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Old 04-07-2012, 10:04   #21
arclight610
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You did good. I would have told the punk that I'd break his ****ing face in if he kept staring at me.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:22   #22
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She turns it on, see's that is not as bright and says exactly this... "This one ain't good, I need that one." I said that I needed it for my house, and her son said "for what?" .
Should have smacked him in the head with it and said "for this", and closed the door in their faces.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:57   #23
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It is a revealing story of human nature. It's common mistake to believe that others have similar values and think the same way we do. Had I been offered a flashlight and extra batteries I would have been grateful enough to later return them with fresh batteries, thereby keeping good relations and the possibility of help in the future if needed.

My guess is that the mother and son never bothered to return the flashlight, even though it was given to them. Do you suppose they were also renters? (Not to paint with a wide brush here.) Some people live their lives for nothing more than immediate gratification, never investing in anything.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:04   #24
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I can't believe how "nice" some of you people are. An offer was made, for her to take the cheap flashlight and batteries. If any complaint, offer would have been retracted and said persons sent on their way in the dark, no compassion for dushbags.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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I'm with Clyde.
Also, you just had 2 new volunteers for your list.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:07   #25
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I'm with Clyde.
Also, you just had 2 new volunteers for your list.




Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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Old 04-07-2012, 14:32   #26
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I'm with Clyde.
Also, you just had 2 new volunteers for your list.
This is not the first time that being "nice" and not following my instincts may have gotten me in a spot I didn't want to be. You guys may be right. What does "2 new volunteers" mean?
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:19   #27
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Here's a trick I've used to good effect with panhandlers. Maybe it would work in this situation too.

At the point you've given your spare flashlight away, you immediately make a counter-request of greater value: "I am really light on funds this month, can you spare me $100?" Then keep making your request over and over. "I really need $100, do you have any cash?" Suddenly the shoe is on the other foot. When they say no, you can challenge them: "What do you need your cash for?"

This works great for me with panhandlers. They slide up and say, "Hey buddy can you spare $5? See, I have this problem...blah blah blah" and I say, "I was just going to ask you the same question! I need to fill my gas tank to get home, do YOU have any spare cash you could give me?" Generally they reverse engines quickly and make tracks away. You always have the option of hectoring them for not being generous, if you like: "Hey! I asked you politely, and now you're treating me like some homeless person! Hey! You need to spread the wealth around!"

The trick here is to appear angry and entitled. Like the other person is offending your morality by not giving you what you ask for.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:10   #28
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I get that everyday and it's not SHTF. I was with my friends at dinner tonight. I was waiting out front, he went inside to get a number. On the way out, he opened the door and some people walked in while he was holding it and didn't say thanks. He was like whatever. I didn't pay it any attention.

Later, when I walked in, I pulled the door open and was ready to walk in, 4 people walked out, blocking me and made me back off to the side while they all exited... none looked me in the eye, none said thanks.

I was like... whatever happened to common courtesy with each other?

In the OP's scenario, I would not even bother to justify myself. I hate it when people talk to you and make you defend your decision to have YOUR stuff... which also happens very commonly when someone borrows your money and you have to ask for it back by explaining how you are short or you need YOUR money back for whatever reason. It's your money, why do you feel the need to justify why you need it back? Makes no sense.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:52   #29
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Be the FIRST TO ASK.

Just like with your loser friend that is always asking you for $50. on Wednesday to tie him over till payday on Friday. You just KNOW when you see him that he is GOING to ask you to bum a couple bucks till Friday.

So next time when you first see him you start off with a 2 minute tirade about how rough times are now, all your bills, and then immediately- without stopping- you ask HIM for $50. till Friday.

Do it the following week until he stops. Eventually he'll stop talking to you.

Similar concept.

I talked 15 years ago about having a hand painted sign- "will trade firewood for food" outside your gate next to a measelely looking pile of sticks (the firewood).

Then if someone asks, the VERY FIRST YOU SAY is "do you know where I can get some food? You need any firewood? Got any food?"

