Sovereign Citizen Help

Skycop1 · 03-08-2012, 10:23

I have been tasked with putting together a basic briefing for my department regarding how to respond when interacting with a sovereign citizen. I am starting this from scratch. If anyone has any briefings, powerpoints or templates for such it would be very helpful.

Thanks.

**Hack** · 03-08-2012, 10:29

On the street you definitely need to handle with care. There are those who have no compunction concerning the killing of local LEO. If I initiate a stop on the place I work, (one of our rolling armed posts for example), and could tell by fake plates, then the person would immediately be detained, handed over to local LE for processing. I would keep my weapon drawn and ready, and wait for back up, if that is afforded.

Definitely handle with care, and look for the bulletins that come across about any in your area.

OXCOPS · 03-08-2012, 10:40

They can be tasered just like anyone else. Just tossing that out there. Maybe put that in the appendix.

OXCOPS · 03-08-2012, 10:49

http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/sovereign-citizen/

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/scm.asp?xpicked=4

http://www.sovereign-citizenship.net/home.html This is one of their sites and offers a glimpse into their approach to LE contacts. They also claim that their book will teach you how to "make money off the cops" by eluding to lawsuits for violating their rights. I would seek the advice of counsel and add some "do's and don'ts" to your brief. While they claim you can't do something, you may very well be able to. It would help to know where the lines are.

OXCOPS · 03-08-2012, 10:56

Also, if you can stomach the DOJ, here is the FBI's take on them.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...reign-citizens

DoogieHowser · 03-08-2012, 11:06

I'll try and remember to scan a printout we have around here somewhere.

"Includes special chapter on "having ninja babies" and how to protect your family from predatory public pirates with the legal self-defense art of "judicial jiu-jitsu." WTF? Ninja Babies?

**Javelin** · 03-08-2012, 11:09

Maybe come up with a better buzz word to more helpfully generalize the population so that you can include everyone that is pro-gun, believes in civil liberties, and the Constitution.

lpo · 03-08-2012, 11:11

I think I heard on the news they have been put on the "extremest" list. Check on the homeland security website or rescources your department may have from them.

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lndshark · 03-08-2012, 12:02

I'm attending training in mid-April that's hosted by the Bureau of Justice SLATT (state and local anti-terrorism training) program.

Go to SLATT.org for training info and to find out when seminars are being held in your area.

If I'm provided with any information I'll be happy to pass it along to you...

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ray9898 · 03-08-2012, 13:04

Extreme caution. If you are alerted by the fake plates then I would wait for backup even before the initial approach.

ray9898 · 03-08-2012, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javelin

Maybe come up with a better buzz word to more helpfully generalize the population so that you can include everyone that is pro-gun, believes in civil liberties, and the Constitution.

While everything you just said describes me perfectly, none of that has anything to do with these folks.

***Sam Spade*** · 03-08-2012, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javelin

Maybe come up with a better buzz word to more helpfully generalize the population so that you can include everyone that is pro-gun, believes in civil liberties, and the Constitution.

Let me guess: you don't understand what all the fuss is about "bath salts" and "spice" either.

CBennett · 03-08-2012, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack

On the street you definitely need to handle with care. There are those who have no compunction concerning the killing of local LEO. If I initiate a stop on the place I work, (one of our rolling armed posts for example), and could tell by fake plates, then the person would immediately be detained, handed over to local LE for processing. I would keep my weapon drawn and ready, and wait for back up, if that is afforded.

Definitely handle with care, and look for the bulletins that come across about any in your area.

Agreed we have several of them in our joint. Our SIS office has a good briefing we just got in our annual training on them and what they are all about.

lndshark · 03-08-2012, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray9898

Extreme caution. If you are alerted by the fake plates then I would wait for backup even before the initial approach.

Yeah. Think "Hutaree."

**Javelin** · 03-08-2012, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

Let me guess: you don't understand what all the fuss is about "bath salts" and "spice" either.

I'm not a cop. Though I played one in Iraq and took down lots of HVT's... I have no clue what you do in the privacy of your bathroom Sam.

As far as I am concerned these criteria that the FBI & DOJ are using seem to be aimed very loosely at anyone that is patriotic. By the very definition of 2008 HS report Napolitano declares even us Iraq vets as potential terror suspects.

So you guys have fun with your little Ranger games.

EMTCOP · 03-08-2012, 17:01

You need to get with Bob Paudert. His son and nephew were shot and killed in the line of duty in West Memphis, Arkansas, by two sovereign citizens. Bob was the Chief of Police in West Memphis when this occurred. He now travels around the country teaching law enforcement about the dangers of sovereign citizens.

You can probably get some information on how to get in touch with him from the West Memphis, Arkansas, Police Department at (870) 732-7555.

glockurai · 03-08-2012, 17:17

Going after HVTs has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Different circumstances and very different ROE. And yes I've been there.

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Chad Rogers · 03-08-2012, 17:23

This doesn't directly answer the question, but here's a pretty good, free, 45 page report on the American Patriot Movement.

http://www.cjesconsultants.com/asset...aster-Copy.pdf

I'm not sure what the server capability is if multiple people try to download it at the same time.

Cav · 03-08-2012, 17:31

Sovereign citizens are a little nutty, but you can not clump them all in the same boat.

Most are about as sick of Govrernment games as anyone else, and try to go by the laws and powers that our founding fathers saw. Are some a real threat, yes. Is everyone one of them a threat to police, no. A lot has to do with how you deal with them. Some are just there to play games like any other thug without a job and who thinks they know the system.

IMHO treat them as a threat when you deal with them, but use verbal skills to get what you want. Dont let them push your buttons. They should recognize set law enforcement (Sheriff/Deputies).

I feel that our current Government is over stepping its bounds in many areas and are making more people anti-government. Our courts, legal system, governments, laws, law enforcement all bump heads, and some people are fed up with it.

I would treat them like any other person you dont know. I would not try and treat them like a common thug or idiot.

If you deal with a sovereign citizen, call for another unit and record all that happens. Be the better person and keep them in check. Some are nuts and some have a point, just our current system does not work how they want it to.

CJStudent · 03-08-2012, 17:35

Whoops, wrong thread.

DoogieHowser · 03-08-2012, 18:04

Got the thing scanned, it's 2mbs, 23pgs. Shoot me a pm with a e-mail address and something so I can reasonably assume your a LEO.

banjobob · 03-08-2012, 20:07

Maybe a handful of brownshirts and a few billyclubs?

Sharky7 · 03-08-2012, 22:35

Surprised no one has posted this video yet for you...

Sovereign Citizens and Law Enforcement - YouTube

msu_grad_121 · 03-08-2012, 23:33

I have seen that video a few times, but I never really took much away from it. Probably my fault more than anything.

And as soon as I saw the title, I knew we were going to get some "shoe size" responses. Looks like at least 2...and counting?

***TBO*** · 03-08-2012, 23:42

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiw...citizen-leaves