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Old 10-26-2011, 18:45   #1
TexasGlockster
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Hollow Point Info Please

Hey Mas,

So we learn something about our significant others every day. I just learned that my wife is very much against the idea of me keeping a magazine or two loaded of hollow point ammunition ready for home defense. She was previously an analyst for the Justice Department and is now a law student. Her concern is that the police and/or a jury will see hollow point bullets as unnecessary/overkill. When I tried to argue that hollow points were actually safer in a home defense situation for us and our family my reasoning didn't go very far.



Bottom line: Do you know of a good article which supports the use of hollow point ammunition for handguns in home defense situations, preferably comparing it to other forms of ammunition?
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Old 10-26-2011, 20:11   #2
Mas Ayoob
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It's discussed in my book "Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery," 6th edition.

Or, you can just download a few pages of discussion on the topic here at GT in Caliber Corner. There, you should find plenty of ammunition (no pun intended) to explain to her why armed citizens use hollow points for the same reasons as police: to reduce likelihood of over-penetrating bullets striking bystanders, to reduce likelihood of ricochets that might do the same, and to more quickly stop the assailant who is trying to kill people. Since hollow points tend to stop them with fewer shots, the assailants suffer fewer gunshot wounds, and it can thus be argued that the hollow point is even more humane for the violent criminal who forces a good person to shoot him.

best,
Mas
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:54   #3
TexasGlockster
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Back Again...

Hey Mas, I recently bought a copy of your book and its an amazing read! It has really opened up my eyes to a lot tactical situations I had never even considered. The chapter on close quarters combat techniques has led me and a friend of mine to start practicing some of the techniques you suggest at a gym nearby.

I also read your chapter on self-defense ammunition. It was a very interesting survey of the different calibers and how effective they are as self-defense weapons. I didn't quite find the FMJ v. JHP comparison that I was looking for when I asked my previous question. I also asked in caliber corner for some of their thoughts and they reiterated some of your statements. I guess what I'm looking for are concrete examples of situations where either a FMJ was used to the detriment of innocent bystanders, or where JHP was reviewed to be superior to FMJ rounds in self defense situations. Being a lawyer, my wife has access to court cases so that is an option. Any reference material you can of that has real world implications or examples would be great. I'd love to just say to her, "JHP ammo is better, even Mas Ayoob says so," but I don't think that would get very far.

THANKS AGAIN!
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Old 01-30-2012, 15:14   #4
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With a law school grad's research skills, she won't have much trouble looking up the New York Times article some years ago, which reported on shootings of bystanders by NYPD officers back when they were carrying non-hollow-point bullets. Eight were directly hit, FIVE were hit by bullets that initially went through another human body first, and two were struck by bullets that went through objects before nailing the unintended victim.

She being an attorney, you won't need to remind her about the "indifference to human life" aspect that would attach to someone who knew about this problem, ignored it, and wound up in a self-defense shooting in which their FMJ predictably over-penetrated the body of their attacker and struck an innocent.

Might also want to remind her that virtually all of American law enforcement issues JHP, including NYPD since about 1999, in large part to reduce danger to innocents from excessive penetration.

Best,
Mas
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:29   #5
TexasGlockster
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Thanks much Mas.
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Old 02-02-2012, 20:55   #6
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Thanks again Mas. Between your suggestions and Richard's article post from the New York Times in Caliber Corner, my wife has lots of reading. I gave her a stack of them and asked that she read them at her leisure and we could talk about them...20 minutes later we're talking and it was good. She knows she has hang-ups and can't really support them. Her statement: "I want to go to the range and shoot both types of ammo. I think that will help me learn about them."

....sweeeeet.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:05   #7
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Many thanks to RichardB over in Caliber Corner for the link to that NY Times article. http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/09/ny...ted=all&src=pm . If memory serves, it was first posted at Glock Talk years ago by another very helpful member, Broken Arrow.

Good luck to you both, Texas Glockster. All of us here love happy endings.


best,
Mas
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