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Old 04-04-2012, 20:31   #1
Veedubklown
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Removing roll marks

Is there any info on a firearm that's illeagal to remove, besides the serial number?

ETA: I called ATF. Results in post#30.

Such as the manufacturer info on the frame, here;

General Firearms Forum

Or the C.A.I. GEORGIA VT. on the other side? They're very shallow, and would be easily removed, and would be great to clean up the slide/frame, just don't want to get myself in trouble.

"Ignorance is no excuse for the law."
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Last edited by Veedubklown; 04-06-2012 at 14:36.. Reason: Question solved!
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Old 04-04-2012, 20:51   #2
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CAI is the importer's mark. Is it legal to remove? Some people will say yes, some will say no.
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Old 04-04-2012, 21:02   #3
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Dude, your ok as long as you don't touch the serial number. The manufacturer is required by law to put their mark on there, just like an importer. As the owner, you can refinish the gun, polish the gun, do whatever the heck you want, OTHER than remove or modify the serial number in anyway.
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Old 04-04-2012, 23:04   #4
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However, if that gun with ALL identifying marks except the serial number EVER gets stolen, the odds of getting it back go WAY down without a make, model, etc.

You DO realize that your serial number is likely the same as the serial number on other firearms. Some of them may be stolen, as well. There are many, many thousands of stolen firearms, on an ATF list, somewhere.

Without the make and model information, the odds of getting yours back goes way, way down.

And, IMHO, the small markings on the right side of the frame are not worth the effort and expense to remove.

I'd leave the pistol as is, and just shoot it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:28   #5
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Removing any factory engravings or markings from a firearm seems like a recipe for jail time, IMO.
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Old 04-05-2012, 14:39   #6
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Removing any factory engravings or markings from a firearm seems like a recipe for jail time, IMO.
NOT HARDLY. You need to do some self-educating. As others mentioned, it depends on EXACTLY what markings are removed.

I can assure you that if you removed the Dead Sea Scroll that Ruger places on their arms related to reading the owner's manual before use, you would NOT be running afoul of the law in the slightest, and you would be improving the appearance to boot!!
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:55   #7
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Removing any factory engravings or markings from a firearm seems like a recipe for jail time, IMO.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:47   #8
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You can remove everything but the serial number. Example being that many rifles the company name and address is on the barrel which you can obvious have replaced with another barrel which may have no markings or only the caliber. For you auto pistol removing that marking on the slide would in effect be no different than fitting it with a different slide that had no markings.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:14   #9
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I would love to remove everything from my 92 but make, model, and serial number (obviously).
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Old 04-05-2012, 21:03   #10
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Originally Posted by vtbluegrass View Post
You can remove everything but the serial number. Example being that many rifles the company name and address is on the barrel which you can obvious have replaced with another barrel which may have no markings or only the caliber. For you auto pistol removing that marking on the slide would in effect be no different than fitting it with a different slide that had no markings.
I always thought the serial number is the only mandated marking.......and, this post by vtbluegrass would make sense. I have a Seecamp and PPK/S that have nothing on the frame, but the serial number. Since anything is replaceable except the frame and serial number, this would tend to confirm the information in vtbluegrass's post.........

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Old 04-05-2012, 21:05   #11
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NOT HARDLY. You need to do some self-educating. As others mentioned, it depends on EXACTLY what markings are removed.

I can assure you that if you removed the Dead Sea Scroll that Ruger places on their arms related to reading the owner's manual before use, you would NOT be running afoul of the law in the slightest, and you would be improving the appearance to boot!!
Until you run afoul of an LEO that doesn't know any better, and tosses you in jail for a day or three until the DA looks up the applicable laws and says you're OK.
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Old 04-05-2012, 21:10   #12
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Until you run afoul of an LEO that doesn't know any better, and tosses you in jail for a day or three until the DA looks up the applicable laws and says you're OK.
Markings are obliterated on US mil arms when they are refinished ALL THE TIME. The ONLY thing the military ever remarks when damaged is the serial number.

I guess if you have a US mil-surp with worn markings other than the SN, you are toast, according to your paranoid theory.
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Old 04-05-2012, 21:40   #13
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Markings are obliterated on US mil arms when they are refinished ALL THE TIME. The ONLY thing the military ever remarks when damaged is the serial number.

I guess if you have a US mil-surp with worn markings other than the SN, you are toast, according to your paranoid theory.
I simply prefer not to invite trouble when I can help it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 21:46   #14
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I simply prefer not to invite trouble when I can help it.
Where in the world do you live that you can get locked up for 3 days without a lawyer?
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Old 04-05-2012, 22:00   #15
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Where in the world do you live that you can get locked up for 3 days without a lawyer?
I've seen it happen in cases where someone got lucked up Friday night, and couldn't get seen for release until Monday when the court re-opened.

Either way, I'm simply trying to make the point that screwing around with the markings on a firearm seems like a good way to invite trouble on yourself. Obviously plenty of people here disagree, but that's how I feel about it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 22:02   #16
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You've seen it happen? I'm sorry but that's BS to me. Unless it was used in a crime or in a SD situation, there is no way a cop will even know about the markings.
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Old 04-06-2012, 00:51   #17
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I've seen it happen in cases where someone got lucked up Friday night, and couldn't get seen for release until Monday when the court re-opened.

Either way, I'm simply trying to make the point that screwing around with the markings on a firearm seems like a good way to invite trouble on yourself. Obviously plenty of people here disagree, but that's how I feel about it.
ppffffffttt!

As long as you have the original serial numbers on there, you'll be fine.
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Old 04-06-2012, 00:57   #18
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As mentioned previously, manufacturers markings denoting brand and model are routinely obliterated through processes such as refinishing and the effects of severe use or corrosion and neglect.

Never mind that it would be a nightmare for law enforcement to catalog all the variations in markings on every model so they can determine you've violated some rule or regulation that I'm positive doesn't even exist.

The serial number is the only marking that must be present and unaltered.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:29   #19
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Until you run afoul of an LEO that doesn't know any better, and tosses you in jail for a day or three until the DA looks up the applicable laws and says you're OK.


So, I suppose filing off a "Mum" from an Arisaka, or filing off (or peening) the swastika or rune from a K98k would get you a stint in the gray-bar hotel????

Then, I think 'that' person would have his lawyer look into "False Imprisonment" or "Lack of Due Process", or suing the officer for 'Committing Stupid'.
As Mr. T would say, "I pity the foo!"


As others have said. . . . removing the serial number is illegal.
Anything else is fair game.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:47   #20
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I would love to remove everything from my 92 but make, model, and serial number (obviously).
Trade it in and find an M9 variant and your wish will come true.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:26   #21
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Your best bet is to actually call the ATF. Listening to people here on whether or not you can remove factory markings is bad ju-ju.

Give them a call-

ATF Firearms Technology Branch - (304) 616-4300

Last edited by Airborne Infantryman; 04-06-2012 at 13:49..
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:28   #22
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Your best bet is to actually call the ATF. Listening to people here on whether or not you can remove factory markings is bad ju-ju.

Give them a call-

ATF Firearms Technology Branch - 301 260 54876
Better yet, get it in writing.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:38   #23
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In Kentucky, it is a class A misdemeanor (up to 12 months in jail) to "deface, cover, alter, or destroy the manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark" on a firearm, or if you possess one, know that has been done to it.

Check your state's laws.
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Last edited by Bren; 04-06-2012 at 12:38..
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:41   #24
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Trade it in and find an M9 variant and your wish will come true.
No, thanks, I like this one.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:59   #25
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No, thanks, I like this one.
Then add an M9. They lack the warning markings.
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