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Old 04-09-2012, 20:19   #601
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I think the FBI and DOJ have had more than enough time to try and find any thing wrong with the PD or Mr Zimmerman and have failed. What few bits of info the FBI/DOJ has put out makes it seem like they gave up and are just along for the ride unless some smoking gun pops up.
Funny turn of phrase. In this case, they literally HAVE the smoking gun (okay, it MIGHT not have still been smoking when they got there) and it doesn't change a thing!


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IMHO its a fishing expedition by the Government based on a hunch and not on facts or probable cause.
I disagree with calling it a fishing expedition. I don't thing the Fibbies ever expected to find anything. I TRULY think this was a "showing of the flag" exercise to prove that they take the community's concerns seriously - even if they don't. I think, like you said, they're just along for the ride and when the (likely) announcement of "nothing to see here, move along!" comes from the state's attorney, then the feds will go "yep, we looked, too, and found nothing."
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:52   #602
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I disagree with calling it a fishing expedition. I don't thing the Fibbies ever expected to find anything. I TRULY think this was a "showing of the flag" exercise to prove that they take the community's concerns seriously - even if they don't. I think, like you said, they're just along for the ride and when the (likely) announcement of "nothing to see here, move along!" comes from the state's attorney, then the feds will go "yep, we looked, too, and found nothing."
One person could have done that. They have a number of agents looking into both the PD and Zimmerman.

Eric Holder himself could have gone down there with 4 agents and spent 8-12 hours looking at evidence and walked away know what a team of agents from a few agency's have been working on for weeks now, with no offical findings or reports.

But now they have set precidence that if you ask for them, they will respond. If not, then justice is not being sought after, or white, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, and other races will not get fair and equal justice under color of law.
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:03   #603
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I had a thought when I heard about the no-Grand-Jury thing today...


After the Anthony trial, the jurors that came out publicly found themselves the targets of harassment and worse.

Do you think it's possible that the special prosecutor, knowing what announcement she was going to make, either 1) didn't want to put a group of folks into a room where they made a call based on public opinion vs fact and law and/or 2) decided to take the pressure on herself rather than serve that group up to the wolves?
I think both are likely. I don't think its realistic to expect people to be dispassionate about this, emotions are too high, too much misinformation going around. I'm not even confident the prosecutor can put aside the political ramifications and do an impartial job. I like the idea of a special prosecutor, going to be out of a job either way, insulates them to some extent from the politics, at least compared to the elected folks.

Randy
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:10   #604
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I think both are likely. I don't think its realistic to expect people to be dispassionate about this, emotions are too high, too much misinformation going around. I'm not even confident the prosecutor can put aside the political ramifications and do an impartial job. I like the idea of a special prosecutor, going to be out of a job either way, insulates them to some extent from the politics, at least compared to the elected folks.

Randy
Yeah, maybe I'm being naive, wouldn't be the first time, but something is just making my Spidey-sense say this woman is saying "Someone's going to take a beating over this, so I'll just take the heat and save the folks that would have been impaneled the grief...."

I can't put my finger on it, and maybe I'm just thinking too much that there might still be a few good folks left in the world, but that's the vibe I'm getting out of it: falling on the sword to protect the other.
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Old 04-10-2012, 00:41   #605
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Yeah, maybe I'm being naive, wouldn't be the first time, but something is just making my Spidey-sense say this woman is saying "Someone's going to take a beating over this, so I'll just take the heat and save the folks that would have been impaneled the grief...."

I can't put my finger on it, and maybe I'm just thinking too much that there might still be a few good folks left in the world, but that's the vibe I'm getting out of it: falling on the sword to protect the other.
Or maybe she saw a chance for her own book deal
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:04   #606
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But now they have set precidence that if you ask for them, they will respond. If not, then justice is not being sought after, or white, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, and other races will not get fair and equal justice under color of law.
I'm sure they're on a plane right now to investigate this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lind-date.html
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:49   #607
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
I had a thought when I heard about the no-Grand-Jury thing today...


