[snowbird.40]

Mas - In an earlier thread you addressed a writers' concern about his first handgun purchase ... he was deciding between a 9mm and .40 caliber. I was puzzled by your final response, that you'd feel better protected by a 9mm with 124+P or 127+P+ hollow points (I believe you suggested Gold Dot) than you would with subsonic 180 grain .40 caliber ammo. Why have you chosen to promote 155 or 165 in .40 caliber compared to the 180 grain round that was the basis for the development of the entire .40 caliber platform? It's my understanding that the FBI uses the 180 grain round, as do many other federal law enforcement agencies, and a friend of mine who just retired from the Border Patrol says they are going to be adopting the 180 grain round also.

In a conversation I had with a technician at Glock, he also recommended the 180 grain round because he says Glock developed their .40 caliber guns around that weight bullet.

Have you learned from the street that the 180 grain round is deficient in stopping the aggressors out there?

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful response.

[Mas Ayoob]

Snowbird, it's not that I have "chosen to promote" anything. I simply gather as much input as I can from people and departments who are using the given product in actual gunfights, to determine how it works.

Glock is correct that they built their .40s around the original .40 S&W load, the subsonic 180 grain. That said, I am aware of NO department which has had reliability problems with the 165 grain or 155 grain full power .40 loads.

Some departments are satisfied with the performance of the 180 grain subsonic .40. Some are not. Among the latter, some have gone to 165 grain at 1140 foot seconds and seen an improvement in the effects of their ammunition on the street. (Tulsa PD comes to mind.) Some have had the 165 grain full speed .40 for many years and found it to be a superb "stopper"; Nashville Metro comes to mind. Some departments have been dissatisfied with the effects of 180 grain subsonic .40 and switched calibers, such as the state police of Pennsylvania and Georgia, both of which went to .45 GAP and, from all indications, still feel they made the right choice in doing so.

Best,
Mas

[snowbird.40]

Thanks Mas. That's good to know. Wish I didn't have 250 rounds of 180 HST on hand, I'd be willing to try the lighter loads. Do you find a preference for the 165 over the 155 among your contacts in LE? I know Federal makes HSTs in both weights.