GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2012, 07:49   #81
Just1More
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,152
It would depend what race the guy was.
Just1More is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 11:39   #82
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwm View Post
If you hear gun shots, your inaction has probably already cost a clerk their life.
No, the murderer is the one who cost the clerk his life in that scenario and no mere human being can ascertain what another will do before the fact unless the actor announces his intention prior to the act.

One of the problems we face in our society is the shifting of moral and legal responsibility onto those who don't bear that responsibility. And under the scenario I presented I may suffer guilt after-the-fact for not being clairvoyant and preventing the murder but I am in no way the one morally responsible who "cost" the clerk his/her life.

What would my responsibility be (without knowing the robber's intentions) should I fire at the perp and his weapon discharge a deadly round into the clerk? Talk about after-the-fact guilt ... ! To say nothing about the possible legal/financial responsibility should both the victim and the perp (and who knows, maybe even the authorities) decide I acted negligently.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 13:49   #83
3000fps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 782
Here you go!

What to do during a robbery -


Last edited by 3000fps; 04-28-2012 at 13:50..
3000fps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 14:29   #84
jpa
CLM Number 268
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Las Vegas NV
Posts: 10,410
Send a message via AIM to jpa Send a message via Yahoo to jpa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
SYG laws are irrelevant in the scenario you posted. The proper questions of justifications are (a) are you allowed to use lethal force in response to a forcible felony and (b) are you allowed to act on behalf of a third party.

Beyond that, I would choose the course of action most likely to protect innocent life, based on the totality of the circumstances.
Even further than that, even if the law states you COULD take action, should you? I think calling 911 and being a good witness would be the most prudent course of action unless the robber starts blasting. Then I think you could probably be safe to shoot back.
__________________
Big Dawg #1408, TT #1408
Moto Club #1408, GSSF Member, NRA RSO
NRA Benefactor Member
jpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 19:42   #85
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 24,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpa View Post
Even further than that, even if the law states you COULD take action, should you? I think calling 911 and being a good witness would be the most prudent course of action unless the robber starts blasting. Then I think you could probably be safe to shoot back.
If nothing else it probably is the prudent financial course of action.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 19:51   #86
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 24,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
It is very rare for a justified shooter to hire or need a lawyer here. Maybe it works different in different states, but even before we had a statute preventing arrest, they gave a statement, went/stayed home and got a grand jury result in a few weeks, end of story. I've even seen a case where the police loaned one a spare gun while his was in evidence.
Here I agree with that - in the shootings in which the lines are clear between who is the good guy and who is the felon an attorney is not necessary. My problem is that in more than a few shootings it seems to me the lines are not clear.

At the risk if being tacky, I am quite certain that Zimmerman thought his shooting was rather clear cut. My guess though is that if he could reset the clock he probably would not have offered much to the police without his attorney present. (Of course if he could turn the clock back, I am guessing he might have turned it back a bit further than that.)
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 19:53   #87
Lockback
Polymerlicious!
 
Lockback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhikdavis View Post
I would point to the No Guns sign and announce you're not supposed to have that in here.

Then launch a barrage of pork and beans cans.
Lockback is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 17:01   #88
aldematt57
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
Well perhaps the reason I was alluding to the carry rational of self defense is because that would be the primary reason one would be carrying a sidearm. Unless that is they are Paul Kersey (AKA Charles Bronson in Death Wish) and looking for a fight or perhaps a Dudley Doright out looking to foil crime.

I am not looking to pee in your corn flakes. You make good points. However one should know what is behind the door they are about to open if they should choose to act. These actions for some need to be weighed against their potential impact upon the actor and their family.

e.g. "There's Billy's dad, you know the guy who killed someone at the 7-11 earlier this year. He must be unstable plus he runs around with a gun. I keep my Tommy away from his kids now."

For the record I was not in any way attempting to diminish the abilities of the private citizen or put them in position of subservience to LEOs. Nor do I believe that your average LEO is any better able to deal with the situation. However that LEO is in an entirely different position when the feces hits the fan. If they acted in what they believed at the time was good faith there will be an entire department that stands behind them.
It's not my intention to get in a pissing match with you on this, but I have to refute a few of your statements.
First:Your suggestion that anyone with a CCP is trying to be "Mr. Crimefighter" is absurd. It is the exception to the rule. Most people with any semblance of conscience would at least consider the use of lethal force if the life of someone other than themself is being threatened. It's a matter of conscience, as well as a matter of possessing the ability to act accordingly. Not everyone can and that is understandable. Vigilante? Nah. Vigilant? Yes, definitely.
Second: Is it really a consideration that someone, who acts to protect the life of someone who is being threatened, be concerned because the neighbors perception is that you are whacked? Really? I mean, I for one, would not give two ****s about what someone says about me if I was fortunate enough to help a fellow citizen in need under the threat of death or bodily harm. If that were the case, many of us law abiding citizens who have a CCP would never have gotten one in the first place because we would have been too concerned with what liberal neighbor, Miss Jones says about us.

Last edited by aldematt57; 04-29-2012 at 17:03..
aldematt57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 07:54   #89
beatcop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 1,901
When you have a scenario posed here, anyone with a gun thinks they are qualified to answer. You may be "armed", but that is the the lowest level on the scale.

You have people posting who are at different stages in their lives. When I was 20 something I'd say blast away. 20 years later...that may not be the BEST choice.

It's the "can vs have to". I CAN shoot a lot of crooks, but do I HAVE to? If you are in a "HAVE to" scenario there won't be much thought involved if you have trained your brain to tell the difference between the two.

car ownership does not mean competent driver
guitar owner does not mean musician
gun owner does not mean you have a clue
beatcop is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:19.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,037
318 Members
719 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31