GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2012, 13:33   #26
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Why would I backpedal?
Because your earlier claim was shown to be in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
To think such a thing is your error, not mine.
You first claimed ""Prayer is outlawed in public schools" and "The sc removed prayer from school." You then said "the right of students and faculty to pray in school is restricted."

It isn't an error to point out that "restricted" isn't equivalent to "outlawed" or "removed."
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 13:42   #27
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If we allow teachers to lead the class in prayer does the teacher get to decide which prayer? Yes. And of course if they can't do the job right, the school board can remove them. The school board would answer to the parents for the quality of their own administration.

To which God? Can a wiccan teacher have the class participate in a ceremony to honor the Goddess? Personally I'd prayer to be Christian prayer. If that rubbed anyone else the wrong way, well they could go somewhere else... or organize a private school of their own.
What prevents parents desiring a religious education for their children doing just that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If the school board hired someone who turned out to be a pagan, etc., then they would need to fire them. Very cool.[/I]
It's "very cool" to violate the religious freedom of non-christians?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
IDoes the Muslim teacher get to have his class bow to Mecca a few times a day? Same process as last question.
It looks like you're saying Muslims don't have the same religious rights Christians do, is that correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Can the parents be required to supply a prayer rug? Christians don't normally need such things, so the answer is "No." If that did not suit those who saw things differently, fine. They can always establish their own private schools.
So can Christians.
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 20:43   #28
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,545
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Why would I backpedal? To think such a thing is your error, not mine.
Your earlier claim was that prayer was outlawed. You have been demonstrated to be wrong, and now you shift your focus to prayer being restricted. You fail to present evidence to support your claim and instead argue about what you would expect in a hypothetical anecdotal scenario.

Any chance that you'd care to present evidence supporting your earlier claim that prayer is outlawed?

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:28   #29
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
[QUOTE=ksg0245;18826598]What prevents parents desiring a religious education for their children doing just that?

We who do not want our children polluted by your toxic paganism are in the right. If you want to pedal your poison, you can have the fun of paying for it yourself.

It's "very cool" to violate the religious freedom of non-christians? Religious freedom? Really. Your "religious?"



It looks like you're saying Muslims don't have the same religious rights Christians do, is that correct? Muslims? Haven't ever seen a muslim... except when they were crashing airplanes into buildings, cutting the heads off hostages and blowing the brains out of women in soccer fields.



So can Christians. Why should we? If you want to continue to destroy this nation, do it on your own dime.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:31   #30
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
Your earlier claim was that prayer was outlawed. You have been demonstrated to be wrong, and now you shift your focus to prayer being restricted. You fail to present evidence to support your claim and instead argue about what you would expect in a hypothetical anecdotal scenario.

Any chance that you'd care to present evidence supporting your earlier claim that prayer is outlawed?

-ArtificialGrape
Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:52   #31
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,545
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.
No worry, I wasn't actually expecting that you'd start supporting your false assertions with evidence at this point.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 07:45   #32
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
No worry, I wasn't actually expecting that you'd start supporting your false assertions with evidence at this point.

-ArtificialGrape
You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:14   #33
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,370


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.
You need to grow up and learn that you aren't nearly as insightful as you think you are.
__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
Geko45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:44   #34
Animal Mother
Not Enough Gun
 
Animal Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.
You must find living in a heterogeneous society a difficult thing. By the same token, why should anyone care about your thoughts or opinions? At least ArtificialGrape manages to support his position with actual facts rather than childish petulance.
__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."

Last edited by Animal Mother; 04-11-2012 at 08:45..
Animal Mother is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:47   #35
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
We who do not want our children polluted by your toxic paganism
I'm sorry you think reality is "toxic paganism."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
are in the right.
It's true you have the right to believe whatever you'd like. You don't have the right to impose those beliefs on others or require others to accomodate your beliefs, though. Too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If you want to pedal your poison, you can have the fun of paying for it yourself.
You mean while your "poison" is payed for with my tax dollars? That seems fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Religious freedom? Really.
Yeah, you know, that thing mentioned in the Constitution. You seem to be unaware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Your "religious?"
Unfortunately for you, it doesn't matter what I am, nor does it matter what anyone else is. EVERYBODY is protected, not just your favorite group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Muslims? Haven't ever seen a muslim... except when they were crashing airplanes into buildings, cutting the heads off hostages and blowing the brains out of women in soccer fields.
Nice dodge. I was almost completely unaware that you failed to address the question.

I suspect you're lying about never having seen a Muslim, but that hardly matters, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Why should we?
Because that darned Constitution says so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If you want to continue to destroy this nation, do it on your own dime.
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:50   #36
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Evidence? Surely you jest! You must be under the mistaken impression that I care what you think or value your opinion. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Careful, you'll get a bruise bumping into reality that hard.
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:45   #37
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
Careful, you'll get a bruise bumping into reality that hard.
You obviously have experience walking around in the dark. If I were to emulate you, I'd have cause to be concerned. But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality... or changing it when it suits me.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:46   #38
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,545
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.
Not disappointed at all -- you have met my precise expectations for this conversation.