This is where the people that think they will be the "hero of their subdivision" are going to get tripped up. Cause they want the perceived power of doling out stuff. But it's not really power.... This is why you see the chest thumping posts with crap like "they'll have to haul all the manure out of my chicken pen, till the garden by hand and chop me 10 cords of wood for 2 mouthfulls of rice" type ridiculous statements on the net.

We have to understand human nature if we are going to survive. In today's world, people resent ANYONE they think has more than they do. Don't kid yourself on this. Look at all the people that brag on the quantities of their preps on forums. A few suck up to them but overall, everyone hates them. That's human nature, people envy what others have.

So by all means if you are lead to help others, help them, but help them in a way that security comes first and charity second.

But DO NOT expect that handing out a bucket of rice, can of beans, etc. is going to win you friends and allies. Maybe two hundred years ago when everyone knew suffering and doing without. NOT TODAY. Today you would just be CONFIRMING YOURSELF AS A TARGET.

And as such- if you give out stuff you will appear weak to them.

If you act a hardarse, then you give them justification to steal from you, to see you "fall on a knife 18 times backwards" etc.

This is why the idea of being the only prepared person around countless unprepared people won't work.

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Old 04-08-2012, 07:36   #30
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I get that everyday and it's not SHTF. I was with my friends at dinner tonight. I was waiting out front, he went inside to get a number. On the way out, he opened the door and some people walked in while he was holding it and didn't say thanks. He was like whatever. I didn't pay it any attention.

Later, when I walked in, I pulled the door open and was ready to walk in, 4 people walked out, blocking me and made me back off to the side while they all exited... none looked me in the eye, none said thanks.

I was like... whatever happened to common courtesy with each other?

In the OP's scenario, I would not even bother to justify myself. I hate it when people talk to you and make you defend your decision to have YOUR stuff... which also happens very commonly when someone borrows your money and you have to ask for it back by explaining how you are short or you need YOUR money back for whatever reason. It's your money, why do you feel the need to justify why you need it back? Makes no sense.
That is my pet peeve! My wife and I always talk about this and it really ticks us off. She is a school teacher and always has her students hold the door for the next one in line and say please and thankyou. Then we go out to eat at decent place and while I am holding the door for 4 people behind me and they don't even make eye contact with me.

After reading this thread I told my wife that from now on I am going to ask the ones who don't say thanks for $5, loudly and persistantly. If they ask why it's "Come on... I held the door open for you... you tip doormen don't you? Are you to cheap to tip the doorman?" I'll stay with it until I get my $5 or until they give up but I'll make sure that they know it's because they didn't say thanks and I want my $5!

OP I learned a lot in this thread, mostly that we have to find a way to judge who will appreciate our help and start with them. The people who won't appreciate our help are technically beggars and we should treat them accordingly. If there is anything left over after the harvest, it's available for charity.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:30   #31
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.. An offer was made, for her to take the cheap flashlight and batteries. If any complaint, offer would have been retracted and said persons sent on their way in the dark, no compassion for dushbags...
I feel exactly the same way.
And I would offer no explanations why I want to keep my stuff.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:42   #32
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DO NOT expect that handing out a bucket of rice, can of beans, etc. is going to win you friends and allies.
Agree with your post, but this point here actually depends on how it's done. What you want to build is a "web of reciprocity," if possible, with responsible people. Giving too much, and not taking in return, leads to resentment. But giving and taking and giving and taking is the model that leads to a stable relationship. So my advice is, if you think the relationship is worthwhile, and you give something, be sure to ask for something in exchange of roughly equivalent value. Then you aren't the "evil benefactor," you are merely engaging in mutually beneficial trade.

For the OP, sounds like any sort of relationship with the flashlight stealers would not be beneficial. But there will be other neighbors that are worth helping...and who will help you out in return.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:14   #33
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They're known as Socialists. Or as Obama voters, same thing. 52.9% of the population in 2008.
This would be 52% of voters....

I think Wisconsin's upcoming Governor recall vote will help set the tone not only for this state but the nation.

