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Old 01-14-2012, 05:22   #26
ZekerMan
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Ruger LCR with .38+P loaded. Great trigger, light and good ergonomics.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:31   #27
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Ruger LCR with .38+P loaded. Great trigger, light and good ergonomics.
Oh good God. Nevermind, I tried.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:38   #28
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Ok so my girlfriend works night shift as a nurse, and often times has to stop and drop off blood work, tests etc. she expressed to me she would like a pistol to cc. Me being the firearm enthusiast / firm believer in cc took her shopping and me being a glockophile showed her the g26 first she said it was too big. Then the ruler lcp I believe in .380 and she said it was small and asked to see what the ammo looked like. So I showed her and she said " wow that looks like a baby compared to your 10mm. She shoots my g20 just fine so not a huge concern about recoil. But my question does anyone know of a decent semi-auto or hammer less revolver smaller than a g26 that still packs a punch?
A j frame .357?
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:41   #29
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Please, please, please keep in mind what the OP is asking. He has a relatively new shooter, someone that will be new to CCWing, that has had good experiences in the past with autos, who needs good suggestions for their first CCW piece.

If she is going to enjoy shooting, and enjoy it so much she wants to go to the range and shoot often, so that she gets proficient with her CCW piece, we need to give suggestions on a pistol that she will enjoy shooting. Not some nasty recoiling, horrible sight and long trigger pull having, difficult to be accurate with, snubby.

This woman needs to enjoy shooting, she needs to get the satisfaction of actually being able to hit her target with her pistol. If she doesn't enjoy shooting her chosen pistol, she will shoot less and less until she quits, and we will have lost the opportunity to recruit a new shooter into the fold, and she herself will not bring other people to shooting.

Why experienced, 200lb males, that have a lifetime of shooting all different sorts of pistols, that have made the decision to accept the poor shooting characterisics of snubbys because they find them easier to carry, feel it's the right suggestion for new shooters, is beyond me.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:47   #30
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A j frame .357?
Christ, I give in. Sure, a .357MAG snubby is the answer. Hell, might as well get her a .460 Alaskan with a 4" barrel, stuff it in her purse when she's not looking.

I have come to a conclusion, based on this thread. If you want advice in choosing a pistol for a new shooter and CCWer, especialy a female, the absolute worst people to ask advice from are experienced male shoters.

Holy crap, I thought I was stupid about women.

There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:51   #31
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I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there.
Actually, a snub nose revolver is a very good suggestion for certain people. There are a lot of people who want to arm themselves, but refuse to be proficient.....they might shoot it once, or not at all. This is just the cold reality, and we MUST accept it, whether or not we think things should be done differently. Personally, I'd rather these people be armed, and can confront evil with self dignity.......rather than beg for mercy.

Since anyone with half a brain can learn how to operate a snub in about two minutes, it is a very good suggestion for these people. If they ever have to use it, they'll be able to defend themselves.......and, most everyone will be able to shoot one well enough to stop a threat, if not make nice looking groups on paper.

There are some very mild shooting standard 38spl loadings that are just right for these people.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you say......and, my personal choices for ccw are automatics.

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Old 01-14-2012, 06:00   #32
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I was Looking for the wife also I was thinking S&W 629 44 magnum 6"barrel that way she can use it for a walking stick when we are hiking too

Just kidding LC 9 Ruger 9mm w/ lazer is a fine looking pistol, she shoots my G20 10mm and does well with it but we are looking small for her purse. The J frame is nice and all but Semi I think is the way to go. I know many will argue the 9mm and stopping power. Again in a bad situation do not shoot once and see if that works. Keep firing until assailant is on the ground.

Office: Why did you shoot him ten times

answer: I couldn't get another mag in before he hit the ground.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:04   #33
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Originally Posted by shockglock View Post
try a kahr cm9 or pm9. 6+1 of 9mm in a small but controllable package.
this!!!!
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:05   #34
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Christ,
There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.
I read all your RANTS but your are not giving any suggestion so who the hell is calling the kettle Black?
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:16   #35
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Christ, I give in. Sure, a .357MAG snubby is the answer. Hell, might as well get her a .460 Alaskan with a 4" barrel, stuff it in her purse when she's not looking.

I have come to a conclusion, based on this thread. If you want advice in choosing a pistol for a new shooter and CCWer, especialy a female, the absolute worst people to ask advice from are experienced male shoters.

Holy crap, I thought I was stupid about women.

There's two basic rules here.

