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Old 04-22-2012, 20:52   #41
Allfal
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Originally Posted by ZombieKing View Post
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.
I have been following that blog and the updates. It seems that they put some serious work into it and reference sources. It shows very clearly why GZ should never have been charged and why this charge should be dismissed at the immunity hearing. It's a great source of information.
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Old 04-22-2012, 20:55   #42
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Check update #11.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...edia-evidence/
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Old 04-22-2012, 23:37   #43
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Saw it. They are pretty much tearing apart Benjamin Crump (Martin family attorney).
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:11   #44
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Great read, the blog.

MONEY TALKS. "Follow the Money" as Deep Throat said. Everyone is being played at the cost of one youngsters life to date and one young mans freedom and pending legal bills. Maybe his life as well.

The registered trademarking of the late sons name thing was revealing to moi.

All that is needed is ONE guilty plea somewhere, on any charge, for payday to arrive and ju$tice is only a chosen jury away.

Think Mommy and Daddy will write a best selling book on their ordeal and make a million dollars? Writing books is hard work I understand. I do wish Z would write one with M. Ayoob doing play by play and courtroom legal-beagle analysis... (might be a good learning tool for future CCW classrooms and help defray Z's legal costs along the way)
Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.

Mr. & Mrs. Martin are wise to take the appropriate legal steps to restrict others from using the tragic killing of their son as a vehicle for commercial gain.

Will they "write a book?" Possibly. Will they use a ghost writer? That is entirely up to them. Many fine books have been written by people who relied on ghost writers to help in the process of actually getting their thoughts on paper. If zimmerman does write a book, fine. Whether or not he will be able to profit from any book he might write will be entirely dependent upon what the jury decides.

As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:18   #45
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As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

Glad you have made up your mind about the case. You saved so much time waiting for those pesky facts. Sorry to hear that his actions, as reported so far, don't meet up to your standards. Omniscience is such a burden
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:24   #46
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Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:00   #47
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.
A poor woman go to the store to buy some food for her children.

She is carrying a concealed weapon.

She is attacked by a much larger man who bangs her head on the concrete.

She shoots and kills the attacker.

Under the old law she would have to proved that she tried to retreat. Under the 'stand your ground' law she does not.
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Old 04-25-2012, 17:51   #48
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If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they'll concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 04-26-2012 at 01:52..
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Old 04-25-2012, 23:18   #49
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If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.

Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:48   #50
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Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.
I was referring to the actions by either person that led to the fight, not the fight itself.

And the lead detective initially wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter and signed an affidavit to that effect. The state attorney (I believe) instructed him not to after a few hour's worth of investigation, ignoring possible evidence and eye-witness testimony. The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."

The fact is, until the trial is over (if there is one), and all the facts and evidence are public record, no one can speak intelligently on the matter.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 04-26-2012 at 01:55..
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:27   #51
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Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."
"I love how everyone" or "I find it funny" are usually tip offs that the writer is going to say the obvious. And, you do not fail us with "jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public." Of course, people can only offer opinion on what has been made public. They can not make opinions on info they do not know.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:53   #52
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I was referring to the actions by either person that led to the fight, not the fight itself.

And the lead detective initially wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter and signed an affidavit to that effect. The state attorney (I believe) instructed him not to after a few hour's worth of investigation, ignoring possible evidence and eye-witness testimony. The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."

The fact is, until the trial is over (if there is one), and all the facts and evidence are public record, no one can speak intelligently on the matter.

Talk about assumptions and spinning the situation to meet a preconceived conclusion.

Your statement implies that an investigator knows more about what meets legal standards than the prosecutor in that jurisdiction. In my area it is the District Attorney that makes that call, not a Detective.

Your overall naivette about the purpose of the new "special" prosecution team is rather telling, as to you experience or awareness of such an "operation". How many times, in high profile cases has a " States attorney" or even a Federal Attorney been brought in that DIDN'T result in a trial, genenrally based on an allegeded "new view" or "Fresh evidence"? These are Dog and Pony shows to appease a segment of the population and actually represent a misuse of our criminal justice system for political purposes. There have been dozens of cases, since this incident, of Blacks shooting Blacks all over the Country, but those case won't get "Special Prosecutors" and "State's Attorneys and Investigators" because Al Sharpton and the media don't care about them.

This incident WAS handled according to the law, and you really should have watched the lead investigtator's testimony at the bail hearing for Zimmerman. Talk about shakey grounds for prosecution.

Last edited by countrygun; 04-26-2012 at 10:04..
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Old 04-26-2012, 21:37   #53
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Talk about assumptions and spinning the situation to meet a preconceived conclusion.

