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Old 12-06-2011, 23:38   #121
arushus
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Originally Posted by SolidBrass View Post
I'm sadly wrong. I still don't see a better bear defense round for the 10 mm than the Underwood 180 FMJ. Am I wrong? The total power is better than any other option. Nobody chrono's more power and it should penetrate better than anything else. No?
Personally, I really dont know, and their 180gr fmj would penetrate for days, so it is bound to be effective, but most of what Ive heard from other people is that a hardcast bullet tends to be better because when it encounters bone it will just bust on through as opposed to deflect like the fmj will...
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Old 12-07-2011, 23:20   #122
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Here is a video view of 5 Underwood options. (I left the 180 FMJ 10mm out somehow)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqNyRC3L4U
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Last edited by SolidBrass; 12-07-2011 at 23:21..
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:25   #123
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Well it's so hard to tell. I'm in the E-com business and part of my job is as primary fraud order detector. I've found that US credit card companies and bank are not helpful or proactive AT ALL when it comes to stopping these crimes. In fact, even if they detect the crime, they don't let the retailer know right away to stop the sale/shipment. They do send you 'charge back' paperwork months later that you just lost a bunch of money. I can see what country, bank, IP address, and lots of other info that helps in finding out if the deal is legit or not.

If someone stole your CC number and used my store, I find out by doing some online identity research that this is stolen card and call your bank to tell them they will say, "I'm sorry I cannot do anything as you are not the card holder. "

They don't say it but what is omitted despite argument is, "I will not contact them to ask if this sale is legit"
That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:40   #124
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That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.
Uhmmmm, I hate to point this out to you but PayPal is extremely anti gun. So much so that if your audited and they find your buying ammo thru paypal they will freeze your account. Check out paypalsucks.com

And yes, I use them on limited things. Never for anything "gulp" evilgunevil related.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:19   #125
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Previously I had a bit of trouble with the CC and ordering gun stuff online...I kept getting multiple Fedx charges and some other weird stuff, this occurred mostly with ammo purchases and from several different companies so I don't want to mention any names...(Not Underwood).

I don't think it was the ammo companies, but the vendors they use to process CC cards.

One solution, I reload most everything now, the other was to purchase one of those Walmart cards where you just put a $100 or $200 bucks on it at a time.

It was a real PIA to get a new card and report fraudulent abuse.

PayPal is used only as a last resort, mostly Ebay stuff. Otherwise I avoid it like the plague, not just because of it's anti gun stance as if that weren't enough reason not to do business with them, but because I think it's a lousy system in general, not to mention they're annoying emails about my account.

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Old 12-08-2011, 19:03   #126
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Originally Posted by robert91922 View Post
That's why I buy over internet only when merchant accepts PayPal.
It's much safer, merchant does not see your CC numbers neither they travel through internet lines.
I agree it's safer, but a lot of people screw up ordering that way. Most common is clicking pay at paypal but not waiting to be directed back to the store site to complete the sale. They also take a little more for themselves than credit card companies do. One other bad thing is with paypal you pay right away. If there is a delay (lets say 1 week) you're still charged when you place the order, usually. I to hate how clunky it is but better safe I guess.(my 2cents)

I worked in high end restaurants for years, I'm sure I've personally been handed credit cards by tens of thousands of people over the years. I take the card, walk away with it and come back with one of the little books for you to sign the slip. I could have stolen everyone of the numbers but I never did.

Recently a bunch of waiters and bartenders in NY were arrested for doing just that. A card swiper can fit in your palm and take all your data in less than a second. Hackers have stolen millions of cards that were used at retail store just by hacking there computers. So it's not just online.

Then they sell 100 numbers or what ever to a middleman who sells them online in forums such as this. $5-10 for a working card with billing address account information. Many fraud orders I find have the correct bill to name and address, sometime they even give the real card holders phone number. I personally called hundreds of people to tell them that there credit card has been stolen. I don't have to but I think it's the right thing to do.
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Old 12-12-2011, 17:38   #127
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I am not kidding when I say the Subway workers were I like are all eastern European, (one from Romania) Keep this in mind when you read this story

Romanian hackers charged in Subway sandwich card-swipe scheme

More than 80,000 credit cards hit at over 150 Subway restaurants



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45643520.../#.TuaPk1bntUM
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Old 12-12-2011, 18:48   #128
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Your not going to believe this...I received and activated my new card on the 8th. Used it three times, once to a gunparts store, once to another gun parts store, and once with Underwood. I got a call this morning, a mere 4 days after activation that my card had been hacked again. Unfreakin believible.

