Gun stores don't allow guns! - Page 5

ricklee4570 · 06-20-2012, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by badge315

It seems that you have completely misinterpreted my original statement. I was exaggerating about stupid gun store customers in order to make a point about how much unsafe gunhandling takes place in gun stores, and that that is the reason why many stores have a rule about no guns allowed. Of course not everyone exhibits unsafe gunhandling in a gun store, but it does happen a lot.

I happen to think that the preferred policy for gun stores would be concealed carry is OK as long as it remains in the holster. If you have an objection to even that modest restriction, I think you're being unreasonable.

As far as your inference that I am in league with Sarah Brady and her ilk, if we were having this discussion face to face, I would make you take that back; you have no idea how wrong you are about that.

If we were face to face we wouldnt have made it this far. After the "doofus" and "friggin retard" comments you directed at me the talking would have ended real quick. Tough guys like you are always tough guys on the internet.

NMPOPS · 06-20-2012, 02:06

Never had an issue with any guns stores in Arizona or New Mexico.

ricklee4570 · 06-20-2012, 02:20

My mother lives in Arizona and she says that it is a very gun friendly state.

NMPOPS · 06-20-2012, 04:13

It is generally.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk 2

Bruce M · 06-20-2012, 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

...
"I believe in the 2nd Amendment more than most...but you are not endowed by your Creator with the inalienable right to point a gun at me, even unintentionally"

I certainly hope that you dont believe in the 2nd Amendment more than MOST, if that statement is true we, as gun owners, are screwed!

Are you suggesting that there is some sort of inherent right to point a gun at someone for no valid reason, even if it is inadvertent?

ricklee4570 · 06-20-2012, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce M

Are you suggesting that there is some sort of inherent right to point a gun at someone for no valid reason, even if it is inadvertent?

No, not at all. You have to read the entire statement. He said that a "significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm". And then later said he is an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

I would certainly hope to never hear the President of the NRA say "a significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm." That statement alone is not exactly what I would consider a talking point argument in favor of gun ownership.

badge315 · 06-20-2012, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

No, not at all. You have to read the entire statement. He said that a "significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm". And then later said he is an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

I would certainly hope to never hear the President of the NRA say "a significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm." That statement alone is not exactly what I would consider a talking point argument in favor of gun ownership.

You know, you really are just as dumb as the day is long. Are you so stupid that you can't recognize hyperbole when you see it? Oh wait, you probably don't even know what hyperbole means.

Bruce M · 06-20-2012, 07:01

Well apparently the proportion of owners who handle their guns poorly is significant enough such that more than a few gun stores have a policy effectively prohibiting it...

ricklee4570 · 06-20-2012, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce M

Well apparently the proportion of owners who handle their guns poorly is significant enough such that more than a few gun stores have a policy effectively prohibiting it...

Maybe, maybe not. Could be other reasons (I have heard some mention insurance??)

In my opinion, if you are that concerned about improper gun handling, the firearms dealer business may not be the right business to be in. Personally, I feel people make more of it then there is. I have been in gun stores all across this country a lot, and I dont see bullet holes and a lot of unsafe gun handling. I would like to see the statistics that show all these accidental discharges that we keep hearing about. Im sure it does happen on occasion, just as it happens in the police locker room. To effectively ban CCW is just silly to me. Just as it would be silly to ban loaded firearms in a police locker room.

ricklee4570 · 06-20-2012, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by badge315

You know, you really are just as dumb as the day is long. Are you so stupid that you can't recognize hyperbole when you see it? Oh wait, you probably don't even know what hyperbole means.

What are you, like 14 years old? Does your mother know you come on the internet and call people childish names?

If you are an adult, try acting like one.

badge315 · 06-20-2012, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

What are you, like 14 years old? Does your mother know you come on the internet and call people childish names?

If you are an adult, try acting like one.

Funny, my wife says the same thing.

It's one thing to disagree with my opinion; it's quite another to accuse me of being some kind of elitist anti-gunner based on a single internet post. When outrageous and unfounded accusations are leveled against me, I won't remain silent about them. You implied that I support the actions of Sarah Brady, et al, and that's utter bull****.

If you think unsafe gunhandling doesn't frequently occur in gun stores, then you're not paying attention. If you think unsafe gunhandling is no big deal, then you're a fool.

BTW, how many NRA life memberships have you purchased for your family members, Mr. Patriot?

SCmasterblaster · 06-20-2012, 08:13

The stores have to prohibit guns, Far too many gun carriers unholster and point it at people.

ricklee4570 · 06-21-2012, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by badge315

Funny, my wife says the same thing.

It's one thing to disagree with my opinion; it's quite another to accuse me of being some kind of elitist anti-gunner based on a single internet post. When outrageous and unfounded accusations are leveled against me, I won't remain silent about them. You implied that I support the actions of Sarah Brady, et al, and that's utter bull****.

