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Old 01-04-2012, 05:44   #26
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I can see the advantages of them. I say if you wanna get one for your carry piece, do it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:03   #27
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I've used these...

http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Ammo-Sin.../dp/B006HY64MG

Same concept, lower profile....


Quote:
The biggest feature is that the dot allows you to be threat focused, no more blurry target and clear front sight.
All these type of sights as with lasers are merely aids to point shooting.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:15   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Starr View Post
I've used these...

http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Ammo-Sin.../dp/B006HY64MG

Same concept, lower profile....




All these type of sights as with lasers are merely aids to point shooting.
if by same concept you mean they are both sights...agreed...but with red dot sighted pistols as those mentioned prior, you look at the target and the red dot is there not at the sights...I personally think the Trijicon RMR atop a GLOCK or FN (as I have both) is a step up in hitting your target...Good Luck with your choice...

Bill
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:28   #29
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I was waiting for someone with hands on experience with a Glock RMR to respond, but agree that there is no similarity in that one dot sight and a real red dot optic.

I have an old cheap setup on a Ruger 22/45 that I love to play with, and particularly to initiate beginners with. It is so rediculously easy to hit your target with this that beginners do so, and find they like to shoot.

Now that this type of extreme aiming accuracy is available in a rugged and carry-able setup on a Glock, I see real potential for it in a duty/defense role.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:40   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Starr View Post
I've used these...

http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Ammo-Sin.../dp/B006HY64MG

Same concept, lower profile....




All these type of sights as with lasers are merely aids to point shooting.
No sir, you couldn't be more wrong. The RMR is NOT a sight aid to point shooting and anyone thinking it is would be wrong and purchasing an expensive piece of gear that won't do anything of that sort.

First, just to clarify for you in the most simple of terms, point shooting relates to shooting in a manner where you are not actively using your sights but instead are using indexing (either off the slide, body, etc).

The RMR IS A SIGHT and must be used as such. No different than other red dots used on long guns. That being said others have said that in the heat of the moment if you can't get to your sights and you have an RMR equipped pistol you can index using the window as a sort of "tv screen of death".
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:45   #31
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Optic sights are defiantly faster. That is why all open guns run some form of an optic sight. There is a rather large learning curve associated with the transition.

There is actually a term for the problem, it is called the Cmore shuffle. When you are used to a sight that is very low to the slide, they raised optic can wreak havoc with your first shot time until you are used to it.

I am personally struggling with the optic on my Steel Challenge gun. It is actually slowing me down on my Limited division gun with irons. It is not a problem that cannot be overcome, it just takes a lot of practice. The newer mini dots that are actually milled into the slide seem to make the transition easier.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:54   #32
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Indeed the mini's do appear to reduce that issue. Look at the co-witness pics showing the dot sitting right on the front sight using suppressor sights, which are just a little bit taller than normal sights.

(last pic in post #9)
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:38   #33
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Gabe Suarez was recommending them and selling them for a while... So with that kind of endorsement, it's probably not that silly of an idea.

Personally, I like the night site arrangement, and the red dot will be *just a bit* more expensive than the night sites...

Patrick
And he still is, and it's certainly not silly. Gabe's slides are very high quality product.

Just someone else installing them on customer slides is now.
Although some are more 'cost effective' for exactly the same installation than others.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:47   #34
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Indeed the mini's do appear to reduce that issue. Look at the co-witness pics showing the dot sitting right on the front sight using suppressor sights, which are just a little bit taller than normal sights.

(last pic in post #9)
That is why I am thinking about having that done to my SC gun. It is either that, or go back to irons exclusively for all my game guns.
I just can't grasp how some guys will shoot a rimfire with optic in SC and then turn around and shoot a stage with iron sights.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:44   #35
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No sir, you couldn't be more wrong. The RMR is NOT a sight aid to point shooting and anyone thinking it is would be wrong and purchasing an expensive piece of gear that won't do anything of that sort.

First, just to clarify for you in the most simple of terms, point shooting relates to shooting in a manner where you are not actively using your sights but instead are using indexing (either off the slide, body, etc).

The RMR IS A SIGHT and must be used as such. No different than other red dots used on long guns.
Perfectly stated. Lasers do aid point shooting, Jake, but RDS and your T.A.S. sights have nothing to do with point shooting. They may improve your speed (as with point shooting), but they won't help your point shooting.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:55   #36
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they sure will show off (or up) your trigger control...was a wake up call to me, that's for sure...

Bill
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Old 01-04-2012, 18:15   #37
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they sure will show off (or up) your trigger control...was a wake up call to me, that's for sure...

