[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by RowdyatHeart

Alright since has Martin vs. Zimmerman has been relegated to fur ball status, can we continue? I will start.

I went into this first thinking Zimmerman should have been arrested. The more I checked into this story, the more I believe Zimmerman broke no laws. I concede I let the media and emotion get the best of me.

Is he guilty of being stupid? You bet. A wise man would have let the Police handle the situation. A wise man would have stayed in the vehicle. Stupidity is not a crime in this case.

I have been reminded again of how destructive the mainstream media is to our nation. They conveniently fail to remind their audiences that Zimmerman will go before a Grand Jury.

Zimmerman defended himself and Martin was one ugly thug looking person at 17. He was no longer the innocent looking kid. I believe the shooting was righteous.

[countrygun]

2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin
We will see if he did


"We will see if he did" ?????


You have got to be kidding, right?

Where did the recording come from?

Who released the recording?

That is ridiculous.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

I contend that at the end of the day it will all hinge on if Zimmerman physically assaulted Martin, and that led to the fight that got Zimmerman on his back and Martin shot. Anyone on the street can yell and call you a criminal, but that does not give you the right to beat the crap out of them and ground and pound them. The might try to pin an ethnic intimidation wrap on him, but pretty much unless they can prove Zimmerman was brandishing his firearm, or physically touched Martin before Martin attacked, I can't see how zimmerman can be found guilty of anything.

I can’t see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the “full” video that was played only once on TV. I can’t see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I can’t see how OJ walked. I hope I’m wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I won’t be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then I’m just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we don’t get what we want we’ll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldn’t but it always seems to.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Jerry

I can’t see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the “full” video that was played only once on TV. I can’t see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I can’t see how OJ walked. I hope I’m wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I won’t be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then I’m just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we don’t get what we want we’ll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldn’t but it always seems to.

I can tell you how OJ walked

When Mark Furhman was caught in a lie and when the glove didn't fit.

In this case, IF the prosecution tries to establish a racist motive it will open the door for defense rebuttal, and from what we have heard about Zimmerman thus far, racial motive is not going to stand long in the minds of jurrors.

IMO this case IS, in the jury room, going to be about FACTS, real honest FACTS, and not assumptions and opinions that internet ex-spurts pass off as facts. Some EVIDENCE, not assumption or fantasy, or "must have" or "obviously" is going to have to show that Zimmerman physically started the fight for him to be convicted. This is not a Civil Court with a "Preponderance of evidence shows that "most likely"..... This is a Criminal Court, and Zimmerman is innocent until it is "Proven beyond a reasonable doubt". Unfortunately there are too many people who think the product of their own imaginations is some kind of "proof". By the time the jury sets to deliberation they will have been educated on the difference beyond the level of internet Ex-spurts.

[JuneyBooney]

Originally Posted by Jerry

I can’t see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the “full” video that was played only once on TV. I can’t see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I can’t see how OJ walked. I hope I’m wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I won’t be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then I’m just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we don’t get what we want we’ll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldn’t but it always seems to.

I agree with you but it is because the laws are "ass backwards". Did you see the Black guy in Baltimore the other day that was acquitted for running down the White kids? Pretty disgusting to me.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by JuneyBooney

I agree with you but it is because the laws are "ass backwards". Did you see the Black guy in Baltimore the other day that was acquitted for running down the White kids? Pretty disgusting to me.

It’s not the law, although I agree there are many screwed up laws, it's the liberal judges and cockeyed juries that are being selected. I’ve only been allowed to sit on one jury, civil case. All one juror was worried about was getting it over with and back to work. He was afraid he’d lose his job. Another couldn’t wait to get back to the bottle. One woman was so afraid she’d make the wrong decision that I literally convinced her which way to vote. I could go on but there were only two of us that actually knew right from wrong and we literally convinced all the others to vote our way. I never want my life to be in hands of jury like the one I was on.

I was called and questioned for a criminal case. I was asked if I believed in the Hat Crime Law. I said no. I was then asked why. I told the DA that it was a useless law. He asked what I meant. I told him that criminals don’t believe they will be caught so it’s not a deterrent. I also said that to add time to a person’s sentence because they committed a crime against someone of another races was ludicrous. A crime is a crime no matter whom it is committed against and should carry the same penalty for all. I believe what REALLY upset the applecart is when I looked him straight in the eye and with emphases said, beside the law is not being applied equally. I was promptly dismissed.

[Bilbo Bagins]

Originally Posted by countrygun

2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin
We will see if he did


"We will see if he did" ?????


You have got to be kidding, right?

Where did the recording come from?

Who released the recording?

That is ridiculous.

I'm not talking aboput Zimmerman's 911 call, I'm talking about if Martin made a 911 call. If it exist that evidence would be released at the prelimary hearing.

I hate to bet on this case, but I would bet that the whole alleged cell phone exchange between Martin and the girlfriend was BS. Again its all a wait and see at the prelims.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

I'm not talking aboput Zimmerman's 911 call, I'm talking about if Martin made a 911 call. If it exist that evidence would be released at the prelimary hearing.

The recording of that call (if it existed) would be in the hands of the same people that released the recording of Zimmermans call. Since they released one call to the public it would seem rather incongruous to not have released the other.

I think that is grasping at "Well, it could of happened"

[Bilbo Bagins]

Originally Posted by Jerry

I can’t see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the “full” video that was played only once on TV. I can’t see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I can’t see how OJ walked. I hope I’m wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I won’t be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then I’m just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we don’t get what we want we’ll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldn’t but it always seems to.

Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

OJ, unfortunately it was a matter of "Reasonable Doubt". If the Zimmerman case does not get dropped at the two prelims (Styandard Prelim and the Stand Your Ground hearing), and it goes to trial, Reasonable doubt will also play in Zimmerman's favor.

Zimmerman should get off, its just a matter if it will dropped at the prelims , or he will be found not guilty because they cannnot convict him of 2nd Degree murder or manslaughter because there is reasonable doubt.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

OJ, unfortunately it was a matter of "Reasonable Doubt". If the Zimmerman case does not get dropped at the two prelims (Styandard Prelim and the Stand Your Ground hearing), and it goes to trial, Reasonable doubt will also play in Zimmerman's favor.

Zimmerman should get off, its just a matter if it will dropped at the prelims , or he will be found not guilty because they cannnot convict him of 2nd Degree murder or manslaughter because there is reasonable doubt.

I completely agree with this asessment.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins

Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

I’m not a LEO, have never been a LEO and don't pretend to be a LEO. Did you see the video? The Whole video? I did! He was hopped up on drugs. They tried to get him cuffed and he picked up a cop and threw him. The cops jumped on him and brought him to his knees. He threw them off and stood back up. They knocked him down by hitting him in the legs with their sticks. He stood back up and continued fighting them. They started whaling on him and he went down. He kept trying to get back up so they kept hitting and started kicking him (that’s the part they kept playing on TV over and over again) and he just wouldn’t stay down. What do you do when a guy leads you on a high speed chase, wrecks and then keeps fighting you while you’re trying to make an arrest? I guess they should have just said, oh well have a nice night and be on your way.

I’ve seen police brutality and police abuse. What they did, what I saw in the FULL vidio wasn’t abuse it was justifiable force.

Why did he get off and why did the cops get convicted. Because the animals rioted and scared the hell out of the juries.

[ZombieKing]

Someone above said Zimmerman ignored the dispatchers advice to not follow Martin and got out of the car to follow Martin anyway.

This is wrong.

Zimmerman was already out of the car. And when he was told he didn't need to follow Martin he said OK and all indications are that he did indeed stop. Why? Because he spent the next minute on the phone talking to the dispatcher and during that conversation told the dispatcher he didn't know where Trayvon was.

[ZombieKing]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

[Baba Louie]

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

Great read, the blog.

MONEY TALKS. "Follow the Money" as Deep Throat said. Everyone is being played at the cost of one youngsters life to date and one young mans freedom and pending legal bills. Maybe his life as well.

The registered trademarking of the late sons name thing was revealing to moi.

All that is needed is ONE guilty plea somewhere, on any charge, for payday to arrive and ju$tice is only a chosen jury away.

Think Mommy and Daddy will write a best selling book on their ordeal and make a million dollars? Writing books is hard work I understand. I do wish Z would write one with M. Ayoob doing play by play and courtroom legal-beagle analysis... (might be a good learning tool for future CCW classrooms and help defray Z's legal costs along the way)

[Jerry]

Self explanatory.

http://youtu.be/LONUecnsMb8

http://youtu.be/LONUecnsMb8

[Allfal]

Originally Posted by ZombieKing

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

I have been following that blog and the updates. It seems that they put some serious work into it and reference sources. It shows very clearly why GZ should never have been charged and why this charge should be dismissed at the immunity hearing. It's a great source of information.

[Allfal]

Check update #11.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...edia-evidence/

[ZombieKing]

Saw it. They are pretty much tearing apart Benjamin Crump (Martin family attorney).

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by Baba Louie

Great read, the blog.

MONEY TALKS. "Follow the Money" as Deep Throat said. Everyone is being played at the cost of one youngsters life to date and one young mans freedom and pending legal bills. Maybe his life as well.

The registered trademarking of the late sons name thing was revealing to moi.

All that is needed is ONE guilty plea somewhere, on any charge, for payday to arrive and ju$tice is only a chosen jury away.

Think Mommy and Daddy will write a best selling book on their ordeal and make a million dollars? Writing books is hard work I understand. I do wish Z would write one with M. Ayoob doing play by play and courtroom legal-beagle analysis... (might be a good learning tool for future CCW classrooms and help defray Z's legal costs along the way)

Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.

Mr. & Mrs. Martin are wise to take the appropriate legal steps to restrict others from using the tragic killing of their son as a vehicle for commercial gain.

Will they "write a book?" Possibly. Will they use a ghost writer? That is entirely up to them. Many fine books have been written by people who relied on ghost writers to help in the process of actually getting their thoughts on paper. If zimmerman does write a book, fine. Whether or not he will be able to profit from any book he might write will be entirely dependent upon what the jury decides.

As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Brucev

As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

Glad you have made up your mind about the case. You saved so much time waiting for those pesky facts. Sorry to hear that his actions, as reported so far, don't meet up to your standards. Omniscience is such a burden

[Glockdude1]

Originally Posted by Brucev

Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.

Americas Most Wanted.........

[Dexters]

Originally Posted by Brucev

As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

A poor woman go to the store to buy some food for her children.

She is carrying a concealed weapon.

She is attacked by a much larger man who bangs her head on the concrete.

She shoots and kills the attacker.

Under the old law she would have to proved that she tried to retreat. Under the 'stand your ground' law she does not.

[WinterWizard]

If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they'll concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by WinterWizard

If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.

Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.

[WinterWizard]

Originally Posted by countrygun

Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.

I was referring to the actions by either person that led to the fight, not the fight itself.

And the lead detective initially wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter and signed an affidavit to that effect. The state attorney (I believe) instructed him not to after a few hour's worth of investigation, ignoring possible evidence and eye-witness testimony. The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."

The fact is, until the trial is over (if there is one), and all the facts and evidence are public record, no one can speak intelligently on the matter.