GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2012, 23:10   #51
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,297
Hollowpoints in 9mm, .40 and .45 will all penetrate about 12-15", sometimes a little more. Round nose bullets in 9mm, .40 and .45 will all penetrate through and through a person easily. And check out box of truth's website. They found that through a windshield, the .45 had the least deflection after penetrating the windshield. And no round was stopped by a car door.

I am so sick of these penetration/caliber war threads. Are you lining people up and executing them, Nazi-style? Are you shooting through walls and doors in your defensive scenario? Are you a cop? Do you really, really, really want to be a cop?

Last edited by WinterWizard; 04-30-2012 at 23:15..
WinterWizard is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 23:15   #52
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
Hollowpoints in 9mm, .40 and .45 will all penetrate about 12-15", sometimes a little more. Round nose bullets in 9mm, .40 and .45 will all penetrate through and through a person easily. And check out box of truth's website. They found that through a windshield, the .45 had the least deflection after penetrating the windshield. And no round was stopped by a car door?

I am so sick of these penetration threads. Are you lining people up and executing them, Nazi style? Are you shooting through walls and doors in your defensive scenario? Are you a cop? Do you really want to be a cop?
I am in Law Enforcement, are you a psychic? .45 ACP, is a lousy round, any way you slice it. Slow, bulbous, has a terrible arc trajectory and has abysmal penetration. Out of the big 3, I'd take them in this order and this grain weight, .40 S&W (135gr - 155gr), 9mm Luger (115gr - 127gr), .45 ACP (165gr - 200gr). Anything else in those three calibers is garbage.

Last edited by Amplified; 04-30-2012 at 23:16..
Amplified is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 23:21   #53
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Okay, time to end this debate.

Here are the best autoloader pistol caliber rounds, with the optimal grain weights and superior commercially available loads.

1. 10mm Auto (135gr) 1,600 fps
2. .357 Sig (115gr) 1,550 fps
3. .40 S&W (135gr) 1,415 fps
4. 9mm Luger (115gr) 1,450 fps
5. .45 ACP (165gr) 1,250 fps

Last edited by Amplified; 04-30-2012 at 23:23..
Amplified is offline  
Old 04-30-2012, 23:25   #54
CDR_Glock
Senior Member
 
CDR_Glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
Is the .40 S&W really all that much more effective than the 9mm? .45 ACP penetration is awfully pathetic, but it's still a good anti-personal caliber. Out of these three calibers, which would be the best one overall?
They're all on equal footing. The advantage of the 9mm is cost, capacity and thickness of the grip. The 45 is already expanded. It will leave a mark. The 40 is a good combination of capacity and size.

I have all three and I carry all three (not at one time). No problem having to depend upon versus another. Ballistics vary upon which length barrel you're talking about and what type of load.
__________________
Lifetime Member of the NRA

My YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/titaniummd
CDR_Glock is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:05   #55
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
I am in Law Enforcement, are you a psychic? .45 ACP, is a lousy round, any way you slice it. Slow, bulbous, has a terrible arc trajectory and has abysmal penetration. Out of the big 3, I'd take them in this order and this grain weight, .40 S&W (135gr - 155gr), 9mm Luger (115gr - 127gr), .45 ACP (165gr - 200gr). Anything else in those three calibers is garbage.
Terrible arc trajectory? Are you shooting at people 100 yards away? Any caliber is point of aim at defensive ranges. And if you need to shoot at someone far away, you should be using a rifle.

135-155gr in .40 and 165-200 gr. in .45 are the worst for penetration in those calibers. 165 or 180 gr. in .40 and 200 or 230 gr. in .45 give you better sectional density in either caliber, hence better penetration, without over penetrating with JHPs.

But can you please site your sources for your claims? Or are they opinion based and biased because you are a cop and are issued .40 S&W?

A .45 FMJ will penetrate about 30 or more inches in ballistics gel an have been known to penetrate through and through a deer and certainly through a person, as can any major caliber. And ALL hollow point defensive rounds are designed to penetrate about 12-15 inches, per FBI protocol and Police demands. And the heavier rounds are less likely to deflect and go off course once they encounter an obstacle, like glass, metal or bone. And if you need barrier penetration, you need heavy bullets or fast rounds, like the .357 Sig or 10 mm.

