Columbine High School Father 12 years later... - Page 2

ksg0245 · 04-10-2012, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Why would I backpedal?

Because your earlier claim was shown to be in error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

To think such a thing is your error, not mine.

You first claimed ""Prayer is outlawed in public schools" and "The sc removed prayer from school." You then said "the right of students and faculty to pray in school is restricted."

It isn't an error to point out that "restricted" isn't equivalent to "outlawed" or "removed."

ksg0245 · 04-10-2012, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If we allow teachers to lead the class in prayer does the teacher get to decide which prayer? Yes. And of course if they can't do the job right, the school board can remove them. The school board would answer to the parents for the quality of their own administration.

To which God? Can a wiccan teacher have the class participate in a ceremony to honor the Goddess? Personally I'd prayer to be Christian prayer. If that rubbed anyone else the wrong way, well they could go somewhere else... or organize a private school of their own.

What prevents parents desiring a religious education for their children doing just that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If the school board hired someone who turned out to be a pagan, etc., then they would need to fire them. Very cool.[/I]

It's "very cool" to violate the religious freedom of non-christians?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

IDoes the Muslim teacher get to have his class bow to Mecca a few times a day? Same process as last question.

It looks like you're saying Muslims don't have the same religious rights Christians do, is that correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Can the parents be required to supply a prayer rug? Christians don't normally need such things, so the answer is "No." If that did not suit those who saw things differently, fine. They can always establish their own private schools.

So can Christians.

***ArtificialGrape*** · 04-10-2012, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Why would I backpedal? To think such a thing is your error, not mine.

Your earlier claim was that prayer was outlawed. You have been demonstrated to be wrong, and now you shift your focus to prayer being restricted. You fail to present evidence to support your claim and instead argue about what you would expect in a hypothetical anecdotal scenario.

Any chance that you'd care to present evidence supporting your earlier claim that prayer is outlawed?

-ArtificialGrape

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 06:28

[QUOTE=ksg0245;18826598]What prevents parents desiring a religious education for their children doing just that?

We who do not want our children polluted by your toxic paganism are in the right. If you want to pedal your poison, you can have the fun of paying for it yourself.

It's "very cool" to violate the religious freedom of non-christians? Religious freedom? Really. Your "religious?"

It looks like you're saying Muslims don't have the same religious rights Christians do, is that correct? Muslims? Haven't ever seen a muslim... except when they were crashing airplanes into buildings, cutting the heads off hostages and blowing the brains out of women in soccer fields.

So can Christians. Why should we? If you want to continue to destroy this nation, do it on your own dime.

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Your earlier claim was that prayer was outlawed. You have been demonstrated to be wrong, and now you shift your focus to prayer being restricted. You fail to present evidence to support your claim and instead argue about what you would expect in a hypothetical anecdotal scenario.

Any chance that you'd care to present evidence supporting your earlier claim that prayer is outlawed?

-ArtificialGrape

Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.

***ArtificialGrape*** · 04-11-2012, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.

No worry, I wasn't actually expecting that you'd start supporting your false assertions with evidence at this point.

-ArtificialGrape

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

No worry, I wasn't actually expecting that you'd start supporting your false assertions with evidence at this point.

-ArtificialGrape

You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.

***Geko45*** · 04-11-2012, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.

You need to grow up and learn that you aren't nearly as insightful as you think you are.

Animal Mother · 04-11-2012, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You must find living in a heterogeneous society a difficult thing. By the same token, why should anyone care about your thoughts or opinions? At least ArtificialGrape manages to support his position with actual facts rather than childish petulance.

ksg0245 · 04-11-2012, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

We who do not want our children polluted by your toxic paganism

I'm sorry you think reality is "toxic paganism."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

are in the right.

It's true you have the right to believe whatever you'd like. You don't have the right to impose those beliefs on others or require others to accomodate your beliefs, though. Too bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If you want to pedal your poison, you can have the fun of paying for it yourself.

You mean while your "poison" is payed for with my tax dollars? That seems fair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Religious freedom? Really.

Yeah, you know, that thing mentioned in the Constitution. You seem to be unaware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Your "religious?"

Unfortunately for you, it doesn't matter what I am, nor does it matter what anyone else is. EVERYBODY is protected, not just your favorite group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Muslims? Haven't ever seen a muslim... except when they were crashing airplanes into buildings, cutting the heads off hostages and blowing the brains out of women in soccer fields.

Nice dodge. I was almost completely unaware that you failed to address the question.

I suspect you're lying about never having seen a Muslim, but that hardly matters, does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Why should we?

Because that darned Constitution says so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If you want to continue to destroy this nation, do it on your own dime.

ksg0245 · 04-11-2012, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Careful, you'll get a bruise bumping into reality that hard.