If you think unsafe gunhandling doesn't frequently occur in gun stores, then you're not paying attention. If you think unsafe gunhandling is no big deal, then you're a fool.

BTW, how many NRA life memberships have you purchased for your family members, Mr. Patriot?

I didnt accuse you of being an anti-gunner elitist. I said you stated something very similar to what I heard Sarah Brady say.

Then you said your statement was meant as "rhetorical" and "hyperbole" but then you continue to assert how frequently unsafe gunhandling occurs in stores. Which part of your original statement was hyperbole? Were you exaagerating to make a point? Which part of your original statement was an exageration? If so, are you still exagerating now when you continue to assert that there are frequent unsafe gun handling occuring in gun stores?

I disagree with your statement "a significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm". So lets go a step further, do you also then believe that a significant portion of these gun owners should not have a CCW? I believe they would have to acatually "handle" a firearm to CCW.

You also stated "The rule is in place to prevent the retarded goobers from pulling out their loaded carry guns...for whatever reason. I suspect that at least some of those complaining the loudest are those very goobers."

Those complaining loudest in my area are affiliated with the NRA in trying to secure the rights of their members to carry CCW in the very gun stores that sold them their guns. We have one in particular here that states on their door "NO CCW, NO GUNS PERIOD ALLOWED IN". I feel this is ridiculous. That is just my opinion. It appears you feel that CCW should be allowed, just no one should remove their weapons in the store. We just differ in our opinions on this.

To call someone a "goober" because they have a different opinion is offensive.

I work with a fellow here who is a self proclaimed "socialist" and proud of it. He likes to argue with me about the right to bear arms. He is actually a debate and forensics instructor and I actually enjoy debating the gun issues with him. He frequently copies posts from internet forums "showing" me how many NRA members actually "agree" with him that we have so many unsafe CCW permit holders out there in public. He uses these very arguments on why we should not have CCW or why we need stricter and tougher gun laws. He likes to say that "most" gun owners are idiots who should never be allowed to own or handle a loaded gun. When he can quote lifetime NRA members saying the same thing it makes it difficult to win a debate with him. Hence, I tend to get a little defensive when I read about how most of us are goobers who should not own a firearm.

If you think unsafe gunhandling doesn't frequently occur in gun stores, then you're not paying attention. If you think unsafe gunhandling is no big deal, then you're a fool.

I feel unsafe gun handling is a big deal. I dont think that those individuals should not own a gun and give up their 2nd Amendment rights. I think they should be educated on safe gun handling. Making them keep their weapons CCW is not going to help them aquire safer gun handling. I still would like to see the statistics that show how many innocent bystanders are shot in gun stores by these unsafe CCW "goobers". Again, if unsafe gun handling is a reason to ban guns in gun stores, then we need to do the same in Police Locker rooms where I have witnessed the same such unsafe practices. (I might ad, very rare occurences in police locker rooms and I in no way want to ban the police from removing their weapons ANYWHERE)

We probably agree more on gun issues than we disagree. Stating our opinions in a civil way is what I believe the forums are for. Interesting fodder. I dont call names because you never know who you may be talking to on here. I know a guy who once argued with Massad Ayoob on here. Pretty funny, I still tease him about it.

badge315 · 06-21-2012, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

I didnt accuse you of being an anti-gunner elitist. I said you stated something very similar to what I heard Sarah Brady say.

You most certainly did accuse me of such...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

This is a great argument to outlaw CCW. "A significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm." Are you related to Sarah Brady?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Your "rhetorical statement" sounds like something I heard Sarah Brady say. Similar thinking,.

Rhetorical or not, it is obvious which side of the argument you are on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

So what is your argument? That nobody should be allowed to CCW in a gun shop? I happen to disagree. I also hear Nancy Pelosi, Sarah Brady and many other anti-gun people use the exact same phrase that you used, that most gun owners shouldnt be....well.....I guess gun owners. Only the priveledged few such as their bodyguards and I guess people like you.

But getting back to the argument at hand...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Then you said your statement was meant as "rhetorical" and "hyperbole" but then you continue to assert how frequently unsafe gunhandling occurs in stores. Which part of your original statement was hyperbole? Were you exaagerating to make a point? Which part of your original statement was an exageration? If so, are you still exagerating now when you continue to assert that there are frequent unsafe gun handling occuring in gun stores?

You know what? You've got me there. I guess I really do believe that a significant portion of gun store customers shouldn't be allowed to handle firearms...or at least the ones who can't manage to maintain any semblance of muzzle awareness and keep from pointing a gun at me. If a person can't handle a firearm without negligently pointing it others then no, they should not be allowed to possess firearms. If you disagree with that, by all means, please explain how there is any flaw in my logic. It's not as if I'm writing letters to my elected representatives demanding stricter gun laws; I'm making an observation, drawing a conclusion from it and expressing it in the form of an opinion, nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

I disagree with your statement "a significant portion of gun store customers should probably never be allowed to handle a firearm". So lets go a step further, do you also then believe that a significant portion of these gun owners should not have a CCW? I believe they would have to acatually "handle" a firearm to CCW.

