[JBnTX]

Originally Posted by Jackalo626

I choose to live and let live unless their religion threatens my existence and then it is all bets off for self preservation and I will put my faith in my God and my bullets being aimed better than theirs.

Read my signature line, and think about it.

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

Read my signature line, and think about it.

Sorry for hijacking your thread with this silliness.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

Why insist that God's existence be proven?
Why do you need proof?
Because you use your faith to justify any number of public policies that affect other people whom do not believe what you believe. If I wanted to enact legislation that affected you negatively like say, banning guns, and I used completely unprovable justification for that legislation I would expect you to counter with real facts if they support your position. Don't act like all christians are quietly praying away in churches not interfering with anyone else's rights.
If his existence could be proven, everyone on Earth would automatically
become a bible thumping believer. Where's the fun in that?
No fun in that at all.
God wants us to come to him in faith.
We simple humans don't possess the ability to detect or recognize
the data required to prove his existence. He made it that way on purpose.
That sounds like a perfect cover story for a belief system that has no evidence. Yet you still try to provide evidence to people that you think will buy it. Which is it? No evidence or all the evidence that's been twisted in your favor is actually true?


There's a lot of things in this great big universe that exist that we
are incapable of detecting or understanding.
Name one. Besides god.

We only have 5 senses, but how many senses are there?
The atheist will answer 5, but he would be wrong.

If you don't have and are not aware of additional senses,
how would you know of their existence?
Any evidence of these extra senses? Would one happen to be the strong feeling that god exists?
Yet they might still exist, but are unknown to us.
It's the same with God.

I don't see how a thinking, intelligent person cannot believe in God.
To do so severely limits your imagination and understanding of the universe
and everything in it.

I've found that the more thinking and intelligent a person is the less likely they are to believe in god. Why do the atheists here know so much about the bible but the theists know so little about evolution or cosmology? Why do theists constantly ask the same silly questions and make the same silly statements regardless of how many times they're set straight? You can easily find out why there are no monkeys evolving into humans or how to explain "tide comes in, tide goes out" if you really wanted to know. That's the difference between atheists and theists. Atheists want to know. Theists think they already do.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by Tilley

You are not my brother...you are not a Christian.

HTF can you say if another man has accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his savior?

Someone once said that if all the Christians that some other Christians thought weren't real Christians were to suddenly disappear there wouldn't be any Christians left.

One of life's little ironies is the fact that I've found far more acceptance and far less to bicker about from atheists as an atheist than from Christians as a Christian. Have you ever seen two atheist here arguing back and forth about how far back carbon dating is accurate to or how much dark matter is out there?

[Syclone538]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Would you mind providing a link to an atheist on this forum that claims for a fact that God does not exist?

thanks,
-ArtificialGrape

Originally Posted by Tilley

Uhhh...Norske, kool aid guy, Geko, greendrake, AM, and Smacktard...just to name a few zombies.

...

So I'm sure you wouldn't mind posting the link for each of them doing so, right?

[Bren]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

One common theme runs through every thread in this forum.
The atheists are on the offensive and the believers are on the defensive.

Atheists demand proof for something they believe doesn't exist.

They demand proof because people keep claiming they have to disprove god's existence, which is impossible and those who claim existence logically have the burden of proof.

Believers can never provide that proof because they believe in God based on faith, not facts.

Agree - yet believers keep insisting on trying to offer evidence instead of saying that. Every single thread on the existence of god is full of it.

Why are atheists so hellbent (no pun intended) on disproving something they insist is a myth?

I've never met an atheist or seen a thread trying to disprove god's existence. generally, anybody smart enough to question it is smart enou8gh to know you can't prove nonexistence.

Ever notice how atheists "know for a fact" that God doesn't exist? (Nevermind that to possess that knowledge would require a person to know everything that's knowable in the entire universe.)

No, but I've noticed how they point out over and over that it is impossble to prove god doesn't exist and the problem is really that there is no evidence that he does. I have never seen an atheist claim to know for a fact that god doesn't exist, but feel free to quote one from whatever thread you are talking about.

I'll repeat that: For an atheist to be certain that God doesn't exist, it would require that he know absolutely everything that's knowable in the known universe.

On the other hand, for an educated atheist to admit god does or might exist, all you'd need to offer is some evidence. Same goes for the god's of any religion you choose. There are thousands, just find evidence of one.

If they have such knowledge, then why concern themselves with something as trivial and phoney as religion,
Why would an atheist even care if 85% of the world's population is wrong
and not as smart as they are?

..

Because it is very frustrating to live in a world where people's actions, wars, murders, laws, the choice of our leaders, etc., is all based in whole or part on some crazy myth cavemen used to explain why the sun rises and sets, because they didn't have science yet.