But to claim that the .45 is slow and ineffective is ignorant. You can run 230 gr. rounds at 950 fps or 165 gr. rounds at 1225 fps if you are a velocity junkie. Or you can run 185 gr. rounds at 1150 fps. But oh, I forgot - 1200 fps is slow and .451" hollow points that penetrate to about 15 inches and open up to .80" are not effective.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

Check out tests 1, 2 and 3.

Windshield, inside-out: Winner .45.
Windshield, outside-in: Winner .45
Car door: Winner all (a car door isn't stopping anything)

Also, look at the FBI testing and average out the penetration numbers and tell me what you find. Most tests show that the penetration numbers on .40 and .45 are nearly identical. The advantage in the .45 is a larger diameter bullet and a heavier bullet that deflects less.

To be honest, I don't know where you get this crap. Maybe go read some stuff and then come back here and speak intelligently. Sorry, there is just no way to candy coat that.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 05-01-2012 at 02:42..
WinterWizard is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:56   #56
M&P Shooter
Metal Member
 
M&P Shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 10,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
Might as well throw the rounds at them with your hand, it'll have a better trajectory and reach the target faster.

Subsonic rounds, suck!
I can't even debate with you anymore because I can tell by your post you know nothing about ballistics at all.
__________________
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death but it's cool because my Glock 23 is loaded with 180gr HST!
M&P Shooter is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:00   #57
M&P Shooter
Metal Member
 
M&P Shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 10,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
I am in Law Enforcement, are you a psychic? .45 ACP, is a lousy round, any way you slice it. Slow, bulbous, has a terrible arc trajectory and has abysmal penetration. Out of the big 3, I'd take them in this order and this grain weight, .40 S&W (135gr - 155gr), 9mm Luger (115gr - 127gr), .45 ACP (165gr - 200gr). Anything else in those three calibers is garbage.
Your right, the 45acp with a 230gr round did really bad against advancing forces in early trench warfare
__________________
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death but it's cool because my Glock 23 is loaded with 180gr HST!
M&P Shooter is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:20   #58
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
And most 9mm shooters keep telling themselves their 9mm are just as good. Confidence in ones gear is important so keep up telling yourself it's all good.

Did I hit a nerve Fred?
OctoberRust is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:47   #59
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
Terrible arc trajectory? Are you shooting at people 100 yards away? Any caliber is point of aim at defensive ranges. And if you need to shoot at someone far away, you should be using a rifle.

135-155gr in .40 and 165-200 gr. in .45 are the worst for penetration in those calibers. 165 or 180 gr. in .40 and 200 or 230 gr. in .45 give you better sectional density in either caliber, hence better penetration, without over penetrating with JHPs.

But can you please site your sources for your claims? Or are they opinion based and biased because you are a cop and are issued .40 S&W?

A .45 FMJ will penetrate about 30 or more inches in ballistics gel an have been known to penetrate through and through a deer and certainly through a person, as can any major caliber. And ALL hollow point defensive rounds are designed to penetrate about 12-15 inches, per FBI protocol and Police demands. And the heavier rounds are less likely to deflect and go off course once they encounter an obstacle, like glass, metal or bone. And if you need barrier penetration, you need heavy bullets or fast rounds, like the .357 Sig or 10 mm.

But to claim that the .45 is slow and ineffective is ignorant. You can run 230 gr. rounds at 950 fps or 165 gr. rounds at 1225 fps if you are a velocity junkie. Or you can run 185 gr. rounds at 1150 fps. But oh, I forgot - 1200 fps is slow and .451" hollow points that penetrate to about 15 inches and open up to .80" are not effective.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

Check out tests 1, 2 and 3.

Windshield, inside-out: Winner .45.
Windshield, outside-in: Winner .45
Car door: Winner all (a car door isn't stopping anything)

Also, look at the FBI testing and average out the penetration numbers and tell me what you find. Most tests show that the penetration numbers on .40 and .45 are nearly identical. The advantage in the .45 is a larger diameter bullet and a heavier bullet that deflects less.