Sorry to distract you from evangelizing that gays should be despised and rejected. Carry on.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 10:05   #39
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 870
Quote:
Posted by Brucev:
But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality... or changing it when it suits me.
Oh, good! He thinks he can change reality!

(Get the net!!)
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 11:10   #40
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
You obviously have experience walking around in the dark.
Of course I do; darkness is part of reality. It gets dark in caves and at night, for example. I don't stop walking around just because it's dark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If I were to emulate you, I'd have cause to be concerned.
Well, I hope you never have to get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom or anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
But since I walk in the light, I have no problem recognizing reality...
Since you have no problem recognizing reality, have you noticed that Christians aren't the only people in the USA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
or changing it when it suits me.
I'm curious what would precipitate you changing, given your disdain for evidence and rejection of points of view other than your own.
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 12:16   #41
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Bruce, let me put this into the only language you understand,

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Your problem seems to be that students can't drop everything in the middle of a class and git to prayin' where everyone else can see how holy they are and feel compelled to join in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
You must grow up and learn to live with disappointment.
This is a common theme for you. Something to the effect of "if you don't like it, too bad, so sad" caps off so many of your statements but if you pay attention to the trend in this country without delusion in your head () you'll see that it's you that's got some disappointment to live with and more coming every day.
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 12:27   #42
RC-RAMIE
Senior Member
 
RC-RAMIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
To which God? Can a wiccan teacher have the class participate in a ceremony to honor the Goddess? Personally I'd prayer to be Christian prayer. If that rubbed anyone else the wrong way, well they could go somewhere else... or organize a private school of their own. If the school board hired someone who turned out to be a pagan, etc., then they would need to fire them. Very cool.

[/I]
Fired for being pagan what happened to the freedom of religion you been railing about. Or is freedom of religion for Christians?
RC-RAMIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 14:04   #43
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
[QUOTE=Gunhaver;18830784]Bruce, let me put this into the only language you understand,

Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Your problem seems to be that students can't drop everything in the middle of a class and git to prayin' where everyone else can see how holy they are and feel compelled to join in.

This is a common theme for you. Something to the effect of "if you don't like it, too bad, so sad" caps off so many of your statements but if you pay attention to the trend in this country without delusion in your head () you'll see that it's you that's got some disappointment to live with and more coming every day.

I consider that it is outrageous for a student or teacher to be told that their Constitutional right is to be infringed, restricted, hindered... whatever, simply because someone else gets bent over it. If extra-Constitutional rights are to be afforded to allow the killing of unborn children to suit the convenience whoever and then everyone is supposed to "accept" it, then there is no reason at all that a genuine right specifically written in the COTUS should be in any way fenced in by the concerns of anyone period.

As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 14:07   #44
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE View Post
Fired for being pagan what happened to the freedom of religion you been railing about. Or is freedom of religion for Christians?
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 14:44   #45
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post

As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?
Then I say to you that if you don't like the prayer in school situation in this country then you're free to go start a new Christian nation. You and your kind obviously didn't do a good enough job of keeping this one all Christiany so maybe you should start over.

Oh, and if you don't like it, TS.
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 14:53   #46
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 870
Quote:
Posted by Brucev:
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.
Wow. I canít recall coming across an example of religious bigotry that blatant on this forum before. The vast majority of people who hold views that extreme have the good sense to keep their opinions to themselves.

Itís good to have it out in the open. Now we know exactly what weíre dealing with.
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 15:42   #47
RC-RAMIE
Senior Member
 
RC-RAMIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.
Wow..
RC-RAMIE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 17:19   #48
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.
Could you point please out where in the Constitution freedom of religion is restricted to Christians?
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 17:22   #49
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
I consider that it is outrageous for a student or teacher to be told that their Constitutional right is to be infringed, restricted, hindered... whatever, simply because someone else gets bent over it.
No you don't; you're outraged because Christians aren't being given the deference you think they deserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
If extra-Constitutional rights are to be afforded to allow the killing of unborn children to suit the convenience whoever and then everyone is supposed to "accept" it, then there is no reason at all that a genuine right specifically written in the COTUS should be in any way fenced in by the concerns of anyone period.
Sorry, what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
As to disappointment, it comes to everyone. So what?
ksg0245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 17:25   #50
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,545
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Fired for being pagan? Yep. That just about nails it on the head. All for it. As to freedom of religion, I can't see that it pertains to anyone except Christians. This nation is rooted in the Christian faith. The rest are welcome to go somewhere else and start their own nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
Could you point please out where in the Constitution freedom of religion is restricted to Christians?
When you're enlightened you transcend evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
Evidence? Surely you jest!
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:22.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 754
234 Members
520 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42