Glock Talk
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04-11-2012, 10:11
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 14
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open carry vs. concealed carry vs. brandishing
I have had a CC permit for 25 years but am only now really getting interested in the politics of the subject. When I got my permit, the sheriff said that if anyone saw me carrying, I could be charged with brandishing. I have been reading many threads on open carry. There may be an obvious answer to this question but I don’t see it. If I were carrying in a IWB holster and someone saw the gun because I accidently exposed it, could that just be considered open carry or is that brandishing? Or am I way off? Was my sheriff nuts?
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04-11-2012, 10:16
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#2
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Dungeon Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 6,922
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We need to know what state you live in.
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04-11-2012, 10:18
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 14
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Sorry, Pennsylvania
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04-11-2012, 10:52
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,099
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I'd bet the sherriff was referring to intentional open carry/attention getting, not accidentally showing the gun.
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04-11-2012, 11:31
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Shelocta, Pa.
Posts: 111
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No such thing as brandishing in Pa. What county in Pa. did this take place?
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04-11-2012, 11:38
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,255
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I just OCed into a nice little restaurant in NH. No problem from anywhere/anyone. 
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04-11-2012, 12:06
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#7
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EMT-B
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Waynesboro, VA
Posts: 29,252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jud325
No such thing as brandishing in Pa. What county in Pa. did this take place?
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Apparently one where the sheriff feels the need to discourage citizens from exercising their rights by giving them false information to intimidate them. I wonder if he has his "boys" haul in anyone who "brandishes" for harassment purposes.....
Eric Holder should look into that.
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04-11-2012, 12:45
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 914
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I don't know what your states laws are exactly but I do know OC is legal there. Generally if a state allows open carry someone seeing the print or full exposure of your gun accidentally is no big deal.
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Saying someone open carries for the attention is like saying someone concealed carries for the opportunity to shoot a criminal. Neither statement is true.
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04-11-2012, 13:13
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#9
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Mellennuum#3936
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Rebel South
Posts: 3,784
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what are the elements of "brandishing" as written in your criminal code. That would be a good starting point for friendly discussion.
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"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
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04-11-2012, 13:28
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireForged
what are the elements of "brandishing" as written in your criminal code. That would be a good starting point for friendly discussion.
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Different states have different laws. In Michigan we use the dictionary definition.
Brandish:
1. To wave or flourish menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously.
According to one judge in the state of Michigan for someone to be guilty of brandishing both must be met. The AG in the state of Michigan has also said that a firearm carried in a holster is not "brandishing".
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Saying someone open carries for the attention is like saying someone concealed carries for the opportunity to shoot a criminal. Neither statement is true.
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04-11-2012, 15:02
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jud325
No such thing as brandishing in Pa. What county in Pa. did this take place?
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Huntingdon circa 1991, it was 3-4 sheriffs ago. Every since he told me that, I have been slightly paranoid that someone would see me carrying. From the repsonse here, I'm thinking it may not be big deal. I will have to see what I can find in the PA laws regarding this.
Thanks
Al
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04-11-2012, 21:46
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#12
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,170
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PA (outside Philly) doesn't even require a license to carry openly...correct?
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04-11-2012, 22:10
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 859
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I'd suspect the laws were different 25 years ago.
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04-11-2012, 22:59
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#14
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NRA Life Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Formerly of Hallstead, PA
Posts: 5,871
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HandyMan Hugh D.H.M.D.
NRA Life Member/Certified Pistol Instructor
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04-12-2012, 03:27
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#15
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Diesel Girl
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
Posts: 7,518
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I don't think it would matter if you were actually brandishing or not. If someone didn't like you, all they have to do is say you pointed your gun at them and you go to jail.
It's then on you to prove you didn't do it. Even if your acquitted, your still our the $$ for your legal fees.
It's up to the individual but I say keep it concealed. 
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04-12-2012, 06:28
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl at GT
I have had a CC permit for 25 years but am only now really getting interested in the politics of the subject. When I got my permit, the sheriff said that if anyone saw me carrying, I could be charged with brandishing. I have been reading many threads on open carry. There may be an obvious answer to this question but I don’t see it. If I were carrying in a IWB holster and someone saw the gun because I accidently exposed it, could that just be considered open carry or is that brandishing? Or am I way off? Was my sheriff nuts?
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PA has no law on brandishing.
PA is an open carry state, so if your handgun is exposed, you've broken no law.
Some years ago, many LEO's wrongly believed that you could be arrested for disorderly conduct for carrying openly. However, while a very, very few might still think that, the charge of DC for the mere fact of carrying openly is not warranted.
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04-12-2012, 06:46
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#17
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BTF Inventor
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,875
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Carrying in a provokative manner in urban areas isn't any smarter now than it was 20 years ago. That said, above all, be legal, and familiar with the potential drawbacks of how and where you carry. Good luck.
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Did someone talk to you about that TPS report?
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04-12-2012, 06:48
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, PA
Posts: 71
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Steve is correct. And a holstered weapon can be brandished... say someone approaches you and you lift your shirt to intentionally show you are carrying to ward them off. Though there is no law about brandishing, this could be considered as a threat if you do not have a valid reason for fear. But other than that, carry however you would like, in a safe manner. Concealed carry or open. We're not going to get into an argument on why you should or shouldn't carry a certain way. Honestly, who cares. You have the right to carry as you wish to, so exercise that right. Pa firearm laws are hard to find online but they are out there. Stop by your Sheriff's office and ask for the firearms law book. They should give you one upon request... and why they don't just hand them out to every CCW holder from the start is beyond me.
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04-12-2012, 10:16
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#19
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212
I don't think it would matter if you were actually brandishing or not. If someone didn't like you, all they have to do is say you pointed your gun at them and you go to jail.
It's then on you to prove you didn't do it. Even if your acquitted, your still our the $$ for your legal fees.
It's up to the individual but I say keep it concealed. |
If someone doesn't like you all they have to do is say you pulled your genitals out and waved them around and you go to jail.
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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
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04-13-2012, 01:08
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#20
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Geezer Boomer
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: El Paso
Posts: 2,787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
If someone doesn't like you all they have to do is say you pulled your genitals out and waved them around and you go to jail.
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So is that brandishing or open carry?
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"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
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