Your statement implies that an investigator knows more about what meets legal standards than the prosecutor in that jurisdiction. In my area it is the District Attorney that makes that call, not a Detective.

Your overall naivette about the purpose of the new "special" prosecution team is rather telling, as to you experience or awareness of such an "operation". How many times, in high profile cases has a " States attorney" or even a Federal Attorney been brought in that DIDN'T result in a trial, genenrally based on an allegeded "new view" or "Fresh evidence"? These are Dog and Pony shows to appease a segment of the population and actually represent a misuse of our criminal justice system for political purposes. There have been dozens of cases, since this incident, of Blacks shooting Blacks all over the Country, but those case won't get "Special Prosecutors" and "State's Attorneys and Investigators" because Al Sharpton and the media don't care about them.

This incident WAS handled according to the law, and you really should have watched the lead investigtator's testimony at the bail hearing for Zimmerman. Talk about shakey grounds for prosecution.

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Old 04-28-2012, 17:14   #54
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I think Gabe makes some interesting points:


http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/...-shooting.html


I like his line "Captain America, Defender of the Innocent" because so many HCP holders think it's a badge.
You pay attention to that CRIMINAL?!
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:05   #55
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The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.
That's pretty much what Alan Dershowitz has said...who is decidedly not on the side of gun owners, and is certainly a more accomplished jurist than Angela Corey.
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Old 05-10-2012, 14:20   #56
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That's pretty much what Alan Dershowitz has said...who is decidedly not on the side of gun owners, and is certainly a more accomplished jurist than Angela Corey.
Which is why, in one my previous posts, I said, "Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake."

I agree with Dershowitz on the 2nd degree charge. Should have been manslaughter. The prosecution is going after the wrong angle in this case. They are attacking the profiling angle. They should be, from the start, going after the illegal use of deadly force angle.

There is no doubt that Zimmerman was getting beat down by Martin. But what caused the fight is the issue, not who had the upper hand in the fight. Like I've said before, if Zimmerman was indeed the instigator, you forfeit your claim to self defense at that point, along with stand your ground.
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Old 05-10-2012, 15:51   #57
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I don't see how you can charge somebody with manslaughter when they've already stated that they shot the other person intentionally.
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:05   #58
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Voluntary manslaughter...
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Old 05-11-2012, 13:43   #59
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Politics in action: witnesses on the scene confirmed Zimmerman was the guy on the ground crying for help while Martin (on top) pounded his skull into the ground. That's the reason Martin was not initially charged. Had it not gone public, that would have been the end of it. Now the "special investigator" card is played so they can charge him and drag him through a trial where he will be acquitted.... and then they can blame the jury. What a crock.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-ma...3/26/id/433912

Quote:
Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story
The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that Trayvon Martin decked George Zimmerman with one punch and then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk, according to a newly released version of the events that led up to the 17-year-old’s death.


Read more on Newsmax.com: Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!
Quote:
Trayvon Martin: Second Eye Witness Saw Zimmerman on Ground Moaning Crying for Help – Zimmerman: Martin Tried to Take His Gun

March 26, 2012
By Maggie
A 13-year-old boy, whose name I will not print, although it is out there online now, has come forward in the Trayvon Martin – George Zimmerman case.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2012/...-take-his-gun/



Quote:
As the investigation into the investigation of the killing of Trayvon Martin continues, new facts are beginning to surface, and the Fox affiliate in Orlando found an anonymous witness who spoke to them in George Zimmerman‘s defense, saying he saw the man who was mostly the aggressor in the struggle fall on the grass, dead. Tampa Bay’s Fox 13 reported Friday that the witness, who agreed only to be identified as “John,” saw the struggle and it was his testimony the police used to let Zimmerman go free (John spoke to Fox 13′s Orlando Affiliate, Fox 35 on February 27th). His statements to the cops were instrumental because Sanford police say those screams you hear, the anchor notes, are Zimmerman’s and not Martin’s.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous...rge-zimmerman/

Last edited by Alizard; 05-11-2012 at 13:51..
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Old 05-12-2012, 19:10   #60
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Politics in action: witnesses on the scene confirmed Zimmerman was the guy on the ground crying for help while Martin (on top) pounded his skull into the ground. That's the reason Martin was not initially charged. Had it not gone public, that would have been the end of it. Now the "special investigator" card is played so they can charge him and drag him through a trial where he will be acquitted.... and then they can blame the jury. What a crock.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-ma...3/26/id/433912


http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2012/...-take-his-gun/



http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous...rge-zimmerman/
Why don't you wait until all the evidence is presented before posting your slanted opinion, Alitard. You people who cast final judgement on cases before trial make me sick.
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