GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2012, 08:25   #81
Boats
Not Assimilated
 
Boats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 1,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
If you dont have a next round, why do you need a second pull?
Look, I don't care one way or the other about tap-rack-bang orthodoxy spats, but the second strike requirement came about directly from the experiences of past warriors and what they wanted to see in a sidearm.

You seem incapable of remembering that certain units in WW2, in both theaters, were cut off from resupply for extended periods. Other units in Korea and Vietnam were likewise using every damn round they had, perfect or not.

There you are, running low on ammo as a unit. You have some suspect boxes of ammo that are showing badly that they were fished out from the surf zone. Despite what the modern doctrine might say to do about ammo with iffy primers, the Army wanted the ability for the sidearm to take more than one whack at a primer if its operator wanted it to.

Quote:
What are the odds that the last round doesnt go off and needs another pull?
That's immaterial, the Army wanted that chance to be present no matter how remote. I didn't write the RFP, I am just explaining that second strike capability wasn't in there randomly.

Quote:
What are the odds the shooter keeps pulling the trigger when they should be racking the slide?
Again, that is irrelevant as to why the DoD added second strike capability to the XM9 RFP. IIRC, the ability to do so wasn't a JSSAP requirement for the aborted .45ACP trial.

Last edited by Boats; 04-10-2012 at 08:29..
Boats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 08:34   #82
BuckyP
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
BuckyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
How often did you use second strike?
Twice in one match, hence "a couple".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
Is second strike something you would value if someone where trying to kill you?
My typical carry is a G30, so I wouldn't base my choice solely on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
You may be some sort of operator or something.
Nothing of the sort. Just a competitive shooter that has put a lot of rounds downrange on the clock. It's the only experience I have to base my opinions on (and hope it stays that way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp3975 View Post
I feel pretty confident that most people...if scared and full of adrenaline will waste valuable seconds using second strike more than they need to, rather than racking the slide. Without double strike capability, you will instinctively rack the slide because you cant pull the trigger...making you faster....save for that RARE occasion double strike will ignite a primer.
I agree.... assuming your free hand is available. Otherwise, you are trying rack one handed which is less than ideal. If you are on the ground fending off an attack, one may be inclined to pull the trigger again if the option existed.

As stated, it's not the end all, but to say it has no advantages is disingenuous.
BuckyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 11:44   #83
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Why doesn't SIG/HK make a striker fired pistol?


They can't get one to go 'Ka-Boom"?
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 20:13   #84
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,466
I have been authorized to answer this question for HK:

STFU. Nobody asked you. When you need one, we will make one. As for the original that we made before Glock, you are obviously an unaware idiot. You may not buy our guns ever again. Even the pistols with hammers.

HK Customer Service
Because you suck and we hate you.
Aceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 22:17   #85
gatorglockman
Senior Member
 
gatorglockman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alabama, USA
Posts: 707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
I have been authorized to answer this question for HK:

STFU. Nobody asked you. When you need one, we will make one. As for the original that we made before Glock, you are obviously an unaware idiot. You may not buy our guns ever again. Even the pistols with hammers.

HK Customer Service
Because you suck and we hate you.
LMAO

Cold bro....ice cold. I am censoring my own response as to not be banned from GT.

Now....Dance Dieter....Da'nce...like a Sproke't!
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

"If you seek peace, prepare for war"
And that is why it is called 9mm parabellum
gatorglockman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 01:06   #86
TSAX
USAF Vet
 
TSAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,123
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post

At least with HK they already have a great DAO system. Sig's DAK leaves a lot to be desired though. Who knows what they will do in the future.
The Sig P290 DAO is worse than the DAK, the P290 was about 9 lbs and the DAK was about 6 ish









__________________
IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America) Member

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

GSSF Member
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

NRA Member
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
TSAX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:11   #87
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 26,971


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
I have been authorized to answer this question for HK:

STFU. Nobody asked you. When you need one, we will make one. As for the original that we made before Glock, you are obviously an unaware idiot. You may not buy our guns ever again. Even the pistols with hammers.

HK Customer Service
Because you suck and we hate you.
I didn't know you worked HK customer service!!!

__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glockdude1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 22:35   #88
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanxr View Post
Correct me if im wrong but a few years ago I thought HK said they were going to steer clear of Striker Fired Pistols.

Their reasoning was hammers were superior if you run into a situation where the first primer strike doesnt go through you can just fire again instead of racking it back to reset the pin in striker fired pistols.

-Phal
There's no technical reason a striker-fired gun can't have double strike capability. The Taurus PT709 does it, for example. It sure makes dry firing more fun.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 04-11-2012 at 22:38..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 09:12   #89
bamarammin87
h8tr
 
bamarammin87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chihuahuan Desert, TX
Posts: 4,782
Just making a gun with the same trigger pull for every shot, and with a short, 4lb pull and reset, and no external safety. Sole reason I wish they did. It's lame that you have to have a DA revolver pull if you don't want 2 differen trigger pulls in a hk or sig.
bamarammin87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:31   #90
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Holy Necromancy Batman!
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:11   #91
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 56,052


Glock sucks because only HK can make a pistol that will feed cartridges loaded backward into the magazine. That's why HK is made in Germany by true Teutons and Glocks are made in Austria by a bunch of wannabe Teutons.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:25   #92
Boats
Not Assimilated
 
Boats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Somewhere in Oregon
Posts: 1,304
So, it's been about a year now. . .and guess what? Striker fired pistols still suck hard in 2013.
Boats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:30   #93
WayneJessie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
HK has made striker fired guns before. Hell, they made one before Glock did.