Bill
I assume you are referring to lasers?
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Old 01-04-2012, 18:28   #38
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Genin,

That was a sweet set up on the Glock..if I may ask, what was the process and turn around time to recieve your weapon. Do you purchase the Glock from the company or send your's in for upgrade.

Thanks
Chris
CHL San Antonio
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Old 01-04-2012, 18:31   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyscott69 View Post
I assume you are referring to lasers?
Lasers do this. But, he is referring to Red Dot sights which also show up trigger control issues.
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Old 01-04-2012, 19:24   #40
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Genin,

That was a sweet set up on the Glock..if I may ask, what was the process and turn around time to recieve your weapon. Do you purchase the Glock from the company or send your's in for upgrade.

Thanks
Chris
CHL San Antonio
His is a custom slide made for TSD Combat Systems (Suarez International).
They also sell complete Glock pistols now.

Any factory Glock slide can be milled and have a Trijicon RMR (or other RDS) installed exactly the same way.

Turnaround times vary depending on who is doing the work.
Mine are 7-10 days currently.
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Old 01-04-2012, 20:45   #41
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Genin,

That was a sweet set up on the Glock..if I may ask, what was the process and turn around time to recieve your weapon. Do you purchase the Glock from the company or send your's in for upgrade.

Thanks
Chris
CHL San Antonio
Hey Tac-Safe,
I ordered a RMR Capable G19 slide from OneSourceTactical.com. It is an aftermarket slide they actually produce. It took 2 weeks from placing the order to it arriving at my door. It took that long because I also wanted it custom cerakoted OD green. I'd imagine if you just went the stainless route you'd probably get it within a weeks time at most.

I decided to go with an aftermarket slide because I do not want to alter my original Glock slide and wanted one in OD green. I do plan on ordering a lower receiver when funds allow and then I will have 2 glock 19s, one RMR'd and one Glock stock. Slowly building up my glock collection .
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:50   #42
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Quote:
First, just to clarify for you in the most simple of terms, point shooting relates to shooting in a manner where you are not actively using your sights but instead are using indexing (either off the slide, body, etc).
Agreed.
I do appreciate all your concern over my statement. What I was saying in that the main difference with aimed, sighted fire and point shooting either with regular sights, a simple single dot as in the Laser ammo sight or a reflex sight is the target focus emphasis.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:01   #43
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Oh yes, I get what you mean now.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:20   #44
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Last year I transitioned to a Leupold Delta Point red dot on my daily carry Glock 19. Why? Because my eye sight isn't what it used to be. I can see at distance clearly, but my front sight is blurry. For me a red dot was the way to go. It took about 200 rounds to make the transition. I regularly shoot drills (such as the Todd Green FAST drill) with and without the red dot and am consistently shooting better with the red dot. No concealment issues with my setup. The installation of the red dot was done by David Bowie.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:47   #45
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Here's a picture of my setup. The Delta Point sits in a slot that was milled into the slide. Suppressor height front and rear sights - like the rear mounted in front of the Delta Point. This Delta Point uses an orange "delta", but they do have a model with a red "dot". Delta is co-witnessed with iron sights, but top tip of delta is zeroed for 25 yards. Battery is a C2032 and easy to change.

Attachment 221799

Last edited by wilson45; 11-03-2013 at 06:08..
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Old 01-05-2012, 16:02   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyscott69 View Post
I assume you are referring to lasers?
nope...I was talking about red dot sights...

Bill
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Old 01-05-2012, 17:42   #47
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nope...I was talking about red dot sights...

Bill
Interesting. I can certainly see trigger issues with a laser, but with a cmore or fastfire I have never noticed. Maybe I have perfect trigger control.
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Old 01-06-2012, 18:00   #48
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wilson,
Very nice stippling job on that. Bowie? I can never get used to the irons in front of the RDS, but your pistol looks very nice.

shady,
I can see the dot move if I jerk the trigger, snatch it, etc. Maybe you're flinching and closing your eyes so you don't notice :-P (just playing with you)
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:39   #49
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Quote:
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wilson,
Very nice stippling job on that. Bowie? I can never get used to the irons in front of the RDS, but your pistol looks very nice.

shady,
I can see the dot move if I jerk the trigger, snatch it, etc. Maybe you're flinching and closing your eyes so you don't notice :-P (just playing with you)
exactly...

Bill
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:22   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre! View Post
Gabe Suarez was recommending them and selling them for a while... So with that kind of endorsement, it's probably not that silly of an idea.
If it has Suarez's approval, I tend to run the other way
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