GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2012, 11:59   #51
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
The nation spoken of here being the Jews (Kingodm of Judah) and those scattered abroad being the House of Israel, and anyone who wishes to graft in with them.

"I have come only for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel".

Seems straight forward to me.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 13:48   #52
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
The nation spoken of here being the Jews (Kingodm of Judah) and those scattered abroad being the House of Israel, and anyone who wishes to graft in with them.

"I have come only for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel".

Seems straight forward to me.
Yes,that is my point. That does not match the elitist philosophy you have been expressing. God has been much more gracious and inclusive.

When Jesus came the first time Israel was gathered into one "House".

I John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Last edited by Vic Hays; 04-09-2012 at 13:49..
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 15:08   #53
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Yes,that is my point. That does not match the elitist philosophy you have been expressing. God has been much more gracious and inclusive.
What elitist philosophy?
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 15:56   #54
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
What elitist philosophy?
The philosophy that God somehow favors the nation of Israel above others. After the flesh. Actually you are right in there with all of the mainline evangelicals, but it doesn't make it right.

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

I Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Last edited by Vic Hays; 04-10-2012 at 16:09..
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 20:12   #55
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
You misunderstand.

There are two parts to Israel. The physical nation, made up of Jews, which is still under the Mosaic Covenant and the House of Israel. Both are in covenant, just different ones.

The House of Israel is anyone brought into covenant thru Messiah. This is where people make a mistake. They want to replace the Jews. The Jews are still in covenant with God, just not the New Covenant. They can't be replaced. Most of the Bible deals with the reunification of these two Houses.

13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Yes, they went into Diaspora for exactly 2520 years per Ezekiel and came back to the Land right on que.

Ezekiel also prophecied that the Northern Kingdom of Israel would go into Diaspora for 2730 years, starting with Assyrian captivity in 721bc. Do the math. Per Hosea, this House would be brought back into covenant not on a national basis, but a personal one. "...not a grain shall fall to the earth..." And in the place they were called not My people they shall be called the People of God. Great shall be the day of jezreal (replanting).

Just as the children of Israel were led out of bondage, together with a mixed multitude, and brought to the Land, so all Israelites along with a mixed mulititude was led out of spiritual bondage and will also be led to the Promised Land, this time by Yeshua the Messiah instead of Yeshua (Joshua, same name) Son of Nun.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-10-2012 at 22:38..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 20:57   #56
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,704


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
What elitist philosophy?
That is a rhetorical question, right?
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 22:39   #57
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
That is a rhetorical question, right?
Why are you here? And that's not rhetorical.

Are you upset that I follow what the Bible actually says? That I'm not an atheist? That I don't believe "all paths lead to God"? What?

All I hear from you is sarcasm and disdain for God. Why are you here?
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-10-2012 at 22:43..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:42   #58
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,704


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Why are you here? And that's not rhetorical.

Are you upset that I follow what the Bible actually says? That I'm not an atheist? That I don't believe "all paths lead to God"? What?

All I hear from you is sarcasm and disdain for God. Why are you here?
you have to ask?

Religious Issues
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 14:43   #59
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
You misunderstand.

There are two parts to Israel. The physical nation, made up of Jews, which is still under the Mosaic Covenant and the House of Israel. Both are in covenant, just different ones.

The House of Israel is anyone brought into covenant thru Messiah. This is where people make a mistake. They want to replace the Jews. The Jews are still in covenant with God, just not the New Covenant. They can't be replaced. Most of the Bible deals with the reunification of these two Houses.

13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Yes, they went into Diaspora for exactly 2520 years per Ezekiel and came back to the Land right on que.

Ezekiel also prophecied that the Northern Kingdom of Israel would go into Diaspora for 2730 years, starting with Assyrian captivity in 721bc. Do the math. Per Hosea, this House would be brought back into covenant not on a national basis, but a personal one. "...not a grain shall fall to the earth..." And in the place they were called not My people they shall be called the People of God. Great shall be the day of jezreal (replanting).

Just as the children of Israel were led out of bondage, together with a mixed multitude, and brought to the Land, so all Israelites along with a mixed mulititude was led out of spiritual bondage and will also be led to the Promised Land, this time by Yeshua the Messiah instead of Yeshua (Joshua, same name) Son of Nun.
These things you are saying have already happened Per Hosea and Peter.

I Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Sorry the Mosaic covenant has ended with the rejection of Jesus.

The physical according to the flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 15:09   #60
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
These things you are saying have already happened Per Hosea and Peter.

I Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Sorry the Mosaic covenant has ended with the rejection of Jesus.

The physical according to the flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
The House of Israel was dissolved. No more a nation. They were brought back individually by Messiah. That is an ongoing process btw. It won't be complete till He returns and the knowledge of Him is as the waters covering the earth.

The House of Judah was never dissolved from the Mosaic Covenant. They are still under that covenant. That's just plain common sense. Look at the nation of Israel. Do you need more proof?

This doesn't make them under the New Covenant. However, are you going to say that they can't have eternal life?

1. They were being given eternal life before Messiah came.
2. They haven't rejected the Messiah. They have rejected Jesus, a pseudo Messiah. It is no different that someone who has never heard of the Messiah. How can the reject what they have never heard about? Will they be First Fruits? No. This doesn't mean they are lost anymore than a Christian who gets baptized and never obeys a single commandment.

I keep repeating this and I guess I'll have to keep repeating until He takes the veil away from you.

God already told Israel that His Torah and Feasts were forever commands. Over and over again He told them. He also told them that if any prophet says they are not to be kept, even if that prophet performs miracles, that he is not to be believed. Ala, the Christian Jesus. A torahless, non kosher, Sabbath breaking, messiah. They are right to reject that version of the Messiah. This brings us to the fact that there is only one Law for the Jew and the gentile, a commandment in both Testaments. A command that you can't seem to grasp the meaning of. The meaning being:

If the Jews are supposed to do it, so are you.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-11-2012 at 15:14..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 18:03   #61
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
According to Paul the ones who rejected Christ are not Israel any longer. It is only the faithful that are called Israel.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 20:44   #62
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
You still don't seem to be getting what I'm saying. I'll be more blunt.

The Christian Jesus is NOT the Messiah of the Bible. Yes, people are saved in His name. But it's because of His grace, not their theology.

There is no way to condemn a Jew for rejecting Jesus. There's no reason to. There's no reason why a Jew should believe in Jesus. Sorry, but that's the truth. Start teaching them about the Messiah in the Bible and you'll have an argument.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

And remember, this is concerning the Jews AT THAT TIME. When the real Messiah was known. Not now.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 22:40   #63
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
You still don't seem to be getting what I'm saying. I'll be more blunt.

The Christian Jesus is NOT the Messiah of the Bible. Yes, people are saved in His name. But it's because of His grace, not their theology.

There is no way to condemn a Jew for rejecting Jesus. There's no reason to. There's no reason why a Jew should believe in Jesus. Sorry, but that's the truth. Start teaching them about the Messiah in the Bible and you'll have an argument.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

And remember, this is concerning the Jews AT THAT TIME. When the real Messiah was known. Not now.
Everyone will be judged. Election does not mean the nation of Israel has an automatic in. They are surrounded by hostile nations who are determined to destroy them.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.

What about just before the second coming? The king of the south (traditionally the caliph) takes over Jerusalem.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 08:30   #64
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
Everyone will be judged. Election does not mean the nation of Israel has an automatic in. They are surrounded by hostile nations who are determined to destroy them.
Agreed

Quote:
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
These passages cover a lot of time. It's hard to say when they will happen. The Bible does say that half the city will be taken. The other half won't. It's the taking of the land that brings God's anger up in His face and unleashes Messiah to return.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-12-2012 at 08:31..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 20:45   #65
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Agreed



These passages cover a lot of time. It's hard to say when they will happen. The Bible does say that half the city will be taken. The other half won't. It's the taking of the land that brings God's anger up in His face and unleashes Messiah to return.
If they had accepted Jesus things would have come to their fruition long ago. God of course knew they would not as a nation. Salvation is an individual thing not a national or even denominational thing.

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Last edited by Vic Hays; 04-12-2012 at 20:49..
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2012, 13:55   #66
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
If they had accepted Jesus things would have come to their fruition long ago. God of course knew they would not as a nation. Salvation is an individual thing not a national or even denominational thing.
It is both an individual and a national event. Passover and Atonement.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 09:22   #67
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Some will get the victory over the Mark of the Beast. Do you suppose they might know who the Beast is and what the mark is?

