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Old 05-07-2012, 05:04   #41
TheJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
Ok. Well hank you all, very educative.

As for the 50 states, my meaning is that could not have conceived of a nation this size with this type of factionalism.


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So you're not going to address the questions I asked?

I haven't been rude. I haven't insulted. I have merely explained where I see concerns with your stated positions and asked you some probing questions. I took the time to read your posts and respond and yet you will not extend me the same courtesy.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:15   #42
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Did the NEA infested public indoctrination hive--a.k.a. "public school"--you attended forget to mention Jefferson and the "Louisiana Purchase"? Did they mention the "factionalism" behind the Burr vs. Hamilton duel?

Or did they just stick to the "progressive" script, and teach that DWEeMs r the suck?
We decided years ago ta home school,ta avoid the very thing Fred describes above.The future relies on the children,program the kids,attain their future.'08.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:09   #43
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
1g, while I do appreciate you cogent and non-insulting response, it is not much more than opinion. If you could give citations to historical examples or academic articles that support you opinion I'd enjoy reading them. Other than that, while interesting, it's no more substantial than your claim of my opinion. In other words, I too can say you are wrong and write why I believe so.
"Look up Crispus Attucks, Salem Poor, Prince Esterbrooks, and Peter Salem."

"The Federalist Papers are very clear on this point."

"Once again referring to the Federalist Papers,..."

I'm assuming that you are an adult capable of doing your own reading. I pointed you in the right direction. The 'Federalist Papers' are a series of essays written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay explaining the proposed constitution and why it was written as it was. Considering that those are the men who actually wrote the Constitution, they should show you the mindset of those men, and the purposes for which they wrote the Constitution. And interesting counter-point is the 'Anti-federalist Papers'. this is a series of essay written in response to the Federalist essays and opposing ratification of the Constitution.

For source documentation on the arguments leading up to the Declaration of Independence, the Charles Jenkins book on Button Gwinnett covers some of the debate over slaves. Likewise the James Haw biography of Edward Rutledge provides some insight. A third source is the excellent book by Marty Matthews on Charles Pinckney "The Forgotten Founder". It provides a lot of insight into the thoughts and beliefs of some of the wealthiest men in America as well as being an excellent view of the impact of the Revolution on the lives of the people. You should also join jstor.org, as it is an excellent resource and store of source documents. If you are truly interested in what the writers and signers of the Declaration and Constitution thought, you will find a great wealth of information there.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:22   #44
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greentriple, I've read your many posts on other threads. They seem to be mostly hostile and combative. Left leaning and full of disinformation and misinformation.

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Old 05-07-2012, 14:15   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
What I'm interested in is this:

1) I'm a gun owner
2) I am a strict Bill of Rights Advocate. (my problem with the ACLU for one is their blind eye to the 2nd)
3) I believe in the right to CCW. (with restrictions)
4) I think extreme thinking and blind faith will get you killed.
5) Any government is corrupt. But we need to protect the vulnerable.

Can "we" work together?
1. It is nice that you are a gun owner.
2. So far from this thread, it does not appear that you favor the 2nd Ammendment. You do not appear to agree with "shall not be infringed."
3. Because you do not favor the 2nd Ammendment, you are willing to accept restrictions. What restrictions, and why do we need them?
4. Free thinking is nice.
5. A government is a collection of people. All, some, or none of those people may be corrupt.

What is it that you want?

Do you want the people who participate on GT to favor restrictions on the right to have and carry guns?

I'm fairly left leaning. I might be called progressive. I might be so far left leaning I come all the way back around to the right.

But let me spell out my views on the 2nd Ammendment. If someone is not in jail or otherwise under adult supervision, then they should be able to buy and carry guns. Children and the mentally retarded and mentally ill should be under adult supervision. Criminals should either be in jail or under adult supervision.

If a guy goes to prison and gets out legally, and is not on parole (not under supervision of someone else), then he should be able to buy and carry guns.

Those are my views. Just as FYI.

Now, why do you want to restrict the ownership and carrying of guns?

Oh, I should also mention that I believe people should be able to carry guns anywhere. If a place is too sensitive, such as a courtroom, then they should be required to provide security and a place for you to lock your gun up at the door. They need security checks to keep out guns, if they are going to say "no guns". Otherwise, criminals are going to carry guns there anyway.

If you restrict a law abiding citizen from owning or carrying a gun, the problem is that you are not restricting a criminal. Criminals do not follow the law, by definition. If someone is dangerous to society, they should be put in jail (or put under supervision).

What is it about guns that makes you want special permission required for obtaining them? The law abiding citizen would be made to jump through hoops and probably still be restricted as to things such as where to carry, and how many bullets can be carried, while the criminal follows no such rules. What is gained by making the law abiding citizen jump through hoops or restricting the number rounds held in a magazine?

What possible logical gain is there for society that is worth violating the Constitutional rights? In my opinion, the anti-gun laws show no gain in safety. They save no lives. And, most importantly, even if they did, they still do not justify violating Constitutional rights.

Certainly, lock up the murderers. Lock up people who accidentally shoot someone. But don't violate Constitutional rights just because you are afraid of guns, and afraid to trust your law abiding neighbor with guns

Last edited by ithaca_deerslayer; 05-07-2012 at 20:21..
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Old 05-07-2012, 19:28   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
I'll give you that IF, you put similar restrictions on:

Procreating

Voting

Free speech on the net, TV, or radio

So you must have a NEED to procreate, Vote, or speak freely to the masses, and then register to do so to obtain licenses for those acts.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde



It's a shame the message will fall on deaf ears.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:45   #47
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
So, some of you my hate me already, and that vitriol has inspired this post. I suspect our commonalities are more than our differences, however the divergences are chasms.