To be honest, I don't know where you get this crap. Maybe go read some stuff and then come back here and speak intelligently. Sorry, there is just no way to candy coat that.
Gosh, golly such dedication to an antiquated caliber! Lol! Did I hurt your inner child? .45 ACP can't penetrate a stick of hot butter at the muzzle!
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:49   #60
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
I can't even debate with you anymore because I can tell by your post you know nothing about ballistics at all.
Oh no! Yes! I cannot ever post again!
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:51   #61
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Your right, the 45acp with a 230gr round did really bad against advancing forces in early trench warfare
230 grain .45 ACP is so slow, once the round detonates in the chamber, the season's change before the round leaves the muzzle! What a stupid round! 230 grain .45 is for novices, armchair commandos and those that will be the first to get dropped in a gun battle.
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 07:55   #62
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
Terrible arc trajectory? Are you shooting at people 100 yards away? Any caliber is point of aim at defensive ranges. And if you need to shoot at someone far away, you should be using a rifle.

135-155gr in .40 and 165-200 gr. in .45 are the worst for penetration in those calibers. 165 or 180 gr. in .40 and 200 or 230 gr. in .45 give you better sectional density in either caliber, hence better penetration, without over penetrating with JHPs.

But can you please site your sources for your claims? Or are they opinion based and biased because you are a cop and are issued .40 S&W?

A .45 FMJ will penetrate about 30 or more inches in ballistics gel an have been known to penetrate through and through a deer and certainly through a person, as can any major caliber. And ALL hollow point defensive rounds are designed to penetrate about 12-15 inches, per FBI protocol and Police demands. And the heavier rounds are less likely to deflect and go off course once they encounter an obstacle, like glass, metal or bone. And if you need barrier penetration, you need heavy bullets or fast rounds, like the .357 Sig or 10 mm.

But to claim that the .45 is slow and ineffective is ignorant. You can run 230 gr. rounds at 950 fps or 165 gr. rounds at 1225 fps if you are a velocity junkie. Or you can run 185 gr. rounds at 1150 fps. But oh, I forgot - 1200 fps is slow and .451" hollow points that penetrate to about 15 inches and open up to .80" are not effective.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/thebuickotruth.htm

Check out tests 1, 2 and 3.

Windshield, inside-out: Winner .45.
Windshield, outside-in: Winner .45
Car door: Winner all (a car door isn't stopping anything)

Also, look at the FBI testing and average out the penetration numbers and tell me what you find. Most tests show that the penetration numbers on .40 and .45 are nearly identical. The advantage in the .45 is a larger diameter bullet and a heavier bullet that deflects less.

To be honest, I don't know where you get this crap. Maybe go read some stuff and then come back here and speak intelligently. Sorry, there is just no way to candy coat that.
This is a funny video and shows the pathetic BB gun level penetration of the .45 "Always Can't Penetrate."

Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:03   #63
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,297
And I've seen tests where the .45 out-penetrated the .40 in these stupid phone book tests. But it's obvious you are here to troll and stir the pot. Have fun with that.

And for your information, most 180 gr. .40 rounds leave the barrel at about 1000 fps. 185 gr. .45 rounds leave the barrel at about 1050-1150 fps. But of course, a smaller, slower, lighter round is bound to be more effective.
WinterWizard is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:10   #64
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
And I've seen tests where the .45 out-penetrated the .40 in these stupid phone book tests. But it's obvious you are here to troll and stir the pot. Have fun with that.

And for your information, most 180 gr. .40 rounds leave the barrel at about 1000 fps. 185 gr. .45 rounds leave the barrel at about 1050-1150 fps. But of course, a smaller, slower, lighter round is bound to be more effective.


Fine then, post one of those videos that doesn't exist and btw you've officially won the dolt award for this thread, congratulations!

Last edited by Amplified; 05-01-2012 at 09:12..
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:15   #65
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
And I've seen tests where the .45 out-penetrated the .40 in these stupid phone book tests. But it's obvious you are here to troll and stir the pot. Have fun with that.

And for your information, most 180 gr. .40 rounds leave the barrel at about 1000 fps. 185 gr. .45 rounds leave the barrel at about 1050-1150 fps. But of course, a smaller, slower, lighter round is bound to be more effective.
I'm well aware of standard as well as +p loading velocities and their respective grain weights.

Last edited by Amplified; 05-01-2012 at 09:29..
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:18   #66
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
.45 ACP

165 gr 1,250 fps
185 gr 1,000 to 1,200 fps
200 gr 1,000 to 1,150 fps
230 gr 800 fps to 1,050 fps

These are approximates and there are of course slower loadings available, especially in that worthless 230 grain weight.