General Firearms Forum
Blasphemy!!
__________________
I'd own a Glock; were it not for Glock owners.
WayneJessie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 15:15   #94
nathanours
Texan
 
nathanours's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Born in Texas, now in Colorado
Posts: 2,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
I have been authorized to answer this question for HK:

STFU. Nobody asked you. When you need one, we will make one. As for the original that we made before Glock, you are obviously an unaware idiot. You may not buy our guns ever again. Even the pistols with hammers.

HK Customer Service
Because you suck and we hate you.
Is this similar to the response given to those who ask when HK will start making guns with decent triggers?
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Black Rifle Club #1989
nathanours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 17:08   #95
ca survivor
Senior Member
 
ca survivor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
I don't care for the 250 and I wouldn't be caught dead with one of those fruity rainbow guns.

Now there are some folks in San Fransisco that probably like the Rainbow colors...
in San Fransisco
ca survivor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 17:15   #96
barth
six barrels
 
barth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The Free Zone
Posts: 5,159
With HK LEM - what's the point of a striker fired gun?

I think the real question is why should HK make a striker fired pistol?

I really believe their primary focus (HK)
is the international military and police market.
Some of those contracts require a hammer fired gun.
Plus with the LEM trigger.
I see no advantage to a striker fired gun.
Plus, although rarely needed,
I like having second strike capability a hammer fired gun affords.

I love my Glock.
But would have no interest in a striker fired HK.
And I own five of them.

Last edited by barth; 04-10-2013 at 17:18..
barth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 17:26   #97
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 90,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth View Post
I think the real question is why should HK make a striker fired pistol?

I really believe their primary focus (HK)
is the international military and police market.
Some of those contracts require a hammer fired gun.
Plus with the LEM trigger.
I see no advantage to a striker fired gun.
Plus, although rarely needed,
I like having second strike capability a hammer fired gun affords.

I love my Glock.
But would have no interest in a striker fired HK.
And I own five of them.


I actually like strikers, but I don't see a need for HK to build another.
__________________
.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bac1023 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 17:44   #98
Kimura
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth View Post
I think the real question is why should HK make a striker fired pistol?

I really believe their primary focus (HK)
is the international military and police market.
Some of those contracts require a hammer fired gun.
Plus with the LEM trigger.
I see no advantage to a striker fired gun.
Plus, although rarely needed,
I like having second strike capability a hammer fired gun affords.

I love my Glock.
But would have no interest in a striker fired HK.
And I own five of them.
Depends on how many military units and LEAs go that direction in the future and whether HK can be competitive in the market. That's what will drive HK's decision. DA/SA is harder to perfect than SF or SAO and LEM gets mixed reviews. If administrators for large LEAs and military start to see SF as a benefit because of price and decreased training time or if the right people start screaming for SF pistols, you might see a lot more agencies/units going that direction.

I believe the SF gun that was mentioned earlier in the thread was the SF P30 that the German police were talking to HK about. Rumor has it that they asked HK about the possibility of designing one. Then for whatever reason, probably money, decided against it. And it's been said that the only way HK will pursue it any further is if a large contract is involved. Because, as you said, govt contracts is their focus.
Kimura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 10:00   #99
s&wfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 677
HK and Sig don't need to make striker fired pistols at this point. HK's striker fired pistol has been mentioned already, but really.... Asking why HK doesn't try to jump into competition with the other striker fired pistols out there is kind of asking why Ferrari doesn't put out a four door sedan to compete with the Ford Fusion.
s&wfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 10:28   #100
nathanours
Texan
 
nathanours's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Born in Texas, now in Colorado
Posts: 2,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wfan View Post
HK and Sig don't need to make striker fired pistols at this point. HK's striker fired pistol has been mentioned already, but really.... Asking why HK doesn't try to jump into competition with the other striker fired pistols out there is kind of asking why Ferrari doesn't put out a four door sedan to compete with the Ford Fusion.
See, I don't agree with this analogy I've seen used a few times now in one fashion or another.

If you drive a Ferrari compared to a Fusion there is an incredible difference. They are not even close to being in the same category.

I've owned guns from HK, Glock, and Sig. If anything Sig is different from Glock and HK being metal framed, but in my mind HK and Glock are similar.

Yes the fit and finish is nicer on HK than Glock, but in reality they shoot very similarly. Their weight is similar, their dimensions are similar, and they are both just polymer framed combat style pistols carrying roughly the same capacity. In general the Glocks I've shot had better triggers than the HKs. Until the P30, Glocks for the most part also fit my hand better. In terms of accuracy, in a Ransom rest my Glock 19 shot slightly tighter groups than my USP compact. Does it matter? Not really because those groups were both better than I could shoot unsupported.

A more fair example would be paying Ferrari prices for a Fusion with a little bit nicer interior and paint job compared to paying Fusion prices for a normal Fusion.
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Black Rifle Club #1989

Last edited by nathanours; 04-11-2013 at 10:28..
nathanours is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:04.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 795
172 Members
623 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42