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Old 04-30-2012, 14:17   #21
OctoberRust
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Placement. Not a big difference between them truth be told. Some .45 guys hate this, since they're spending almost 2x the amount of money on ammo compared to the 9mm guys. (no, not counting reloading)

Fact of the matter is, and like others have mentioned, handgun is a mediocre stopper. It should be used as a last resort, and even then should be used to either

1.get yourself out of the situation
2. get yourself to a bigger gun IE shotgun or rifle.


But since you asked my opinion on caliber, and what's a good anti-personell round, I'd opt for 12 gauge 00 buckshot with 2 and 3 quarter inch shells. That's 9x 9mm balls traveling at 1325 fps.

My 2nd load of choice would be a 1 oz slug (.74ish) caliber in diameter, clocked in at 1600 fps, you know, if i really need penetration.
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Old 04-30-2012, 14:37   #22
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I'm leaning towards the .40 S&W out of these three. With Double Tap's 135 grain load, it's getting over 1,400 fps out of a 4" barrel. Pretty good!
Actually it gets 1375 fps out of a 4" barrel. It has to be shot out of a 4.5 or longer barrel to achieve 1400 fps.
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Old 04-30-2012, 14:58   #23
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Caliber wars are nothing more than "my dad is bigger than your dad" arguments. Everyone wants to think what they have is the best. You'll notice that people that have several different calibers understand that it is the shooter and not the gun or ammo that is the most effective. The best caliber is the one that you shoot the best with and are most comfortable with.
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Old 04-30-2012, 16:07   #24
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Placement. Not a big difference between them truth be told. Some .45 guys hate this, since they're spending almost 2x the amount of money on ammo compared to the 9mm guys. (no, not counting reloading)
:
And most 9mm shooters keep telling themselves their 9mm are just as good. Confidence in ones gear is important so keep up telling yourself it's all good.
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Old 04-30-2012, 18:03   #25
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all 3 will do the job. I like the 165 grain CorBon in .45 ACP. IT KICKS!
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Old 04-30-2012, 18:40   #26
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Caliber wars are nothing more than "my dad is bigger than your dad" arguments. Everyone wants to think what they have is the best. You'll notice that people that have several different calibers understand that it is the shooter and not the gun or ammo that is the most effective. The best caliber is the one that you shoot the best with and are most comfortable with.
Caliber debates usually turn into most people trying to justify their purchase based on internet tales from other people trying to justify their tales based on no facts other then shooting at blocks of gel. Bottom line is the 40cal & 45acp are a better choice for someone who is not recoil sensitive to a little more snap. A bigger bullet will do more damage against soft tissue and organs. If a 9mm and 45acp jhp both fail to expand the 45acp is still going to make a larger wound channel and if they both expand the 45acp will still make a larger wound channel. Now most people will say "not much of a difference in diameter" but in a fight for my life I will take any edge I can get, even if it's a very small edge that's still better then nothing.

The 9mm is a small high speed round that doesn't have the momentum behind it like the 180gr 40 or 230gr 45acp. Don't get me wrong shot placement is everything and that's why I practice with my G23 which is my 24/7 carry gun and my 1911 5" 45acp and I can hit just as good with them from self defense distances as I can with my CZ 75B 9mm which I never carry because I don't care for the 9mm as a self defense round when I can carry my G23 and get high capacity in a 9mm size weapon but with a 180gr jhp.
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:21   #27
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Screw all of this debate, I'll just open carry an AR-50A1 on my back everywhere. I wonder if that'll get any attention? Haha!

Last edited by Amplified; 04-30-2012 at 19:26..
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:25   #28
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I always prefer the highest velocity loadings in every caliber.
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:30   #29
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Caliber debates usually turn into most people trying to justify their purchase based on internet tales from other people trying to justify their tales based on no facts other then shooting at blocks of gel. Bottom line is the 40cal & 45acp are a better choice for someone who is not recoil sensitive to a little more snap. A bigger bullet will do more damage against soft tissue and organs. If a 9mm and 45acp jhp both fail to expand the 45acp is still going to make a larger wound channel and if they both expand the 45acp will still make a larger wound channel. Now most people will say "not much of a difference in diameter" but in a fight for my life I will take any edge I can get, even if it's a very small edge that's still better then nothing.