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are your works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are your ways, you King of saints.
15:4 Who shall not fear you, O Lord, and glorify your name? for you only are holy: for all nations shall come and worship before you; for your judgments are made manifest.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 14:31   #68
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Why do you suppose they sing the song of Moses and the Lamb? There is a reason. "To the Torah and the Testimony....."

You may want to look at Wormwood.

Rev 8:10 And the third messenger sounded, and a great star fell from the heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the fountains of water,
Rev 8:11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.


Deu 29:18 lest there should be among you a man or woman or clan or tribe, whose heart turns away today from יהוה our Elohim, to go and serve the mighty ones of these nations, lest there should be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood.

Pro 5:4 But in the end she is bitter as wormwood, Sharp as a two-edged sword.
Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death, Her steps lay hold of the grave.
Pro 5:6 She does not consider the path of life; Her ways are unstable – you do not know it.
Pro 5:7 So now, listen to me, you children, And do not turn away from the words of my mouth.

Jer 9:13 And יהוה says, “Because they have forsaken My Torah which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice,1 nor walked according to it, Footnote: 1See at 7:23.
Jer 9:14 but they have walked according to the stubbornness of their own heart and after the Baʽals, which their fathers had taught them.”
Jer 9:15 Therefore thus said יהוה of hosts, the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl, “See, I am making this people eat wormwood, and I shall make them drink poisoned water.

Amo 5:6 “Seek יהוה and live, lest He break out like fire upon the house of Yosĕph, and shall consume it, with no one to quench it in Bĕyth Ěl.
Amo 5:7 “O you who are turning right-ruling to wormwood, and have cast down righteousness to the earth!”

Wormwood is the spirit of disobedience. It refers to breaking the Torah. The Torah is Life, Wormwood is death.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-14-2012 at 14:32..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 14:39   #69
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
I have been interested to find out exactly what wormwood is. I came across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_absinthium

I had no idea it was an actual plant, and its usages.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 10:32   #70
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Why do you suppose they sing the song of Moses and the Lamb? There is a reason. "To the Torah and the Testimony....."

You may want to look at Wormwood.

Rev 8:10 And the third messenger sounded, and a great star fell from the heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the fountains of water,
Rev 8:11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.


Wormwood is the spirit of disobedience. It refers to breaking the Torah. The Torah is Life, Wormwood is death.
My study of Revelation has led me to believe that wormwood in this case is a corrupted gospel that leads to death.

The great star that fell from heaven is lucifer. It falls on the fresh water ( the Gospel) which is the source of life. It becomes bitter and then becomes a source of death.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 10:35   #71
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
My study of Revelation has led me to believe that wormwood in this case is a corrupted gospel that leads to death.

The great star that fell from heaven is lucifer. It falls on the fresh water ( the Gospel) which is the source of life. It becomes bitter and then becomes a source of death.
Ironically, the plant is also used as part of an intoxicant. So, there might even be a deeper meaning to your concept as well.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 10:38   #72
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,419
Photo of the Mark Of The Beats

I never believed in this stuff, but just goes to show you absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Religious Issues

Randy
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 11:16   #73
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,631
Quote:
My study of Revelation has led me to believe that wormwood in this case is a corrupted gospel that leads to death.
Just as long as it has nothing to do with Torah right?

Quote:
The great star that fell from heaven is lucifer. It falls on the fresh water ( the Gospel) which is the source of life. It becomes bitter and then becomes a source of death.
And why must this be future? Did Yeshua not say that He saw satan fall from heaven?

Everyone always wants to put all of Revelation in the future. This is why they are deceived.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 04-15-2012 at 11:19..
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 15:54   #74
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,704


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Why do you suppose they sing the song of Moses and the Lamb?
cause they don't know the words to "Stairway to Heaven"?
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2012, 16:00   #75
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
Just as long as it has nothing to do with Torah right?

And why must this be future? Did Yeshua not say that He saw satan fall from heaven?

Everyone always wants to put all of Revelation in the future. This is why they are deceived.
You seem to be reading a lot into what I posted that I did not say. I am not a futurist or preterist or a secret rapturist.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 627
174 Members
453 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42