What I'm interested in is this:

1) I'm a gun owner
2) I am a strict Bill of Rights Advocate. (my problem with the ACLU for one is their blind eye to the 2nd)
3) I believe in the right to CCW. (with restrictions)
4) I think extreme thinking and blind faith will get you killed.
5) Any government is corrupt. But we need to protect the vulnerable.

Can "we" work together?


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Didn't you say you endorsed restrictions on those scary sawed-off shotguns, because it scares liberals like yourself?

You never answered my question previously too, what makes you think a criminal is going to not saw off their shotgun, if they're already breaking plenty more laws?

What makes you think you have the right to restrict a law abiding citizen who wants to defend his house, and believes it may be easier to do so with a shorter shotgun?

Again, you show that you live in fairy tale land thinking criminals follow laws.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:27   #48
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Scary? I'd like for him, or anyone for that matter, to show me, in the Constitution, (And no it's covered by the 9th.), where people have a "right" to not to be scared. Far too often I hear people say there should be a law or people shouldn’t be allowed to do something because it scares people. Dudes on motorcycles are scary. Big dogs are scary. Big Black men are scary. There should be a law!
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Old 05-08-2012, 19:07   #49
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Scary? I'd like for him, or anyone for that matter, to show me, in the Constitution, (And no it's covered by the 9th.), where people have a "right" to not to be scared. Far too often I hear people say there should be a law or people shouldn’t be allowed to do something because it scares people. Dudes on motorcycles are scary. Big dogs are scary. Big Black men are scary. There should be a law!

I used "scary" to describe his emotions of an inanimate object.

If it's one right we DON'T have in a free society, it's the right NOT to be offended or scared.

I understand "shall not be infringed" very well, and argue the 2nd amendment with anyone who doesn't, until I'm blue in the face.
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Old 05-08-2012, 22:44   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
I used "scary" to describe his emotions of an inanimate object.

If it's one right we DON'T have in a free society, it's the right NOT to be offended or scared.

I understand "shall not be infringed" very well, and argue the 2nd amendment with anyone who doesn't, until I'm blue in the face.
I didn't post that because you used the word scary. I wrote that because you spoke of greentriple using it and the fact that it's a favorite with liberal progressives and FUDS. People with guns are scary (to the sheepely) so no one should be allowed to open carry or have guns out in the open where they "might" scare someone.
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Old 05-08-2012, 22:47   #51
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In an earlier post I wrote of the brilliance of Tomas Jefferson. I just receive this in an E-mail from a Canadian friend and though what better place or time to post it.

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson was a very remarkable man who
started learning very early in life and never stopped.

At 5, began studying under his cousin's tutor.

At 9, studied Latin, Greek and French.

At 14, studied classical literature and additional
languages.

At 16, entered the College of William and Mary.

At 19, studied Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.

At 23, started his own law practice.

At 25, was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.

At 31, wrote the widely circulated "Summary View of the
Rights of British America ” and retired from his law
practice.

At 32, was a Delegate to the Second Continental Congress.

At 33, wrote the Declaration of Independence .

At 33, took three years to revise Virginia ’s legal code and
wrote a Public Education bill and a statute for Religious
Freedom.

At 36, was elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding
Patrick Henry.

At 40, served in Congress for two years.

At 41, was the American minister to France and negotiated
commercial treaties with European nations along with Ben
Franklin and John Adams.

At 46, served as the first Secretary of State under George
Washington.

At 53, served as Vice President and was elected president
of the American Philosophical Society.

At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active
head of Republican Party.

At 57, was elected the third president of the United States .

At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase doubling the nation's
size.

At 61, was elected to a second term as President.

At 65, retired to Monticello .

At 80, helped President Monroe shape the Monroe Doctrine.

At 81, almost single-handedly created the University of Virginia
and served as its first president.

At 83, died on the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the
Declaration of Independence along with John Adams

Thomas Jefferson knew because he himself studied the previous
failed attempts at government. He understood actual history,
the nature of God, his laws and the nature of man. That happens
to be way more than what most understand today. Jefferson
really knew his stuff. A voice from the past to lead us in the future:

John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."
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Old 05-09-2012, 14:19   #52
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I didn't see anything about Jefferson being a community organizer, or being able to "shoot hoops"...

I'm surprised he could get elected with such gaps in his resume.
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Old 05-09-2012, 14:29   #53
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'The right of The People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

Define 'The People' in the above sentence.
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Old 05-09-2012, 15:02   #54
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are you all still ranting and raving? Wow!!

Well just to keep the spirits high, and give me an excuse to take a break from work.
The definition of People can be confusing.... Do you mean people as in group? Do you mean people as in person thus as in corporation? Do you mean people as in person and as some crazies want to define it before conception? Is People only those in the magazine my wife loves so much?
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Old 05-09-2012, 16:27   #55
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Dnftt
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Old 05-09-2012, 16:58   #56
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
are you all still ranting and raving? Wow!!

Well just to keep the spirits high, and give me an excuse to take a break from work.
The definition of People can be confusing.... Do you mean people as in group? Do you mean people as in person thus as in corporation? Do you mean people as in person and as some crazies want to define it before conception? Is People only those in the magazine my wife loves so much?
I warned you about not following the rules. Trolling is against the rules and your last post proves beyond a reasonable doubt that, that is exactly what you’re doing. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Jerry
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