[Vincine]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

One common theme runs through every thread in this forum. The atheists are on the offensive and the believers are on the defensive. . . (snip) . . Why are atheists so hellbent (no pun intended) on disproving something they insist is a myth? . . (snip) . . If they have such knowledge, then why concern themselves with something as trivial and phoney as religion? . . (snip) . . Why would an atheist even care if 85% of the world's population is wrong and not as smart as they are? ..

Oh geez. It seems to me those believers and atheists who keep arguing with each other about the correctness of their prospective positions have a lot more in common with each other than not. They both seem to have this need to be acknowledged as right, or to win, or something. It seems to me they’re argumentative and contentiousness and never seem to tire of daring each other to knock the big chip on their shoulders off.

It’s a big jump to go from atheists on this forum, to most atheists. Most of the atheists and believers I know, really don’t bother with the ‘debate’ at all.

[Kingarthurhk]

Originally Posted by Vincine

Oh geez. It seems to me those believers and atheists who keep arguing with each other about the correctness of their prospective positions have a lot more in common with each other than not. They both seem to have this need to be acknowledged as right, or to win, or something. It seems to me they’re argumentative and contentiousness and never seem to tire of daring each other to knock the big chip on their shoulders off.

It’s a big jump to go from atheists on this forum, to most atheists. Most of the atheists and believers I know, really don’t bother with the ‘debate’ at all.

Very sad when souls are at stake.

[iiibbb]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

One common theme runs through every thread in this forum.
The atheists are on the offensive and the believers are on the defensive.

Atheists demand proof for something they believe doesn't exist.

Believers can never provide that proof because they believe in God
based on faith, not facts.

Why are atheists so hellbent (no pun intended) on disproving something
they insist is a myth?

Ever notice how atheists "know for a fact" that God doesn't exist?
(Nevermind that to possess that knowledge would require a person to know
everything that's knowable in the entire universe.)

I'll repeat that: For an atheist to be certain that God doesn't exist,
it would require that he know absolutely everything that's knowable
in the known universe.

If they have such knowledge, then why concern themselves with something
as trivial and phoney as religion?

Why would an atheist even care if 85% of the world's population is wrong
and not as smart as they are?

..

The same reason that some "Christians" want to disprove things like Evolution because it's a "theory". Some Christians use the word outside of a scientific context, and then turn around and demand creation be taught in schools. They play fast and loose with the language of science.

So Atheists come in here and parse the Bible... or are obtuse about certain meanings.

Christians come in here and defend their faith - which is ironic.

And collectively everyone misses the point.


But this is a Glock website -

[Lone Wolf8634]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

One common theme runs through every thread in this forum.
The atheists are on the offensive and the believers are on the defensive.

In the history of man, the debate has never had a better forum than the internet. So, naturally it will be debated. Just MHO.

Atheists demand proof for something they believe doesn't exist.

No we don't. As explained earlier, you can't prove non-existence.

Believers can never provide that proof because they believe in God
based on faith, not facts.

Why are atheists so hellbent (no pun intended) on disproving something
they insist is a myth?




Ever notice how atheists "know for a fact" that God doesn't exist?
(Nevermind that to possess that knowledge would require a person to know
everything that's knowable in the entire universe.)

I'll repeat that: For an atheist to be certain that God doesn't exist,
it would require that he know absolutely everything that's knowable
in the known universe.

No one can prove that god doesn't exist. But I dont need to know "absolutely everything that's knowable
in the known universe." to discard the idea of a "God". And you do the same, you don't believe in other religions gods, yet you also dont have universal knowledge. Using this argument, you should believe in every god known to man, simply because you dont know.

If they have such knowledge, then why concern themselves with something
as trivial and phoney as religion?

Why would an atheist even care if 85% of the world's population is wrong
and not as smart as they are?


..

I dont involve myself in most of the debates here. Mostly because it only took a few tries to teach me that I suck at debating, and I don't have the requisite knowledge to keep up with many of you.

But I do lurk, and the reason I do(and this is only myself, I can't speak to anyone else's reasons) is because the idea of believing, wholeheartedly, in the Bible, religion and a God in general, is so alien and unbelievable to me. And maybe by reading the thoughts of those of you that believe is my way of trying to understand how you can seriously believe what you do. Because my opinion (please notice the emphasis on that word) is that you don't. (not a specific "you")

I think people call themselves believers for a variety of reasons, family, upbringing, peers, self image fear etc. But I honestly cannot fathom actual belief in something so unprovable and fantastical as a "God".

I do not mean to offend, and I really don't wanna change your mind about your beliefs.

