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Old 04-15-2012, 17:01   #1
matthewmurray706
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Home defense ammo for CCW?

I was wondering if anyone has input on using home defense rounds in your concealed carry gun. Is it a good idea to have 1 or 2 home defense rounds at the top of the magazine?

If there are no bystanders, it would only make sense to have hollow points. But for example, if you are in a restaurant and someone opens fire, would it be best to return fire with a home defense round so you have better chances of a bullet not over penetrating?

I carry a Glock 26 (9mm). I have speer gold dot hollow points. I currently have Federal Guard Dog rounds in my home defense gun which is a .40. I was considering buying home defense rounds in 9mm for my CCW.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:18   #2
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Im not an expert by any means so I'm going to watch this thread for other opinions. But I don't leave home with out my Winchester HydraShock rounds in my G30. I wouldn't carry hardball on the street if I ever use it I want to stop the threat.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:35   #3
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Well you can't really predict any situation you might be in and you probably will never have to use your gun in your life time for self defense. So picking out a ammo that might be good for one situation might not be as good for another.
I just loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense FTX bullets and I think that will be a good choice for most situation you might come across.

Or you can just carry 4 clips with different rounds in each and then you will have options depending on your situation, just be sure to label your mags
If you do have to shoot someone, you have to use your own best judgement to determine if it is safe to shoot in that direction, no ammo is going to solve that issue.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:35   #4
matthewmurray706
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@MC45 Federal Guard Dog ammo looks like a FMJ round, but it acts like a hollow point. If you were to cut open the tip of the bullet, there is a cavity in it like a hollow point. It expands when it hits and contains plastic fragments so it does not over penetrate. So its perfect for home defense but if it was to be used against a threat who is further away, it may or me not be as effective.

I can't find any information anywhere about use of this ammo for outside the home.

Last edited by matthewmurray706; 04-15-2012 at 17:36..
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:38   #5
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Matt - I am not sure I understand the question. I use the same ammunition for home defense as I do for CCW. In some instances people have used a high energy low penetration round for home defense, like a hot 135gr in the 40 and use a heavier weight for concealed carry.

I do not know much about Guard Dogs. What makes them a home defense round?
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:42   #6
matthewmurray706
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Originally Posted by Simplejack View Post
Well you can't really predict any situation you might be in and you probably will never have to use your gun in your life time for self defense. So picking out a ammo that might be good for one situation might not be as good for another.
I just loaded up with some Hornady Critical Defense FTX bullets and I think that will be a good choice for most situation you might come across.

Or you can just carry 4 clips with different rounds in each and then you will have options depending on your situation, just be sure to label your mags
If you do have to shoot someone, you have to use your own best judgement to determine if it is safe to shoot in that direction, no ammo is going to solve that issue.
That was the only example I could come up with at the time. But the same would apply if I am sitting in the living room and someone busts in through the front door. If a bullet over penetrates, if could hit a neighbor's house across the street.

You do bring up a good point though. You do need to determine if its safe to shoot in a certain direction. I have seen numerous videos where hollow point cavities actually get clogged with clothing and act as a FMJ round.

Thank you for the input.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:43   #7
matthewmurray706
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Originally Posted by Mc45 View Post
Im not an expert by any means so I'm going to watch this thread for other opinions. But I don't leave home with out my Winchester HydraShock rounds in my G30. I wouldn't carry hardball on the street if I ever use it I want to stop the threat.
Federal Guard Dog ammo looks like a FMJ round, but it acts like a hollow point. If you were to cut open the tip of the bullet, there is a cavity in it like a hollow point. It expands when it hits and contains plastic fragments so it does not over penetrate. So its perfect for home defense but if it was to be used against a threat who is further away, it may or me not be as effective.

I can't find any information anywhere about use of this ammo for outside the home.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:45   #8
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Well if you live in a apartment or you need the safest round for innocent bystanders, there is Glaser ammo

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Old 04-15-2012, 17:51   #9
matthewmurray706
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Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Matt - I am not sure I understand the question. I use the same ammunition for home defense as I do for CCW. In some instances people have used a high energy low penetration round for home defense, like a hot 135gr in the 40 and use a heavier weight for concealed carry.

I do not know much about Guard Dogs. What makes them a home defense round?
Federal Guard Dog is a low penetration round. I carry a 9mm with a Speer Gold Dot +P rounds. I am still learning about different ammo. As far as I know, there is a great chance that 9mm +P hollow points can over penetrate. Is this true? If so, would using a low penetration round in your concealed carry weapon ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and hit someone else?

If there is a good chance of over penetration with +P ammo, then I was considering loading 1 or 2 rounds of low penetration rounds. The third shot and on would be +P hollow points.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:56   #10
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Well if you live in a apartment or you need the safest round for innocent bystanders, there is Glaser ammo

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I have actually looked at this brand. I plan to buy these. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 04-15-2012, 17:56   #11
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I think your getting a little too technical with your ammo..

