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Old 04-30-2012, 20:31   #81
SpringerTGO
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Why would the Zimmerman case make anyone re-think whether they should carry?
I would only use a weapon if my life, or my loved ones life, was in danger. If I end up in litigation (or even prison) because of that, oh well.
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Old 04-30-2012, 22:30   #82
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Not at all (to join the chorus). If anything, it shores up my resoluteness in practicing CCW on a daily basis.

A bit of a different magnitude, but after 911, a lot of people cut back on traveling. They were scared. It had the opposite effect on me and my wife. Instead we vowed to travel more. And, so we did... immediately after 911. Incidentally, my wife was in the air when it happened (landing in Hong Kong as the towers were hit).
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Old 04-30-2012, 22:58   #83
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The question I see here is, considering the situation Zimmerman is in from his "self defense" shooting, Would you re-think CCW, carrying, shooting.

That is only part of the question that must be asked by each of us. The more important question (albiet, related) is do you know the circumstances where you will shoot to protect yourself? Each of us has to consider the potential limit we will establish, before we will use deadly force to stop an attacker.

You must know this before it is necessary, and play it over in your mind, so that when that "personal threat line" is crossed, you have already determined what you will stand for, and what you will not. (and we are not police officers or given any court "powers")

This is not a decision that one can make "on the spur of the moment", if you try you will be dead. I believe every police officer has had training, as best as possible, to know when to shoot and when not to. You must make this decision ironclad for yourself prior to an altercation, or you may as well give your gun away. It will be harder not to shoot.

I have been shot at with a high power rifle (he missed). I had considered the possibility of this occurring and had decided what my actions would be long before hand. I am here to tell you how amazed I am (and was) as to how quickly your instinct kicks in ( and how you respond to what was decided previously) without consious effort.

My point here is that you may carry a weapon for protection, but it isn't worth anything if you haven't already determined the point in the situation when you will go on automatic / or use it. If you have to protect yourself, then prepare to live with the outcome.

The important quote to me is: "He who hesitates, dies". (if you "lose", you die)

This does not say that if you are "ticked off" you can/will kill someone. No matter the circumstances, we will have to answer to a court for our actions. Just pre-determine your point of no return, or don't carry. Zimmerman's situation doesn't effect me at all, and neither does the Castle Doctrine, it just cleans up the situation a little.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:59   #84
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Originally Posted by SpringerTGO View Post
Why would the Zimmerman case make anyone re-think whether they should carry? I would only use a weapon if my life, or my loved ones life, was in danger. If I end up in litigation (or even prison) because of that, oh well.
I feel the same way! However, based on comments Iíve heard and read after the Zimmerman case Iíve drawn a few conclusions:

1. Some have not carefully thought about the aftermath and all the possible consequences (emotional, mental, financial)

2. Some have not realized the system is tilted in favor of protecting the rights of the criminal (Iím not implying that Martin was one)

3. Some have not drawn that line and conditioned themselves on what is worth taking an armed stand. The cost can be death, life in prison, disabling and/or permanent injury, financial ruin, etc. The life of a family member is worth those for me; all else, not so much.

If this thread pushes those that have not considered all the possible consequences to carefully evaluate them and incorporate that knowledge into their SD plan, then it is a very good thread.

We are armed, it is not just the criminal that poses a potential danger to our loved ones, if we donít have a plan and some training so do we. We must develop plans that involve those we love, even those that donít carry, so they know to get out of the line of fire if there is a home invasion or a robbery/attack while out and about. There should be a rehearsed sign that when used family would know to step away as it is very likely the one to introduce a firearm in defense of the others will see incoming fire. Research and teach others basic first aid, slowing down blood loss for a minute or two can be the difference between life or death when EMTs are on the way.

Even if all goes as favorable as it possibly can, it is likely to be chaotic.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:10   #85
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Originally Posted by janice6 View Post
The question I see here is, considering the situation Zimmerman is in from his "self defense" shooting, Would you re-think CCW, carrying, shooting.

That is only part of the question that must be asked by each of us. The more important question (albiet, related) is do you know the circumstances where you will shoot to protect yourself? Each of us has to consider the potential limit we will establish, before we will use deadly force to stop an attacker.

You must know this before it is necessary, and play it over in your mind, so that when that "personal threat line" is crossed, you have already determined what you will stand for, and what you will not. (and we are not police officers or given any court "powers")

This is not a decision that one can make "on the spur of the moment", if you try you will be dead. I believe every police officer has had training, as best as possible, to know when to shoot and when not to. You must make this decision ironclad for yourself prior to an altercation, or you may as well give your gun away. It will be harder not to shoot.

I have been shot at with a high power rifle (he missed). I had considered the possibility of this occurring and had decided what my actions would be long before hand. I am here to tell you how amazed I am (and was) as to how quickly your instinct kicks in ( and how you respond to what was decided previously) without consious effort.

My point here is that you may carry a weapon for protection, but it isn't worth anything if you haven't already determined the point in the situation when you will go on automatic / or use it. If you have to protect yourself, then prepare to live with the outcome.