Originally Posted by Tilley

ALL OF YOU GUYS WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR EACH AND EVERY WORD YOU HAVE UTTERED OR WRITTEN OR THOUGHT DENYING CHRIST.

No, I won't.

[ksg0245]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Uhhh...Norske, kool aid guy, Geko, greendrake, AM, and Smacktard...just to name a few zombies.

You're aware that claiming something is true that you know to be false is called "lying," right?

Originally Posted by Tilley

I don't need to prove God exists to anyone, and I don't really care if any of you folks believe.

And yet, your behavior indicates otherwise.

Originally Posted by Tilley

You guys are just children who like to tease Christians and pull wings off flies. I get it.

Apparently not. Atheists don't accept your unsupported assertion of deity any more than you accept the unsupported assertion of Krishna's deity. And when those unsupported assertions intrude into, say, the teaching of science, it's a problem.

Originally Posted by Tilley

And truly, it is entertainment for you guys, having run off all the mainstream Christians on this forum. There is a 1000% better chance any of my dogs will make the heavenly cut upstairs before you guys for one reason:

ALL OF YOU GUYS WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR EACH AND EVERY WORD YOU HAVE UTTERED OR WRITTEN OR THOUGHT DENYING CHRIST.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Originally Posted by Tilley

Now I really like you guys or I wouldn't tease you, but I seriously do believe unless things change regarding your beliefs before you start breathing in dirt, not matter how moral you think you are, or how good you are, the Bible says you will die in your sins, and be resurrected to live for eternity in utter desolation and eternal torment.

So your loving deity is going to allow some of his children to suffer infinitely because they couldn't force themselves to believe something that contradicts logic and everything known about reality without evidence?

What prevents God giving atheists the evidence they ask for? If he exists, he presumably knows exactly what would convince each one.

Originally Posted by Tilley

Serious stuff, huh?

No, not really. It's a story designed to modify behavior through threat.

Originally Posted by Tilley

Some of you I feel I know from writing over the years, but all of you guys are still nothing more to me than words on a forum. I wouldn't know your screams of torment from that of Adolf, Saddam or Barach. I know that sounds cold, but I have to make sure I NEVER personify anyone of you non-believers, because if I did, it would crush me hard to lose you guys to that dirtbag satan.

If I thought I could help any of you guys, I would sell my Mustang today to buy a ticket to you to share the Good News of Christ...but I just don't see it here.

I care about Smacktard and hope he will change his mind, and of all you zombies out there, I feel Animal Mother will someday find Christ...but the rest of you???


Sorry if I offended anyone here now or in the past, but I can only fight the fights I can win. The rest of the time I will trade funny quips until I am called home.


And for the record:

I am saved.

Can you explain why your omnipotent deity is forced to require a blood sacrifice before he can forgive his creation for being exactly how he created it?

What prevents him just saying "I forgive you" without nailing up his son?

[ksg0245]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

Why insist that God's existence be proven? Why do you need proof?

You'd require evidence before accept Zeus as a deity, wouldn't you?

Or do you just accept that on faith?

Originally Posted by JBnTX

If his existence could be proven, everyone on Earth would automatically become a bible thumping believer. Where's the fun in that?

God wants us to come to him in faith.

We simple humans don't possess the ability to detect or recognize the data required to prove his existence. He made it that way on purpose.

Why would he do that?

Do you have any objective, verifiable evidence for that assertion?

Originally Posted by JBnTX

There's a lot of things in this great big universe that exist that we are incapable of detecting or understanding.

For example?

Originally Posted by JBnTX

We only have 5 senses, but how many senses are there? The atheist will answer 5, but he would be wrong.

Okay, your evidence for additional senses is...?

Originally Posted by JBnTX

If you don't have and are not aware of additional senses, how would you know of their existence?

If you don't have them, they don't exist. If you're not aware of them, there may still be evidence available.

Originally Posted by JBnTX

Yet they might still exist, but are unknown to us. It's the same with God.

Maybe. Until objective, verifiable evidence is presented, why assume, particularly when natural explanations give every indication of being sufficient?

Originally Posted by JBnTX

I don't see how a thinking, intelligent person cannot believe in God. To do so severely limits your imagination and understanding of the universe and everything in it.

How?

[Kentak]

Another false premise about atheists. I'm not aware of any atheists who try to disprove the existence of god(s).

Do you believe invisible, magical fairies live inside fire hydrants? No? I don't either. How would we disprove they exist? Suppose someone said they believed in those invisible, magical fairies that lived in fire hydrants. Because we can't prove they don't exist, does that make the belief in fire hydrant fairies valid, or take the burden of proof off of the fairy believer?