As a matter of fact, I happen to believe that there are quite a few people out there legally carrying guns who shouldn't be, simply because they don't know what they're doing. And I'm not talking about people without advanced training or marksmanship skills...I'm talking about folks who don't even know how to properly clear a semi-automatic pistol. If they can't even master that simple skill then once again, I don't think those people should be carrying concealed weapons. If you disagree, I'm all ears as to why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

You also stated "The rule is in place to prevent the retarded goobers from pulling out their loaded carry guns...for whatever reason. I suspect that at least some of those complaining the loudest are those very goobers."

Those complaining loudest in my area are affiliated with the NRA in trying to secure the rights of their members to carry CCW in the very gun stores that sold them their guns. We have one in particular here that states on their door "NO CCW, NO GUNS PERIOD ALLOWED IN". I feel this is ridiculous. That is just my opinion. It appears you feel that CCW should be allowed, just no one should remove their weapons in the store. We just differ in our opinions on this.

To call someone a "goober" because they have a different opinion is offensive.

First of all, you have no 2nd Amendment rights on somebody else's private property. In fact, you have no 1st Amendment rights either. A merchant or private property owner can eject you from his premises for virtually any or no reason at all. If you disagree with a store's policy, your remedy is to vote with your wallet and shop somewhere else.

As far as the label "goober", I just picked that one at random. But some schmuck who pulls out his loaded carry pistol in the middle of a gun store is a goober...or moron, or retard, or whatever other monicker you'd prefer to use to describe a stupid person. I'm not going to apologize for that; I don't really give rat's behind if I offend someone without a lick of common sense.

And why would anyone even think it's appropriate to pull out a gun in any kind of store? You sure wouldn't try that in the sporting goods section of a Wal-Mart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

I work with a fellow here who is a self proclaimed "socialist" and proud of it. He likes to argue with me about the right to bear arms. He is actually a debate and forensics instructor and I actually enjoy debating the gun issues with him. He frequently copies posts from internet forums "showing" me how many NRA members actually "agree" with him that we have so many unsafe CCW permit holders out there in public. He uses these very arguments on why we should not have CCW or why we need stricter and tougher gun laws. He likes to say that "most" gun owners are idiots who should never be allowed to own or handle a loaded gun. When he can quote lifetime NRA members saying the same thing it makes it difficult to win a debate with him. Hence, I tend to get a little defensive when I read about how most of us are goobers who should not own a firearm.

Well, I don't think we need stricter gun laws...we need more education about firearms IMO. In fact, I happen to believe that education is the key to solving many of our societal debates. I would like to see safe gunhandling taught in high schools (not holding my breath on that though); that way, the first time somebody purchased a firearm, they'd already have at least a nodding acquaintence with how to safely operate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

I feel unsafe gun handling is a big deal. I dont think that those individuals should not own a gun and give up their 2nd Amendment rights. I think they should be educated on safe gun handling. Making them keep their weapons CCW is not going to help them aquire safer gun handling. I still would like to see the statistics that show how many innocent bystanders are shot in gun stores by these unsafe CCW "goobers".

I'm not in favor of having to restrict anyone's rights either, but to deny that the issue even exists is being intellectually dishonest. You can argue about "rights" all you want, but rights come with responsibilities...and some people don't fulfill theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Again, if unsafe gun handling is a reason to ban guns in gun stores, then we need to do the same in Police Locker rooms where I have witnessed the same such unsafe practices. (I might ad, very rare occurences in police locker rooms and I in no way want to ban the police from removing their weapons ANYWHERE)

Don't get me started on the lack of safe gunhandling skills exhibited by LEOs; we'll be here all day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

We probably agree more on gun issues than we disagree. Stating our opinions in a civil way is what I believe the forums are for. Interesting fodder. I dont call names because you never know who you may be talking to on here. I know a guy who once argued with Massad Ayoob on here. Pretty funny, I still tease him about it.

I know Massad Ayoob personally, but I don't argue with him...he's a better shot than me.

Boot Stomper · 10-28-2012, 18:57

Here is a typical gun transaction.

The Simpsons - Gun Shop - YouTube

Clutch Cargo · 10-29-2012, 05:54

If a gun store does not allow armed folks in their store, they had BETTER provide armed escort to and from your automobile. I'm not being robbed of a new gun I just purchased because of their stupid policy.
As with a bank that does not allow concealed carry, they are responsible for providing customer safety to and from said customer's auto. If they do not, take your business elsewhere.