After the Anthony trial, the jurors that came out publicly found themselves the targets of harassment and worse.

Do you think it's possible that the special prosecutor, knowing what announcement she was going to make, either 1) didn't want to put a group of folks into a room where they made a call based on public opinion vs fact and law and/or 2) decided to take the pressure on herself rather than serve that group up to the wolves?
From the time the case was assigned to her she mentioned she never sent her cases to the grand jury, at the time she left a way out in case she changed her mind. However, this is not a departure from the norm for her. She had every intention of handling the matter herself.

.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:53   #608
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Friday is the 13th.

I think State Attorney Angela Corey would have been better with a Grand Jury. She is taking a heck of a risk, that will not have a good outcome based on what we know.

She can risk a trial, and try to say there was probable cause to think it was not self defense, deal with the trial and appeals, or Mr Zimmermans lawyers who might have her job for a false arrest/charge/trial and sue the state.

Or she can say there is no case, and deal with major fallout from the Black Community who seems to be to dumb to understand the legal system and will riot and steal from third parties to prove how uncivil they area.

If a Grand Jury takes it, then she has a case/arrest. If a Grand Jury no bills, she tried and it was not there. "The people spoke". Now with all the Grand Jury dealings I have I know a State/District Attorney can sell a case if they want, how they want (ham sandwich, and all that).

Now I dont know about Florida, but if Mr Zimmerman is arrested by State Attorney Angela Corey for a felony, would he not have a right for a Grand Jury to review the charges before a trial?

State Attorney Angela Corey I hope is smart, as she has dealt with use of force where there was no trial and where there was a trial.
I’ve been reading a bit about that and it appears it is not a requirement. They can go straight to arrest and trial.

.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:06   #609
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To me it seems like a risk, unless she knows she will call for a trial and Mr Zimmerman can request a Grand Jury review that will buy more time and have Zimmerman arrested to please the black community who are so dumb they want civil rights violated, just not on their own kind...

In Texas you can have a Grand Jury review any Felony charge after an arrest to see if it should go to trial.

State Attorney Angela Corey is in a tight spot I think job wise.

Zimmerman has good facts supporting him.

Trayvon has lies, cover ups, and biased opinions supporting him.
Trayvon is dead, this is all about whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting or not. If they do charge him, I wonder if they’ll use what they had originally mentioned.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Trayvon+Martin+Sanford+police+chief+should+fired+Florida+politicians/6344130/story.html

Quote:
A police report made public on Wednesday said Martin’s death was originally investigated as a homicide, specifically an “unnecessary killing to prevent an unlawful act.”
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html

Quote:
782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
Mind you, that statute sounds a bit to me as if it takes SYG away.

.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:32   #610
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Has everyone seen the latest?

Zimmerman now has a confirmed website up to accept donations.

therealgeorgezimmerman.com

It has been confirmed by several news outlets by Zimmerman's attorneys.

I am sure this site has broken records for the number of hits it gets.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:47   #611
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http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?form=BR...AFGqwiJY&gl=US

An interesting video I came across last night. Don't know if it has been posted yet.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:48   #612
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Yeah, maybe I'm being naive, wouldn't be the first time, but something is just making my Spidey-sense say this woman is saying "Someone's going to take a beating over this, so I'll just take the heat and save the folks that would have been impaneled the grief...."
That's my sense too. For all the hand wringing in the outside world, she knows the law. She has all the available facts. She knows if there's a case or not (not necessarily if there's been a crime or not, they also know about the gaps in the available evidence, and whether or not the manner you fill in those gaps changes it from self defense to something else). So no point explaining it all to a grand jury and hope they understand it and apply the law correctly. She wasn't hired to impanel grand juries, she was hired to do her job.

Punting to a grand jury is just passing the buck in a politically charged case to save yourself some grief. I give her credit for not taking the easy way out. I think with the available evidence he won't be charged, and people are gonna be pissed.