I think there is only 2 types of rounds you need to look into.

1. if you live in a apartment
2. for self defense outside your home.

Keep a clip full for home use and a clip full for when you go out
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Last edited by Simplejack; 04-15-2012 at 17:57..
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Old 04-15-2012, 18:07   #12
matthewmurray706
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I think your getting a little too technical with your ammo..

I think there is only 2 types of rounds you need to look into.

1. if you live in a apartment
2. for self defense outside your home.

Keep a clip full for home use and a clip full for when you go out
Lol. Ok. You make a great point. Keep it simple.

I'll continue what I am doing now. Keep hollow points in my carry weapon and home defense ammo in my home defense pistol.
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Old 04-15-2012, 18:38   #13
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My carry ammo is a premium JHP and my HD ammo is the same. Doesn't make sense to me to use these "low penetration" rounds at all, they will still go through walls and be lethal.

FYI the Federal EFMJ/Guard Dog bullet is not a JHP. All it really is, is a copper jacket with plastic in the tip and lead at the base. The jacket is thin and the plastic deforms greatly to cause expansion. I've seen videos where this bullet tumbles and it will sail through two pieces of drywall with minimal velocity loss.

Last edited by dkf; 04-15-2012 at 18:41..
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Old 04-15-2012, 21:01   #14
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Originally Posted by matthewmurray706 View Post
Federal Guard Dog is a low penetration round. I carry a 9mm with a Speer Gold Dot +P rounds. I am still learning about different ammo. As far as I know, there is a great chance that 9mm +P hollow points can over penetrate. Is this true? If so, would using a low penetration round in your concealed carry weapon ensure that the bullet will not over penetrate and hit someone else?

If there is a good chance of over penetration with +P ammo, then I was considering loading 1 or 2 rounds of low penetration rounds. The third shot and on would be +P hollow points.
I think I may understand now. If your Speer +p would hit a wall board it would pass through and the Guard Dog would expand and penetrate less. I think you go with whatever would be the best round to stop the BG, unless you live in an apartment as mentioned. In that case you may want to go with a shotgun.
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Old 04-15-2012, 21:44   #15
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My EDC G32 has 124gr GDHP as well as my G31. My G26 has GDHP 124gr & my G22c has Hornady Critical Duty 175gr. These are great all around bullets for these guns, I see no need to change rounds for EDC SD or Home SD.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
...I use the same ammunition for home defense as I do for CCW....
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
My carry ammo is a premium JHP and my HD ammo is the same...
this +2

I'm thinking that if it can't go through sheet rock, it's gonna have trouble with clothes, muscle, bones and such as well.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:44   #17
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this +2

I'm thinking that if it can't go through sheet rock, it's gonna have trouble with clothes, muscle, bones and such as well.
Yep. If it has enough energy to stop a BG, it has enough energy to tear through several layers of drywall. Those Glaser safety slugs are no exception, as they can definitely fail to penetrate deeply enough in a BG to give a reliable stop. Avoid them.

If you live in apartment complex, determine what your shoot/no shoot lines are. In my old apartment I had one upstairs neighbor, one to the right (facing out from my bedroom) and one across from the breezeway. Brick exterior walls, except for vinyl siding in the breezeway. My ideal shoot lane was to the left side of the main hall (backstopped by 2-3 interior walls and brick), with less than ideal lanes being down the mail hall (backstopped by 1-2 interior walls and vinyl, or by the steel-clad exterior door), or to the right (interior wall - possibly concrete, per maintenance, but could never confirm).

Know your weapon, and be sure of your shot before you take it.

Modern, high-end JHP can and will over-penetrate on limb hits, might overpenetrate on straight, soft-tissue hits (ie: abdomen), and is very unlikely to on solid upper-chest hits.

Side note: Strangely enough, many rifle calibers will penetrate less interior walls than pistol rounds will, as they tend to tumble (and sometimes fragment, with some 5.56 loads) after striking an interior wall, and will shed their velocity very quickly after that. Pistol rounds may expand, or can clog with drywall material and maintain their energy much more effectively.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:59   #18
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I pack the nastiest HPs I can find. I want something that can penatrate then expand to the size of a washtub. I currently am testing and carring critical defense.
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Old 04-16-2012, 13:05   #19
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Unless forced to carry something other than a good JHP, you always carry JHP, vs FMJ, always. Your chance of ending a fight sooner than later is greater & the chance of ricochetts & over penetration is reduced.
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Old 04-16-2012, 15:05   #20
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Unless forced to carry something other than a good JHP, you always carry JHP, vs FMJ, always. Your chance of ending a fight sooner than later is greater & the chance of ricochetts & over penetration is reduced.
Yep. The faster the BG is put out of the fight, the better for everyone involved, including bystanders or neighbors.
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