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Old 04-06-2012, 14:17   #1
flw
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Military dependence on civilians for almost everything

I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

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Old 04-06-2012, 14:22   #2
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I think they could have just watched Preppers....
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Old 04-06-2012, 14:23   #3
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Your full of ****.
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Old 04-06-2012, 14:25   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flw View Post
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

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Um, forgive my bluntness, but what the heck are you talking about and what does this have to do with Survival and Preparedness????
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Old 04-06-2012, 14:47   #5
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"I heard on NPR..." was all the farther I could get. I rarely find valuable insight in their reporting.
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Old 04-06-2012, 15:49   #6
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flw View Post
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?
When I started my tour in the middleeast in 04 I was at CENTCOM for the first 3 months. All the food services and security around the perimeter was done by civilians..Yes perimeter security done by civilians.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:00   #8
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Yes we civilians still do perimeter security for the mil. We even do it for DoS and embassies. It has been going on for a long time. Many govt. agencies also contract out mobile security to civilian contractors....FYI
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:20   #9
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In a SHTF scenario the military would be overwhelmed. I remember a truckers strike in the early 70's. No trucks on the road after some nut shot a few. It wouldn't too many guys to throw a monkey wrench into the deal and that's what scares me.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:11   #10
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We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

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Yeah, I was in the Army when we relied on civilians for almost nothing and in the new Army with civilians doing everything. The old one was a LOT better.

Maybe if the civilians would learn to cook and clean like soldiers did, instead of getting by with the minimum expense and effort at avery turn, they'd get more appreciation. It's hard to believe how much lower the quality of the services we get from civilian employees is, in most cases, compared to when it used to be all soldiers.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:14   #11
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Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
When I started my tour in the middleeast in 04 I was at CENTCOM for the first 3 months. All the food services and security around the perimeter was done by civilians..Yes perimeter security done by civilians.
Interesting - I've never seen that, even outside the war zone, like in Kyrgyzstan or Kuwait.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:22   #12
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I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying
WTF are you talking about here?? As a US citizen I am proud to support the military that protects me and as you say, does the dying.

What exactly do you think they owe us????

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Old 04-09-2012, 08:23   #13
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I kind of doubt that the "Army" did anything of the sort. More than likely a few guys, or a company CO thought it would be a cool idea to upgrade the food prep in some dump on a mountain top. The Army has TM's, FM's TB's etc written on everything too include how to take a dump in a cat hole.

As far as base security, yes, civilian contractors handle a lot of it. CSA, Foreign Nationals, etc. Still had MP oversight, but they sat in the towers and manned the ECP's of large bases.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:28   #14
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Uh-huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by flw View Post
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?
There's a reason they're called, "Citizen Soldiers..."

OA, out...
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Old 04-09-2012, 17:03   #15
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Yeah, I was in the Army when we relied on civilians for almost nothing and in the new Army with civilians doing everything. The old one was a LOT better.

Maybe if the civilians would learn to cook and clean like soldiers did, instead of getting by with the minimum expense and effort at avery turn, they'd get more appreciation. It's hard to believe how much lower the quality of the services we get from civilian employees is, in most cases, compared to when it used to be all soldiers.
The old draftee army was inexpensive and there was an unlimited supply of smart cheap labor that rotated through in 2 years. Come the Volunteer Army with much higher paychecks and all kinds of nice barracks, and expensive family support programs; then the bean counters figured out that many jobs could be done more cheaply by civilians who would work all day at the job and not be diverted by all the military distractions that pulled guys away from their work site. Who needs all that military training to work in a dining hall or office? At one Army installation many years ago the manpower conversion rate was one civilian = two soldiers for garrison support jobs.
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Old 04-09-2012, 21:58   #16
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i was suprised to see soldiers working the gates again here at some of our gates at fort campbell. as much as i hated standing gate duty when i was a private, i still didnt think a civilian covering the base was a good idea other than just "creating jobs"

and in A-stan, our platoon was in a FOB with a company of Afghan National Guard soldiers. they ran our perimeter security 24-7.
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Old 04-10-2012, 00:56   #17
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The Army uses alot of civilians.


The truly important civilians, are mostly all dual status reserve or NG part time dual status civilians.


We do not "depend" on civilians for almost any critical functions.


Sorry to interrupt your dream.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:23   #18
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Interesting - I've never seen that, even outside the war zone, like in Kyrgyzstan or Kuwait.
Yeah I was surprised too. The Army would fill us in with them to oversee operations. It was a 50/50 mix on civilian quality. Some were ex-military and sharpe and a few were just idiots. I think they need a better system of hiring for security positions. I was glad to have them though it frees up soldiers to do other assignments. The food services people were nationals from all over the middle east. Once I flew north to Iraq, civilian security didn't exist.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:25   #19
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The Army uses alot of civilians.


The truly important civilians, are mostly all dual status reserve or NG part time dual status civilians.


We do not "depend" on civilians for almost any critical functions.


Sorry to interrupt your dream.
Yes they are important. National Guard and Reservist were right along side us being targets as well.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:55   #20
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The old draftee army was inexpensive and there was an unlimited supply of smart cheap labor that rotated through in 2 years. Come the Volunteer Army with much higher paychecks and all kinds of nice barracks, and expensive family support programs; then the bean counters figured out that many jobs could be done more cheaply by civilians who would work all day at the job and not be diverted by all the military distractions that pulled guys away from their work site. Who needs all that military training to work in a dining hall or office? At one Army installation many years ago the manpower conversion rate was one civilian = two soldiers for garrison support jobs.
I'm not that old - I'm talking about the 80's, not the "draftee Army." I still haven't figured out how they get by cheaper when every civilian gets paid more than a soldier. Being in the reserves, many of our guys work as Army civilians all week and soldiers on weekends - they get paid a LOT more as civilians. There are guys in my unit with jobs that require a high school diploma getting paid more by the Army as civilians than the state pays me to be a lawyer.

And if 1 civilian - 2 soldiers, I
'm wondering why our posts are falling apart and our food sucks. If I could change 1 thing, I'd bring back Army cooks.
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