The 9mm is a small high speed round that doesn't have the momentum behind it like the 180gr 40 or 230gr 45acp. Don't get me wrong shot placement is everything and that's why I practice with my G23 which is my 24/7 carry gun and my 1911 5" 45acp and I can hit just as good with them from self defense distances as I can with my CZ 75B 9mm which I never carry because I don't care for the 9mm as a self defense round when I can carry my G23 and get high capacity in a 9mm size weapon but with a 180gr jhp.
180 gr totally sucks in .40 Smith. Too slow! Use 135 gr or give up your .40 and go up to .45 ACP where the 185 gr has better ballistics. Why in the heck would you want a subsonic round?
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Old 04-30-2012, 19:32   #30
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Really? Caliber wars in the title? A discussion that is held over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over?
What he said!!!


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Old 04-30-2012, 19:58   #31
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10mm might be a better choice than all the others if:

1) You don't CC - Model 20 and even 29 are not small pistols. Fine for home defense though.
2) You reload - factory stuff is harder to come by locally and expensive compared to 9 or 40
3) You like flexibility - 10mm comes in all flavors, from 40 S&W ballistic clones to nuke loads
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Old 04-30-2012, 20:18   #32
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180 gr totally sucks in .40 Smith. Too slow! Use 135 gr or give up your .40 and go up to .45 ACP where the 185 gr has better ballistics. Why in the heck would you want a subsonic round?
Federal HST 180gr 40cal performs very well.
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.
Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0 0.788 101.56%
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Old 04-30-2012, 20:20   #33
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Federal HST 180gr 40cal performs very well.
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.
Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0 0.788 101.56%
Perhaps you should just carry a slingshot, the shot will be traveling faster than those rounds. Sigh.
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Old 04-30-2012, 20:21   #34
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Federal HST 180gr 40cal performs very well.
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.
Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0” 0.788” 101.56%
Why would you want something going only 850 - 1,000 fps, when you can have something going up to 1,450 fps with the same barrel length and same diameter? It makes about as much sense as eating a pile of poop over a filet mignon. Some people had to have been dropped on their heads, repeatedly.

Last edited by Amplified; 04-30-2012 at 20:22..
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Old 04-30-2012, 20:30   #35
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Perhaps you should just carry a slingshot, the shot will be traveling faster than those rounds. Sigh.
Your not making any sense to me? I can have a 180gr round with lower recoil then the 135gr round and get 13" of penetration and .78" expansion with less recoil. I rather have a heavier bullet slowly grinding to a halt being propelled by it's momentum from the extra weight then a lighter fast bullet zipping in expanding to fast. Some bullets perform better at certain weights like the 230gr 45acp out of a 1911 5" The 180gr round was designed for a 4" barrel weapon and it works just fine.
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Old 04-30-2012, 20:56   #36
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9mm and .45 for me!
G26, G19 and G21 mi personal favorites!
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Old 04-30-2012, 21:04   #37
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9mm and .45 for me!
G26, G19 and G21 mi personal favorites!
G21 loaded with 230gr jhp's is a awesome combo!
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Old 04-30-2012, 21:04   #38
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They all suck, but any port in a storm is what a sidearm is about.. The biggest difference in these calibers is the opinions that follow them... The shooter that can remain composed for that last moment to sink 2-3 shots where they need to go will win everytime.. A well trained and accurate marksman that can continue to operate under pressure will make almost any weapon more lethal than a keyboard commando is with a rail gun...

With that said, I just ordered a CCW in 9mm... I picked a 9mm due to slightly more capacity in a small handgun to make me feel better, but equally important is the 9mm is more affordable which allows me more practice and practice means effectivness...

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Old 04-30-2012, 21:06   #39
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With proper JHP ammo, all service calibers perform equally the same.
Yep. I have a preference for 357SIG, though.
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Old 04-30-2012, 21:13   #40
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Federal HST 180gr 40cal performs very well.
All bullets performed well in Heavy Clothing. Federal HST again demonstrated the designed expansion characteristics and outperformed all tested rounds for expansion.
Bullet Caliber/Weight Penetration Expansion Retained Weight
Federal HST 40 S&W 180 gr. 13.0 0.788 101.56%
Might as well throw the rounds at them with your hand, it'll have a better trajectory and reach the target faster.

Subsonic rounds, suck!
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