1. If momma ain't happy, no one's gonna be happy.
2. A snubby ain't gonna make momma happy.

Seems you know very little about:
-Women
-Purse gun operation
-New shooter orientation
-Revolver vs semi-auto reliability
-Revolver ease of use
-Semi-auto slide bind in confined spaces
-Muzzle contact out of battery malfunction


EVERYONE is different! Everyone has different needs, wants & expectations!
However, from the oustide looking in, a revolver is inherently more
reliable than a semi-auto. Easier to load, no safety to forget.

Do some research, talk to some experts, talk to some firearms
instructors about this topic. $100 says 95% of them recommend
a hammerless revolver for a new female shooter whom wishes to
carry "off body"

I've also comt to a conclusion,.....you know VERY little.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:17   #36
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Actually, a snub nose revolver is a very good suggestion for certain people. There are a lot of people who want to arm themselves, but refuse to be proficient.....they might shoot it once, or not at all. This is just the cold reality, and we MUST accept it, whether or not we think things should be done differently. Personally, I'd rather these people be armed, and can confront evil with self dignity.......rather than beg for mercy.

Since anyone with half a brain can learn how to operate a snub in about two minutes, it is a very good suggestion for these people. If they ever have to use it, they'll be able to defend themselves.......and, most everyone will be able to shoot one well enough to stop a threat, if not make nice looking groups on paper.

There are some very mild shooting standard 38spl loadings that are just right for these people.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you say......and, my personal choices for ccw are automatics.

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Right:

And if someone is going to go shooting once a year, there's no way the best suggestion is a nasty recoiling pistol with terrible sights and a horrible, long trigger.

A 9MM LCP, a G19GEN4, and so many other pistols are much, much easier to to shoot accurately, and especially so when training is minimal. But if the main focus is to get a new person into shooting and CCWing, and keep them for a life time, I can think of nothing worse to suggest than a snub nosed .38/.357
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:20   #37
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Right:

And if someone is going to go shooting once a year, there's no way the best suggestion is a nasty recoiling pistol with terrible sights and a horrible, long trigger.


If someone ONLY shoots once a year, he/she will not fair very well
in s life or death situation.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:23   #38
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Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?
I no longer own revolvers but I still like them. It seems the OP and the intended owner both have some experience. If you would like to suggest that the recoil of a small revolver in a large caliber might be a bit much that's fine. But I'm pretty sure referring to folks as idiots isn't helpful
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:26   #39
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Take her to a good gun shop with a large inventory and hopefully with a range and rental guns and let her check some guns out. I'm constantly surprised at the gun an individual women may choose. Often it is not what I would choose but they usually do fine with their chosen pistol. Some women have a problem with racking the slides on semi autos and some have problems with a hammerless revolver. The trigger pull is too heavy for them. I watched a CCW qualification the other day and the women had a XD 9MM, Ruger LCP, and S&W Lady Smith. Three women of different size and age and they all had a different gun. I say let her choose because you are wasting your time picking out a gun for her. Would you let someone decide what gun you should carry?
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:27   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
Seems you know very little about:
-Women
-Purse gun operation
-New shooter orientation
-Revolver vs semi-auto reliability
-Revolver ease of use
-Semi-auto slide bind in confined spaces
-Muzzle contact out of battery malfunction


EVERYONE is different! Everyone has different needs, wants & expectations!
However, from the oustide looking in, a revolver is inherently more
reliable than a semi-auto. Easier to load, no safety to forget.

Do some research, talk to some experts, talk to some firearms
instructors about this topic. $100 says 95% of them recommend
a hammerless revolver for a new female shooter whom wishes to
carry "off body"

I've also comt to a conclusion,.....you know VERY little.
Nope, you're wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong. Firearms instructors are absolutely, positively the wrong people to ask on this topic....which is why about the only thing you are correct about in your post, is that 95% of firearms instructors would recommend a snubby for a new female shooter/ccwer.

I have taught several females to shoot. I have taken females to the range with absolute 0 experience, never even held a firearm, much less shot one. I've had them in the black within a half an hour. And I'm 100% sure that the worst person to ask for suggestions on a pistol are experienced male shooters. 99% of them just push into a new female shooters hands what they think is the right answer.

"Here's a .38/.357 snubby, try it out."

BOOM-miss....BOOM...miss......BOOM......miss.

"Ewww, I don't like that, it hurts to shoot. I'm done."

Yeah, that's the right idea.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:30   #41
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Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

General Firearms Forum

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.
Terrible trigger and a lot of recoil for the caliber.