In 2008, Wisconsin went blue but voted in a Republican Governor who the very Democratic public worker's union is desperately trying to get recalled.

Let's be honest - a lot of s*** has happened in the past 4 years.

If the recall is successful I give up all hope for this country. Walker basically eliminated a nearly $4 billion deficit by asking union workers after how many decades to pay 25% of their own medical and pension benefits. Ironically, these people are too stupid to realize without this contribution the state may very well not exist financially to meet this obligation in 30 years. While some people call this tinfoil hat thinking when 75-80% of a state's budget solely goes to pay for its staff (who make up less than 6% of the state's population) and not buildings, computers, equipment, etc something is wrong.

To put this into perspective, I work for a Fortune 50 health insurance company - by law 85% of our premiums need to go to pay for health claims. So where we get 15% of revenue to pay for salaries AND computers, buildings, etc state agencies get upwards of 80% to pay for salaries alone.

Puts credence in the fact the average Wisconsin state employee salary and benefits package ($53703 PLUS $18000 in benefits) is double the average public sector's

If Walker loses the recall vote - Wisconsin will once again go blue
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:37   #34
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I think Wisconsin's upcoming Governor recall vote will help set the tone not only for this state but the nation.
Good points.

I would add the Supreme court vote on Obamacare.

OK - the slide into oblivion happens fastest

Cancels some provisions - slide fast

Cancels all - slide slowed but not by much. 15T deficit and growing is the sword over all our heads.
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Old 04-08-2012, 13:04   #35
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Agree with your post, but this point here actually depends on how it's done. What you want to build is a "web of reciprocity," if possible, with responsible people. Giving too much, and not taking in return, leads to resentment. But giving and taking and giving and taking is the model that leads to a stable relationship. So my advice is, if you think the relationship is worthwhile, and you give something, be sure to ask for something in exchange of roughly equivalent value. Then you aren't the "evil benefactor," you are merely engaging in mutually beneficial trade.

For the OP, sounds like any sort of relationship with the flashlight stealers would not be beneficial. But there will be other neighbors that are worth helping...and who will help you out in return.
That was kinda what I was envisioning when I mentioned that- we call them "Takers." It's all about them, they are the usual people out there now.

Yes sometimes little "gifts" can be helpful to the right people. These are NOT the "right people" that we are talking about though
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Old 04-08-2012, 22:05   #36
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........We have to understand human nature if we are going to survive. In today's world, people resent ANYONE they think has more than they do. Don't kid yourself on this. Look at all the people that brag on the quantities of their preps on forums. A few suck up to them but overall, everyone hates them. That's human nature, people envy what others have.

..........

Lowdown3
I think you are doing a bit of projecting, or over generalization.

I don't resent people that have more than I do. I am part of the 2% and I know what it takes to get there. It involves a lot of work and/or sacrifices for the vast majority of those that get there. I could probably climb higher up the chain, but I chose not to continue to make the sacrifices to to do it.

There are people on here that have a LOT more preps than I do. I don't hate them. I don't envy them. Some I admire for what they have accomplished. Others I shake my head, and say, I would not have made the choices they did. I would not have made the sacrifices they did, to prepare for some of the least likely to occur things, versus the some of the much more likely things (retirement?). But perhaps they know they won't live to retirement so they are preparing, so that their family to be prepared to live on after their death.

We all live our lives and make our choices. I admire those that worked for their success, I have no ppity for those that choose not to take action they are capable of to get our of their situation. I do pity the those that end up in bad situations through no real fault of their own.

Luck goes to the prepared.
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Old 04-09-2012, 00:13   #37
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That is my pet peeve! My wife and I always talk about this and it really ticks us off. She is a school teacher and always has her students hold the door for the next one in line and say please and thankyou. Then we go out to eat at decent place and while I am holding the door for 4 people behind me and they don't even make eye contact with me.

After reading this thread I told my wife that from now on I am going to ask the ones who don't say thanks for $5, loudly and persistantly. If they ask why it's "Come on... I held the door open for you... you tip doormen don't you? Are you to cheap to tip the doorman?" I'll stay with it until I get my $5 or until they give up but I'll make sure that they know it's because they didn't say thanks and I want my $5!