The important quote to me is: "He who hesitates, dies". (if you "lose", you die)

This does not say that if you are "ticked off" you can/will kill someone. No matter the circumstances, we will have to answer to a court for our actions. Just pre-determine your point of no return, or don't carry. Zimmerman's situation doesn't effect me at all, and neither does the Castle Doctrine, it just cleans up the situation a little.
Exactly!

I felt the need to draw that line before I brought a firearm into my home and decided to carry. Iím very aware of my armed status but that firearm doesnít exist unless the line is crossed; for me, it involves my life and that of a loved one. Everything else would receive a similar response as before I carried, that would vary depending on the situation.


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Old 05-02-2012, 11:54   #86
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Originally Posted by mrsurfboard View Post
Not to mention the fact that Zimmerman will be a marked man in jail. The black prisoners will eat him alive.
I don't wanna squeal like a pig!!


I've also reconsidered CCW. I decided that my family can't live without me so I'm 1) going to continue CCWing with a larger pistola and 2) I'm not going to take unnecessary risks like confronting some shady character walking down my street or trying to be the defender of the free world within the confines of my gated community.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:31   #87
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Yes - I rethought it and decided I should carry more often than I do and carry a bigger gun more often. If I have to shoot some hoodie-wearing POS, I don't want people reading in the paper that I did it with a Kel Tec 9mm.


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Old 05-02-2012, 13:24   #88
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I moved this from another thread because it is a topic well worth discussing on its own.
*******************************************
Since the Zimmerman - Martin incident, has anyone rethought the decision to carry?
I now carry one in the chamber.
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Old 05-02-2012, 16:18   #89
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This incident has not changed my thinking about my right to self defense at all.

As for the other issues involved here, none of us really know the true facts of this case, and probably never will.

However, the only person who does will have to live with, and possibly pay a dear price for his actions if he is found guilty, which by the way, I doubt will happen.

For me, this is all about who was the first to start the physical confrontation.
Martin had every right to lawfully walk down the sidewalk.
Zimmerman, also not commiting any crime, was free to ask him what he was doing there, where did he live, etc.
Martin had the right (which he may have) to ignore Zimmerman and go on his way.

At some point, one of these guys initiated the physical confrontation.

What all of us should think about in advance in regards to carrying a lethal weapon, is that just we must not do anything, or act any differently towards anyone else simply because we are legally armed.
Good post, but you lost me on the last paragraph.
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Old 05-02-2012, 16:22   #90
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Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and let the cops get there and do their job. He got himself into a heaping pile for no real reason. I have not reexamined my carry habits, because i would only use my firearm if my hand was forced and my back against the wall. So to speak.
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Old 05-02-2012, 17:00   #91
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Regardless of what the jury says, George Zimmerman's situation has a couple con's that would likely affect anybody.

"Turns out" the person shot wasn't really armed.
Public opinion as well as personal guilt would likely be very different if it turned out say, martin was illegally carrying a weapon.

"Turns out" he was just a kid, only 17. From a media and public opinion standpoint, this does not look good. All other facts aside lets face it, judgement from others would not be so harsh if Martin was older. He has the "shot a kid" thing going for him now.

"Turns out" there is a lot of room for debate, for other people to make their own judgements.
Different stories have come about, I've heard Zimmerman's side that shooting may have been justified, and I've heard the other side that it was not. I wasn't really there.


If my life was put in danger, I'd rather be spun through a media circus than dead. I carry regardless.

There is no duty to retreat in Florida, like there is here in iowa, but i still think all other possibilities aside George did not need to follow the kid. 911 told him not to.

Sad thing is, look at the effect this has on the image of people who choose to carry weapons. I dare all of you to look at the brady campaign's website for their editorials on Zimmerman. It won't make you feel good inside.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:48   #92
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Originally Posted by RussP;18899233
If the circumstances do not please someone, they now know that the effects of[LIST
[*]news media

[*]social media

[*]online petitioning

[*]special interest groups

[*]'other' groups
[/LIST]on authorities and politicians at all levels can be enormous. We have yet to see the results of these exterior influences.
Although "social media" and online anything didn't exist at the time - The Florida V. Alvarez case showed how traditional media (TV / newspapers), public pressure and politics can influence the aftermath of a shooting.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:14   #93
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"Turns out" the person shot wasn't really armed. Public opinion as well as personal guilt would likely be very different if it turned out say, martin was illegally carrying a weapon.
IF it is true that Martin initiated the physical attack, and IF it is true that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk. He did have a weapon - his hands in combination with the sidewalk. I agree that if Martin was "packin' a foty" - Zimmerman would be in a better position.

Quote:
"Turns out" he was just a kid, only 17. From a media and public opinion standpoint, this does not look good. All other facts aside lets face it, judgement from others would not be so harsh if Martin was older. He has the "shot a kid" thing going for him now.
17 is physically and psychologically not a kid. When the media shows pictures of Martin at 12 years old they are trying to influence public opinion. In fact, gang members under 18 are often the "hit men" hoping not be prosecuted as an adult. (Not implying that Martin was involved in a gang, I'm only saying that just because someone is 17 that doesn't mean that they are less likely to be a very real threat than an 18+ year old.)