I think Misty is right also, I remember reading she doesn't tend to use grand juries very often, if at all in normal cases. To use one now would be a craven political chicken-out.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 04-10-2012 at 05:51..
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:54   #613
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Trayvon is dead, this is all about whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting or not. If they do charge him, I wonder if they’ll use what they had originally mentioned.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Trayvon+Martin+Sanford+police+chief+should+fired+Florida+politicians/6344130/story.html


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html



Mind you, that statute sounds a bit to me as if it takes SYG away.

.
Not sure, typically SYG removes duty to retreat, and allows you to meet force with force, and use deadly force in some circumstances, but not carte blanche to use deadly force if its not reasonable/necessary. The key word in the statute above is unnecessarily. FL bent over backwards to protect self defense shooters, but there are always limits...

Randy
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:24   #614
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Trayvon is dead, this is all about whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting or not. If they do charge him, I wonder if they’ll use what they had originally mentioned.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Trayvon+Martin+Sanford+police+chief+should+fired+Florida+politicians/6344130/story.html


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html



Mind you, that statute sounds a bit to me as if it takes SYG away.

.
In court Zimmermans lawyer will have a lot of play for what can or can not be used. Zimmerman does not have to take the stand. Every officer will have to take the stand. Select questions can be asked. The state has the burden of proof, and a good lawyer might have the state looking like fools in this case as evidence and officers will show set things happened.

I noticed at first Zimmermans lawyers went with what I thought was smart at the time; that this is a basic self defense case, and not a stand your ground issue.

But when the head hunters were called in, they went with the Stand Your Ground, as that changed to where the State has to prove it was not self defense to go to trial (must have probable cause it was a bad shooting).

It is easy to have a dead body and arrest the person with the gun based on probable cause and file a charge. Its hard to disprove a self defense shooting unless there is clear cut evidence.

This case is a great tests of laws and understanding of how people act and think in different groups.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:35   #615
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This is what I have learned from this event.

Don't bring Skittles and Iced Tea to a gunfight.

HH
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:17   #616
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Yeah, maybe I'm being naive, wouldn't be the first time, but something is just making my Spidey-sense say this woman is saying "Someone's going to take a beating over this, so I'll just take the heat and save the folks that would have been impaneled the grief...."

I can't put my finger on it, and maybe I'm just thinking too much that there might still be a few good folks left in the world, but that's the vibe I'm getting out of it: falling on the sword to protect the other.
You are probably being naive. You are talking about someone who relies on the popular vote to keep a very high level job vs. some anonymous people who don't even have to explain their decision, which would take the heat off of her. Regardless of her decision, she isn't taking the heat to help the poor grand jury. No prosecutor is risking her career to keep some grand jurors from feeling slightly bad for a day or 2.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:35   #617
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I have a feeling the decision is being made so that emotion is taken out of it. Here in NC, all felonies go to Grand Jury unless the defense waives it. I'm pretty sure she'll recommend no charges against him.

By the same token, if I was the one on trial, I'd probably request a bench trial as opposed to a jury trial. Only the law will then come into play as opposed to the emotions.

Misty, All deaths like this would be investigated as a homicide. Even if the initial claim by the shooter is self defense. It's still a homicide investigation. The correct terminology/classification is "Justifiable Homicide" once it's deemed that. It is STILL a homicide. The criminal charge would be murder or manslaughter if they went that route.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:40   #618
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I’ve been reading a bit about that and it appears it is not a requirement. They can go straight to arrest and trial.

.
The grand jury is only required for 1st degree murder, anything else is up to her
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:42   #619
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You are probably being naive. You are talking about someone who relies on the popular vote to keep a very high level job vs. some anonymous people who don't even have to explain their decision, which would take the heat off of her. Regardless of her decision, she isn't taking the heat to help the poor grand jury. No prosecutor is risking her career to keep some grand jurors from feeling slightly bad for a day or 2.
Part of the reason she was tapped is that she is from outside the area so reelection shouldn't come into play.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:53   #620
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The grand jury is only required for 1st degree murder, anything else is up to her
Is there any right to an examining trial in FL for felony charges?
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