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksg0245

Careful, you'll get a bruise bumping into reality that hard.

You obviously have experience walking around in the dark. If I were to emulate you, I'd have cause to be concerned. But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality... or changing it when it suits me.

***ArtificialGrape*** · 04-11-2012, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.

Not disappointed at all -- you have met my precise expectations for this conversation.

Sorry to distract you from evangelizing that gays should be despised and rejected. Carry on.

-ArtificialGrape

Japle · 04-11-2012, 10:05

Quote:

Posted by Brucev:
But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality... or changing it when it suits me.

Oh, good! He thinks he can change reality!

(Get the net!!)

ksg0245 · 04-11-2012, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

You obviously have experience walking around in the dark.

Of course I do; darkness is part of reality. It gets dark in caves and at night, for example. I don't stop walking around just because it's dark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If I were to emulate you, I'd have cause to be concerned.

Well, I hope you never have to get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality...

Since you have no problem recognizing reality, have you noticed that Christians aren't the only people in the USA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

or changing it when it suits me.

I'm curious what would precipitate you changing, given your disdain for evidence and rejection of points of view other than your own.

Gunhaver · 04-11-2012, 12:16

Bruce, let me put this into the only language you understand,

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Your problem seems to be that students can't drop everything in the middle of a class and git to prayin' where everyone else can see how holy they are and feel compelled to join in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.

This is a common theme for you. Something to the effect of "if you don't like it, too bad, so sad" caps off so many of your statements but if you pay attention to the trend in this country without delusion in your head (

) you'll see that it's you that's got some disappointment to live with and more coming every day.

RC-RAMIE · 04-11-2012, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

To which God? Can a wiccan teacher have the class participate in a ceremony to honor the Goddess? Personally I'd prayer to be Christian prayer. If that rubbed anyone else the wrong way, well they could go somewhere else... or organize a private school of their own. If the school board hired someone who turned out to be a pagan, etc., then they would need to fire them. Very cool.

[/I]

Fired for being pagan what happened to the freedom of religion you been railing about. Or is freedom of religion for Christians?

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 14:04

[QUOTE=Gunhaver;18830784]Bruce, let me put this into the only language you understand,

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Your problem seems to be that students can't drop everything in the middle of a class and git to prayin' where everyone else can see how holy they are and feel compelled to join in.

This is a common theme for you. Something to the effect of "if you don't like it, too bad, so sad" caps off so many of your statements but if you pay attention to the trend in this country without delusion in your head (

) you'll see that it's you that's got some disappointment to live with and more coming every day.

I consider that it is outrageous for a student or teacher to be told that their Constitutional right is to be infringed, restricted, hindered... whatever, simply because someone else gets bent over it. If extra-Constitutional rights are to be afforded to allow the killing of unborn children to suit the convenience whoever and then everyone is supposed to "accept" it, then there is no reason at all that a genuine right specifically written in the COTUS should be in any way fenced in by the concerns of anyone period.

As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?

Brucev · 04-11-2012, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE

Fired for being pagan what happened to the freedom of religion you been railing about. Or is freedom of religion for Christians?

Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.

Gunhaver · 04-11-2012, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?

Then I say to you that if you don't like the prayer in school situation in this country then you're free to go start a new Christian nation. You and your kind obviously didn't do a good enough job of keeping this one all Christiany so maybe you should start over.

Oh, and if you don't like it, TS.

Japle · 04-11-2012, 14:53

Quote:

Posted by Brucev:
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.

Wow. I can’t recall coming across an example of religious bigotry that blatant on this forum before. The vast majority of people who hold views that extreme have the good sense to keep their opinions to themselves.

It’s good to have it out in the open. Now we know exactly what we’re dealing with.

RC-RAMIE · 04-11-2012, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.

Wow..

ksg0245 · 04-11-2012, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.

Could you point please out where in the Constitution freedom of religion is restricted to Christians?

ksg0245 · 04-11-2012, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

I consider that it is outrageous for a student or teacher to be told that their Constitutional right is to be infringed, restricted, hindered... whatever, simply because someone else gets bent over it.

No you don't; you're outraged because Christians aren't being given the deference you think they deserve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

If extra-Constitutional rights are to be afforded to allow the killing of unborn children to suit the convenience whoever and then everyone is supposed to "accept" it, then there is no reason at all that a genuine right specifically written in the COTUS should be in any way fenced in by the concerns of anyone period.

Sorry, what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?

***ArtificialGrape*** · 04-11-2012, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksg0245

Could you point please out where in the Constitution freedom of religion is restricted to Christians?

When you're enlightened you transcend evidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brucev

Evidence? Surely you jest!