * 'Crew's List'. Look under 'R' (if you can manage that?) &and you will find my alphabetically ordered name.

There are literally hundreds of my comrades on that ship between '58 and '62 who will confirm not only that I served on her as a Boatswain's Mate Coxswain, but was also commeded four times at Dress Muster, for four different occasions of Life Saving, and was also recommended for a Bronze Star by the late Roger C. Branch, my 2nd Division E-5 Petty Officer, when I disarmed a potentially disastrous 'hang fire on a hot gun', since I was also a 3" 50 1st loader (Army designated 105mm howitzer) at General Quarters.

Judging from your most recent post (above) Bren, you are advised to take your hallucinatory differences about the Bay of Pigs, to the Navy Department or Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta, since you have desperately, repeatedly and hysterically resorted to direct accusations of fraud and prevarication; while those adjectives are in fact found to be applicable to yourself and your name-calling huddle of cronies.


Are you and the most recently arrived despot ('Angry Fist' is it? That 'girl' is indeed a time bomb - 'she' is a he, and is reputed all over the net as an enthusiastically bubbling specialist (costumed in the raiments of a medical authority - while the first law of Medicine is 'Do no harm' ) - in rubber gloving children and making entertaining efforts to blame his specialty on others.) through making a fool of yourself yet?





Best regards,
- Lakota

...so, about this SEAL aviator....

[Lakota]

deadday:

"...so, about this SEAL aviator.... "

What about him?

The answer to your (faux) question is yet another statement of the obvious: he was a SEAL first and an aviator later - a Bird Colonel aviator who did 30 years distinguished Navy service and ostensibly, having grown out of the youthful demands required of SEALs, proceeded into aviation. You do the math.

The fact of his 30 years of active service has likewise been 'evaluated' as questionable.

Your (presumed) 'question' doesn't even meet the definition of any kind of 'interrogative'.

Your posts in this thread reveal you as a creative problem generator.

"...so, what about your axe-grinding, noxious presence in this thread..."

Indeed, you prodigiously insist on finding and defending your low pay-grade coordinates, from which you apparently and obsessively enjoy being publicly pee'd on, from a higher place.

Incidentally, your paramour, 'Angry Fist', excels in impersonating rogue operants, killing cops, lewd poetry, lurking around pediatric wards, and digging the pain.

You go, boy.



Best regards,
-Lakota

[Bren]

Originally Posted by mb5417

Interesting. I actually found another sight that did list Kent Robertson as a crewmember on the Great Sitkin, though it appeared to be a user generated list, as opposed to an official roster. I will have to look it up when I get home.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

You are correct, I actually found another list that does say he was on the Great Sitkin - http://www.greatsitkin.org/CrewList.html#jump_R

So that just leave the whole thing about how the Great Sitkin wasn't at the Bay of Pigs invasion and the Invasion didn't happen in May of 1961.

[Chesafreak]

Originally Posted by Lakota

deadday:

"...so, about this SEAL aviator.... "

What about him?

The answer to your (faux) question is yet another statement of the obvious: he was a SEAL first and an aviator later - a Bird Colonel aviator who did 30 years distinguished Navy service and ostensibly, having grown out of the youthful demands required of SEALs, proceeded into aviation.

There has never been any such rank in the Navy. The Navy doesn't have and never has had a "Colonel" listed in the ranks.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[CDR_Glock]

Originally Posted by Lakota

A 30 year service retired Navy Aviator Seal just told me that there is unconfirmed word that the military at large has submitted a survey to all military personnel, with the question:

"Would you be willing to fire on American citizens?"

This information was openly described as 'unconfirmed'.

If it is true, for what it's worth, I personally don't think there would be many - if any - affirmative answers to such a question, since, firstly - it is a contradiction of the oath every military person is obliged to conform to ('to protect the Constitution from all her enemies, be they foreign or domestic, whomsoever').

Secondly, the question inevitably involves an issue of whether or not military (and police) personnel are willing to fire on their own parents, uncles, aunts, children, cousins, wives, husbands, grandparents, etceteras.

It appears that what we have here, is a handful of crack smoking, blood-thirstiy high-rollers, making up a mad schematic charter to conquer the United States, and the world.

If this 'survey' is true, the very fact that it exists reveals a neo-fascist state of the union's key leaderships and their nightmare motivations.

All readers are cordially invited to confirm, nullify, or otherwise comment on this missive.

Best wishes,
- Lakota

In the case of a terrorist threat where the general public is being harmed by one of our own American Citizens, what do you think the answer should be?

We as a group of armed citizens think about that on a daily basis. Protecting ourself or loved ones in the threat of a felony or deadly force. Certainly, in the policing of a group of people, such as a riot, non-lethal force or crowd control is the answer. However, how about a group of snipers killing our fellow Americans? If called upon, our military may have to take the role of taking them out.

What if there were another terrorist threat of a plane headed for another major center, like a crowded football stadium? Do you think the dispatched F-18s have to think twice about limiting casualties? Several dozen people sacrificed for the fate of thousands if not a hundred thousand, like the cowardice act upon our WTCs in NYC?

No easy answer. I don't think the question posed is for genocide. It is posed for those who have to make one of the toughest decisions in someone's life.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by CDR_Glock

In the case of a terrorist threat where the general public is being harmed by one of our own American Citizens, what do you think the answer should be?

We as a group of armed citizens think about that on a daily basis. Protecting ourself or loved ones in the threat of a felony or deadly force. Certainly, in the policing of a group of people, such as a riot, non-lethal force or crowd control is the answer. However, how about a group of snipers killing our fellow Americans? If called upon, our military may have to take the role of taking them out.

What if there were another terrorist threat of a plane headed for another major center, like a crowded football stadium? Do you think the dispatched F-18s have to think twice about limiting casualties? Several dozen people sacrificed for the fate of thousands if not a hundred thousand, like the cowardice act upon our WTCs in NYC?

No easy answer. I don't think the question posed is for genocide. It is posed for those who have to make one of the toughest decisions in someone's life.

That makes perfect sense and I have no problem with it. However confiscating firearms from US citizens for the UN... not so much.

[GRIMLET]

What exactly does the UN want confiscated? I really don't know the actual terms.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by GRIMLET

What exactly does the UN want confiscated? I really don't know the actual terms.

All firearms that are in private hands.

Have you ever seen the "work of art" in front of the UN building in NYC? It's a pistol with the barrel tied in a knot.

[Angry Fist]

Originally Posted by Lakota

Incidentally, your paramour, 'Angry Fist', excels in impersonating rogue operants, killing cops, lewd poetry, lurking around pediatric wards, and digging the pain.

You go, boy.



Best regards,
-Lakota

Is that you, mommy?