Quote:
There is no duty to retreat in Florida, like there is here in iowa, but i still think all other possibilities aside George did not need to follow the kid. 911 told him not to.
911 did not tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin. They said - "are you following...." when Zimmerman replied, they said "you don't need to do that". Further - it appears to be true that Zimmerman when told "you don't need to do that" - discontinued following. (Zimmerman responded "Ok" to the instruction, and later doesn't want to give his address because he didn't know where Martin was located and might hear him giving his address).

A lot of people have read much into this- To the extent that Zimmerman broke the law by following and/or disobeying 911; or that this was justification for Martin to initiate an altercation. "You don't NEED to do that" is not the same "don't follow", "stop following" - even if the 911 had the authority - which is doubtful. No 911 dispatcher, Law Enforcement, neighborhood watch, or organized authority of any kind is going to tell a non-LEO/emergency responder to engage in a potentially dangerous situation. Why? - liability. It is not because it is wrong or unlawful (in most instances), it is because if someone is hurt - there may be an implied responsibility to the authority.[/QUOTE]
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:56   #94
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[/FONT][/SIZE]
In my neighborhood we are accustomed to finding out what strangers are doing round here. We follow, ask questions...make dam sure the stranger knows we are watching. I lived here 6 years now and don't remember any theft or property damage.
I understand this, but what do you do if a person whom you are following and/or questioning tells you to pound sand (without initiating a physical confrontation)? People do have a right to be on public streets.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:10   #95
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Folks, please, lets not, no, DO NOT turn this into a rehash of the Zimmerman/Martin shooting.

Post about whether the aftermath of the shooting has impacted any of your decisions about carrying.

Thanks...

Any more posts about the shooting itself will be deleted if not integral to your story.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:11   #96
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I now carry one in the chamber.
I'm surprised this hasn't been a more commonly mentioned or discussed aspect. It is one of the first things that came to mind as information about what supposedly happened surfaced.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:19   #97
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Doesn't this make anyone think and wonder if CCW is even worth it? Not even taking this case into account, but just looking at what happens afterwards, even if you are in a good shoot and the media gets ahold of the story and makes you guilty, your life as you knew it is and probably will never be the same.

The media can sentence you to Hell on Earth for the rest of your life.
If you were about to die, then yes, it's worth it, even if you spend the rest of your life in prison due to a miscarriage of justice. If you are alive, you are alive.

This is has no bearing on Zimmerman or whatever, I have no idea whats going on in his case, but the question is whether it is worth it to defend your life, to stay alive, only to find out that society has forsaken you? Absolutely, yes, you're still alive. I'm having a hard time understanding why this is even a question...

people get too hung up on when they are "allowed" to use their weapon. I think that is the wrong mindset, I hope I never have to use one, ever. I am not looking for a loophole where I can use one...if I'm about to die, that's when to use it, IMO.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:21   #98
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If you were about to die, then yes, it's worth it, even if you spend the rest of your life in prison due to a miscarriage of justice. If you are alive, you are alive.

This is has no bearing on Zimmerman or whatever, I have no idea whats going on in his case, but the question is whether it is worth it to defend your life, to stay alive, only to find out that society has forsaken you? Absolutely, yes, you're still alive. I'm having a hard time understanding why this is even a question...

people get too hung up on when they are "allowed" to use their weapon. I think that is the wrong mindset, I hope I never have to use one, ever. I am not looking for a loophole where I can use one...if I'm about to die, that's when to use it, IMO.
Neither is anybody else here that I am aware of.
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Old 05-03-2012, 14:07   #99
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Originally Posted by HarleyGuy

What all of us should think about in advance in regards to carrying a lethal weapon, is that just we must not do anything, or act any differently towards anyone else simply because we are legally armed.
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Good post, but you lost me on the last paragraph.
I think Harley is saying is that an armed (legal CC/OC) person shouldn't be more confrontational or willfully enter a dangerous situation just because they are carrying a firearm. Carrying a firearm shouldn't make someone more willing to put themselves in a situation where they might need a firearm.

I believe that "we" should change our behavior - someone should be much, much less confrontational (if being confrontational is in their nature) when carrying a firearm.
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Old 05-03-2012, 14:10   #100
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I think Harley is saying is that an armed (legal CC/OC) person shouldn't be more confrontational or willfully enter a dangerous situation just because they are carrying a firearm. Carrying a firearm shouldn't make someone more willing to put themselves in a situation where they might need a firearm.

I believe that "we" should change our behavior - someone should be much, much less confrontational (if being confrontational is in their nature) when carrying a firearm.
I know I am.

For example, I witnessed an automobile accident recently where the at-fault driver, some stupid teenage guy, was driving extremely recklessly and dangerously and caused the accident that could have VERY easily resulted in serious bodily harm to others. As I walked up on the scene immediately prior I told him exactly what I thought of the manner in which he was driving. Had I been carrying, I would have refrained...which probably means I ought not have said it in the first place...but I'm not perfect.
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