Go LCR. Light weight, great trigger, reliable. They even have'm with pink grips.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:34   #42
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?
This is a very good point, but sometimes (and you can never tell until a woman grabs the slide) she cant even pull the slide back a little bit. Even with me telling her to push with one hand while pulling with the other. I do try to show them a 4 inch model 10 or something then though..
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:36   #43
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Nope, you're wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong. Firearms instructors are absolutely, positively the wrong people to ask on this topic....which is why about the only thing you are correct about in your post, is that 95% of firearms instructors would recommend a snubby for a new female shooter/ccwer.

I have taught several females to shoot, and I'm 100% sure that the worst person to ask for suggestions on a pistol are experienced male shooters. 99% of them just push into a new female shooters hands what they think is the right answer.

"Here's a .38/.357 snubby, try it out."

BOOM-miss....BOOM...miss......BOOM......miss.

"Ewww, I don't like that, it hurts to shoot. I'm done."

Yeah, that's the right idea.
You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:40   #44
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If someone ONLY shoots once a year, he/she will not fair very well
in s life or death situation.
This is where you are wrong, faawrenchbender.

Some inexperienced firearms owners will defend themselves with wisdom and authority, who never shoot their firearms. Some of them will fair better than others who shoot regularly and have all the "training" and credentials. To make such a "blanket statement", is not very much in tune with humanity.

.....but, to be fair, your statement is very true for a much higher percentage of non-shooters, than those who shoot regularly.

Training and practice is certainly helpful.......but, when it comes right down to the nitty gritty.......it's the character of the individual that makes the difference between doing the necessary under extreme pressure......and failure.

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Old 01-14-2012, 06:48   #45
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Picked up the latest issue of Gun World magazine because it had an article on the S&W M638 in it in 327 Federal Mag., got it more to read about the ctg. then about the gun since these little S&W snubs are uber expensive. Anyway, this little ctg. is a real power house that easily beats out the +P 38 Spl while having less recoil then the 357Mag. IIRC from the 1 7/8" bbl they were getting over 1300 fps and 391 ft/lbs from a 100gr JHP bullet. Bud's has the Taurus snubs at a close out price of $260 bucks and you can get a Charter Arms or Ruger in this great little ctg. too. Also a big plus is that you get 6 shots instead of just the 5 that you'd get in a 38 or 357. Give it a close look and I'm sure you'll like what you see.
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Old 01-14-2012, 06:49   #46
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From what I have been hearing the .380 round is adequate for defense. The LCP loaded with good quality hollow points should get the job done. For a purse gun I believe the LCP is a great contender. As small as the gun is I'm sure a women could conceal it on the body even wearing fitted clothing. J-frames are nice but you have to consider the width of the cylinder.


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Old 01-14-2012, 07:14   #47
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You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you
The Lions?? It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy.

I have to keep this short, because I'm at work and have a very busy day.

I apologise for calling (collectively) males idiots when discussing firearms needs for women, but it's the truth.

I sell kitchens and bathrooms. I'm a kitchen design that sells complete jobs incuding all materials and labor. You can imagine the gender make-up of the clients I work with, who ends up being the decision makers. I have 17 years of professional experience (frustration) in working with women in making very large and detailed purchase decisions. I have learned through years of trials and tribulation, how to work with females of all ages, races, socio and economic backgrounds. I have developed and refined techniques on how to sell females, and it has taken years to get to where I'm at.

The best idea for getting females into shooting is to not try and tell them what they should like, want, use or buy. This is a losing proposition from the get-go....what we in my business call a "non-starter". Spread out before them a selection of different pistols, including autos, revolvers, anything you have or can get your hands on. Lay them out on a table un-loaded, and let them load and fire each one to experience how they are different.

Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to voluntarily choose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop taking our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.

Want to know how bad we men are doing with females and shooting? Look around here....look in this thread. Not a lot of replies/perspectives from the female point of view, are there? Nope, just a bunch of us male idiots giving each other idiotic advice.

Remember how I said I was busy today? I've been working with a 60-something balding, over-weight, post-menopausal woman, whose husband I have not even met, on her 45K bathroom project, and I'm closing it today. You have know idea how much fun it has been working with her.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:20   #48
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Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to chose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop attempting to take our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.
Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:31   #49
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Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver.
You're (awesome) wife liking revolvers is great, but most females won't enjoy a .357MAG/hot .38SPCL loaded snubby. I'm glad to hear you've gotten your wife into shooting.

I'd like to add, that it's actually better to not tell them anything (good & bad points) other than how to load and shoot each pistol, let them ask the questions.

Did you start her off with the 4" compensated Ruger .454 Alaskan?
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:39   #50
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,923
It's obvious that 15T feels very strongly about the snubby thing. A simple try before you buy might be a
good idea OP.
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10mm, concealed carry, glock, ruger, taurus
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42