OP I learned a lot in this thread, mostly that we have to find a way to judge who will appreciate our help and start with them. The people who won't appreciate our help are technically beggars and we should treat them accordingly. If there is anything left over after the harvest, it's available for charity.
It's one thing to willfully hold the door open for someone. If I do that, then it's my call and I am doing it for a stranger, usually a lady or the elderly and if I get a thanks, great, if not, then whatever, I took it on myself.

In this situation, we were opening the door for ourselves and these people just bum-rushed the door while we were opening it so we had to literally move out of the way and wait for them to go through and none of them looked me or my friend in the eye and said a word. I would rather they give me a dirty look and flipped me off, at least that shows they know I am alive.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:03   #38
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I story on here by a fellow member got me thinking about the ice storm that hit the Midwest about 3 years ago. I heard about the chaos that was around me, like folks fighting over water and generators and more than a few gas stations running out of fuel. But... one, little incident hit home for me. My wife and I were able to get by without going out, pretty much during the whole BAD part of the weather which was about 5 days and we were without power for about 9 days. I was using my Surefire flashlight a lot during the dark and it's got a BRIGHT led light. (awesome light, btw) A neighbor 3 houses down who I'd never met, asks to use it because apparently, they don't have a single flashlight. I do the neighborly thing, but not wanting to hand my favorite light over to her, I go down the way and light up her garage for her so she can see, then go back home. She knocks and asks to use it again a short while later with her son, so rather than giving them my $100+ LED light to her I tell her that she can HAVE one of the cheap Rayovac's that I have laying around the house. She turns it on, see's that is not as bright and says exactly this... "This one ain't good, I need that one." I said that I needed it for my house, and her son said "for what?" I basically explained that it was... well... mine, and I'd like to keep it for my wife and I, but she could HAVE the other one, AND the extra D-cells too. Her son stared me down for a bit, and she said "hmmmpfff" and after both acting first confused and then angry that I wanted to keep my better light instead of the old one I gave them, they left without a Thank you. Small details project big problems for the future. I'll be keeping my eye on them next time.
As soon as they copped an attitude about the flashlight I would have told them they should have been prepared and then my next words would have been " **** off!! First of all you put yourself in a bad position to leave your home and go down to their location. I hope you were armed. Secondly look out for number one if they don't have assets to share..shame on them.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:05   #39
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:18   #40
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I think you are doing a bit of projecting, or over generalization.

I don't resent people that have more than I do. I am part of the 2% and I know what it takes to get there. It involves a lot of work and/or sacrifices for the vast majority of those that get there. I could probably climb higher up the chain, but I chose not to continue to make the sacrifices to to do it.

There are people on here that have a LOT more preps than I do. I don't hate them. I don't envy them. Some I admire for what they have accomplished. Others I shake my head, and say, I would not have made the choices they did. I would not have made the sacrifices they did, to prepare for some of the least likely to occur things, versus the some of the much more likely things (retirement?). But perhaps they know they won't live to retirement so they are preparing, so that their family to be prepared to live on after their death.

We all live our lives and make our choices. I admire those that worked for their success, I have no ppity for those that choose not to take action they are capable of to get our of their situation. I do pity the those that end up in bad situations through no real fault of their own.

Luck goes to the prepared.
Your first sentence applies to you also "(I think you are doing a bit of projecting, or over generalization.")

That you think that way does not mean that a significant number of people do also. I think many on this forum would hold your opinion but only a small percentage in the general population.

In the USA, immediate gratification rules. Shows like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars re-enforce that everyone's opinion counts - even if they do not know anything about the subject.

I've read similar posts as yours before - first person projections. I'm guessing that if a person can post one contrary opinion they think it negates the op's premise - it does not. The key factor is if a significant number of people hold that opinion.

I agree with Lowdown3 about understanding human nature and the point he mentioned is one among many.
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