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Uhhh...Norske, kool aid guy, Geko, greendrake, AM, and Smacktard...just to name a few zombies.

I'll join the others that have asked you to share any post where I've made an effort to disprove God's existence.

I don't need to prove God exists to anyone

Lucky for you.

Sorry if I offended anyone here now or in the past, but I can only fight the fights I can win.

Which is to say, none of them.

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

I'll join the others that have asked you to share any post where I've made an effort to disprove God's existence.

Do I take your response to mean that you do believe in God?

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Do I take your response to mean that you do believe in God?

I don't know how you take it. You should take it as a request to reference a post where I've made an effort to disprove God, given that you claimed I have done so.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by Kentak

Another false premise about atheists. I'm not aware of any atheists who try to disprove the existence of god(s).

Do you believe invisible, magical fairies live inside fire hydrants? No? I don't either. How would we disprove they exist? Suppose someone said they believed in those invisible, magical fairies that lived in fire hydrants. Because we can't prove they don't exist, does that make the belief in fire hydrant fairies valid, or take the burden of proof off of the fairy believer?

"We need to ban porn because the invisible hydrant fairies don't like it."
"Gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married because the invisible hydrant fairies don't like that."
"The invisible hydrant fairy theory of creation should be taught as science in schools."

Yeah, after you cross a certain point of expecting others to take you seriously you need to provide actual proof. What's that you say? The hydrant fairies require you to come to them on faith and don't provide evidence of their existence? Then they may want to rethink their approach.

"But this country was founded on invisible hydrant fairy principles!"

BFD. They couldn't prove it then and they can't now.

[Tommy Hanrahan]

As a card carrying atheist I swear I have never tried to to disprove the existence of any god. Having lived 48 yrs as a devout catholic I can confidently say there is no supreme being, no man in the sky, no all powerful and ever loving god. Religion is a load of dung.
If you believe in something that helps you feel better about your life, good for you, enjoy. But do not push it on some one who does not want or need it.

[muscogee]

You want me to prove a haploid zombie who allegedly ascended into Heaven 2000 years ago but left no evidence of his existence other than gossip isn't God? I really don't think I need to.

[Bren]

I have a question: Why Are Christians So Obsessed With Proving God's Existence?

Doesn't that demonstrate a lack of faith?

[Norske]

Originally Posted by muscogee

You want me to prove a haploid zombie who allegedly ascended into Heaven 2000 years ago but left no evidence of his existence other than gossip isn't God? I really don't think I need to.

I have always wondered why if Jesus's "message" was so all-fired important to him, why he did not write it down.

Same with Mohammed and the Quaran.

Both left their messages to be written (and folded, spindled, and mutilated in the process ) by others, after they each died, or were taken bodily into heaven, as the case may have been.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

For an atheist to be certain that God doesn't exist, it would require that he know absolutely everything that's knowable in the known universe.

Your logic is flawed.

I can't be certain that I am not a bodiless mind floating in empty space and that I have halucinated my entire perceived reality in order to entertain myself and keep myself occupied (although, I don't know why I'd dream up some of these characters in this forum). I can't disprove that. It is not possible for me to be absolutely certain that this is not the case. At the same time, I feel comfortable stating that this is not happening.

No need for me to know all that is knowable to discount this absurd scenario nor to discount the absurd scenario of a supreme deity.

Why would an atheist even care if 85% of the world's population is wrong and not as smart as they are?

Because religion causes soceity to misallocate necessary resources, it attempts to place uneeded limitations on individual (read "my") liberty, it costs lives in the form of holy wars. It is a scourge upon mankind that needs to be eradicated.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Syclone538

So I'm sure you wouldn't mind posting the link for each of them doing so, right?

Actually, I have, multiple times. In fact, no one has yet been able to defeat my proof. They always fall back on the "transcedence" argument. Which they are unable to prove.

[Dalton Wayne]

The burden of proof is on the believers until they show me something I can see, touch, taste smell. other then a fictional book written hundreds of years after the fact I'll remain an atheist.
now show me some proof I'm all ears

[Snapper2]

Originally Posted by Dalton Wayne

The burden of proof is on the believers until they show me something I can see, touch, taste smell. other then a fictional book written hundreds of years after the fact I'll remain an atheist.
now show me some proof I'm all ears

Proof is life itself. Its the only proof any of us ever gets.Not ending after death, our beliefs live on. We pass on our believing or unbelieving hearts to those that know us or who are close to us. Even our actions influence others be it positive or negatively. Seeing, touching,taste,smell are natural senses that can be fooled. People who are without a few of these are usually extra strong in the others.God deals with the heart of a man first. Not the senses.