Just for you WinterWhiner. Congratulations!

Last edited by Amplified; 05-01-2012 at 09:20..
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:27   #67
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
The only autoloader pistol calibers that I prefer .45 "Always Can't Penetrate" over are as follows;

.22 LR,MAG,Short
.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.380 ACP/ 9mm Kurtz

Last edited by Amplified; 05-01-2012 at 09:27..
Amplified is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 09:40   #68
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,136
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
I am in Law Enforcement, are you a psychic? .45 ACP, is a lousy round, any way you slice it. Slow, bulbous, has a terrible arc trajectory and has abysmal penetration. Out of the big 3, I'd take them in this order and this grain weight, .40 S&W (135gr - 155gr), 9mm Luger (115gr - 127gr), .45 ACP (165gr - 200gr). Anything else in those three calibers is garbage.
If this were a true statement, then it would be another example of morons hiring morons. You are no LEO, not with your attitutde & lack of general respect for those that know more than you. Good try though. I'll bet you've slain 100s of large animals to prove your point as well huh? Yeah, thought so. Believe what you like, vel alone doesn't kill anything in handguns. Get out of the basement, go shoot something besides wood boards & dry books, just another example of what you don't know about terminal ballistics.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 05-01-2012 at 09:40..
fredj338 is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:04   #69
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
If this were a true statement, then it would be another example of morons hiring morons. You are no LEO, not with your attitutde & lack of general respect for those that know more than you. Good try though. I'll bet you've slain 100s of large animals to prove your point as well huh? Yeah, thought so. Believe what you like, vel alone doesn't kill anything in handguns. Get out of the basement, go shoot something besides wood boards & dry books, just another example of what you don't know about terminal ballistics.

I think it's obvious he's trolling here.

I believe there was another that had an axe to grind with the .45 acp too before he was banned. Maybe it's the same guy?
OctoberRust is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:10   #70
triggerjerk
Senior Member
 
triggerjerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,192
Just get one of each and stop bickering I say

Sometimes I'm in a .45 (G21) mood. Sometimes I am in a 9mm mood.
Once a decade I'm in a .40 SW mood. I stick with HST in all however.
triggerjerk is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 10:51   #71
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
I think it's obvious he's trolling here.

I believe there was another that had an axe to grind with the .45 acp too before he was banned. Maybe it's the same guy?
Yep. Just about everything he says is pointless or off the mark. Time to stop feeding the troll.
WinterWizard is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:01   #72
M&P Shooter
Metal Member
 
M&P Shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 10,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
230 grain .45 ACP is so slow, once the round detonates in the chamber, the season's change before the round leaves the muzzle! What a stupid round! 230 grain .45 is for novices, armchair commandos and those that will be the first to get dropped in a gun battle.
I'm 95% sure you are a super troll looking to start battles for your own amusement and 5% think you might really be this stupid and believe what you post. Either way you are kind of amusing in a Gunkid kind of way
__________________
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death but it's cool because my Glock 23 is loaded with 180gr HST!
M&P Shooter is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:05   #73
M&P Shooter
Metal Member
 
M&P Shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 10,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplified View Post
I am in Law Enforcement
I have a sneaky suspicion this guy could be Gunkid back once again with another new name. I need to what for some more post and check the Survival forum to see if this guy posted crazy stuff over there. Game on Sir
__________________
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death but it's cool because my Glock 23 is loaded with 180gr HST!

Last edited by M&P Shooter; 05-01-2012 at 11:08..
M&P Shooter is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:11   #74
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,306

Last edited by dkf; 05-01-2012 at 11:12..
dkf is offline  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:21   #75
Amplified
Senior Member
 
Amplified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
I'm 95% sure you are a super troll looking to start battles for your own amusement and 5% think you might really be this stupid and believe what you post. Either way you are kind of amusing in a Gunkid kind of way
Aww! Did I hurt your wittle feelings haha! Still doesn't change the fact that the 230 grain .45 ACP round has abysmal hard barrier penetration, and a trajectory similar to a three pointer at a special ed elementary school Basket Ball game!

Last edited by Amplified; 05-01-2012 at 12:32..
Amplified is offline  
Closed Thread


Tags
.40 s&w, .45 acp, 9mm
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:56.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 827
215 Members
612 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42