I've run every type of virus and malware software on my computer and it comes back clean. Don't get me wrong, I've been hit before. Usually it happens about once a year. Twice in 4 days???? Unheard of. Little pieces of elephant dung. I hope they get a bad case of the crabs, slip in the shower, and break their necks.
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Old 12-12-2011, 18:59   #129
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That ****in' sucks ass, dood.
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Old 12-12-2011, 19:28   #130
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Your not going to believe this...I received and activated my new card on the 8th. Used it three times, once to a gunparts store, once to another gun parts store, and once with Underwood. I got a call this morning, a mere 4 days after activation that my card had been hacked again. Unfreakin believible.

I've run every type of virus and malware software on my computer and it comes back clean. Don't get me wrong, I've been hit before. Usually it happens about once a year. Twice in 4 days???? Unheard of. Little pieces of elephant dung. I hope they get a bad case of the crabs, slip in the shower, and break their necks.
Wow...that's sux. I guess I've been lucky. I have a low limit credit card(I think 2000) that I use for all on line purchases.
<<jim knocks on wood>>><JIM wood on knocks>

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Old 12-12-2011, 20:05   #131
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In hopes of getting this thread back on topic... I plan on shooting some of Underwood's 180gr and 165gr JHP 10mm tomorrow out of my G20 w/ stock barrel. I will also be switching between stock spring and a #22 ISMI on a LW S/S guide rod just to see and feel the difference. Wish me luck in finding my brass.

It will be my first time shooting 10mm (traded for the G20 a couple weeks ago).
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:53   #132
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I just ordered some 200gr xtp and some 165gr jhp from underwood, cant wait to try them out!
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:46   #133
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In hopes of getting this thread back on topic... I plan on shooting some of Underwood's 180gr and 165gr JHP 10mm tomorrow out of my G20 w/ stock barrel. I will also be switching between stock spring and a #22 ISMI on a LW S/S guide rod just to see and feel the difference. Wish me luck in finding my brass.

It will be my first time shooting 10mm (traded for the G20 a couple weeks ago).
If the brass does stay in the same zip code you shoot from and you do find the cases, please also fill us in on any possible smilies and/or flattened primers.

Good Shooting!
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:26   #134
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All these fraudulent charges is ridiculous, I just had some also. I placed an order there early monday morning, and later that day two charges I know I didnt make hit my card, one from a place called fileserve, and one from yahoo flickr. Whatever it is that is causing all of these fraudulent charges, or I should say Whoever iscausing all these charges, it is really frustrating....I know how all of you feel!
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:35   #135
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Not long after ordering my last batch of Underwood ammo, I too was a victim of fraudulent cc charges from overseas. I see a pattern here and don't think it's a coincidence. I suspect Underwood's website is not secure. We need to bring this to Kevin's attention.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:21   #136
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Not long after ordering my last batch of Underwood ammo, I too was a victim of fraudulent cc charges from overseas. I see a pattern here and don't think it's a coincidence. I suspect Underwood's website is not secure. We need to bring this to Kevin's attention.
Kevin is aware and is checking with his web designer as I write this.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:38   #137
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That's really too bad, as if small business owners didn't have enough to deal with...I went through this with another small ammo company, (not Underwood) my card was "hacked" two-three times.

My bank covered me, but still a PIA.
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Old 12-13-2011, 17:45   #138
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If the brass does stay in the same zip code you shoot from and you do find the cases, please also fill us in on any possible smilies and/or flattened primers.

Good Shooting!
Today was a great day for shooting.... above freezing and no wind. I was able to find all 85 empties out of 85 rounds shot (saving the last 15 rounds for emergencies). The 10mm full power round is very impressive and is teaching me I need more work on my grip. I had couple brass eject to the left and one failure to eject during a mag dump that tore the brass lip but I chalk those up to not keeping a proper hold on the gun. After looking at all the empties I had a lot of glock smiles but also a few that didn't have a smile at all. I kept the #22 spring in the gun after 1 shot with the stock spring (that one round did not have a smile). The primers on all rounds were intact and looked normal.

Here are a couple pics...this is a G20 Gen3 with stock barrel. The brass pictured below were typical of the rest of the brass save a few that did not have a smile but slight bulges that one would expect with stock barrel.

The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring

Accuracy was all over the place as I was freehand firing with a new (to me) gun and I am still getting used to the 10mm round & non-SF frame (or I'm just a terrible shot).
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Old 12-13-2011, 18:54   #139
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I couldnt tell you for sure if that brass is reloadable or not, hopefully somebody who reloads will chime in as far as that goes...it might besome good practice for your accuracy if you get a .40sw conversion barrel and practice with .40cal, since it is a little more tame.
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Old 12-13-2011, 19:12   #140
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