[awdxtc]

Originally Posted by 10 fan

My edc ammo is DT 180gr. bonded defence at 1305fps. Draw from IWB and a shoot controlled under time pressure I dought if most could find or feel the difference including POI,bullet rise or drop ,recoil control,target aquisition on second shot.

Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.

[post-apocalyptic]

Originally Posted by awdxtc

Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.

It depends on when he bought it.. sadly.

[awdxtc]

As far as if there is anything cheaper...georgia arms has some for like 17.50/50 or if you reload you can make it even cheaper

[inspectorjj]

Originally Posted by 10 fan

My edc ammo is DT 180gr. bonded defence at 1305fps. Draw from IWB and a shoot controlled under time pressure I dought if most could find or feel the difference including POI,bullet rise or drop ,recoil control,target aquisition on second shot.

Well, like I said, I'm just a crusty old dude and it is only my opinion. I just don't believe that Major League Baseball players should have batting practice with whiffle balls. I believe that if you are going to "practice" at saving your life or someone else's life, it would make sense to use the same exact identical tools that you plan to use in a life saving event.
Also with the proven inadequacies printed on Double Taps boxes concerning velocity, I can see why you think there is no difference in felt recoil from the cheaper ammo. Everyone has an opinion, and I respect yours. I just don't see the logic or common sense in it from my limited point of view.

[Angry Fist]

Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it.

[post-apocalyptic]

Originally Posted by Angry Fist

Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it.

Ah, shaddup you sig-line stealin biotch.

[saspic]

Originally Posted by Angry Fist

Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it.

Mike Willard died about three weeks ago. The ammo, unfortunately, will not be coming.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1382856

And post-apocalyptic, GLOCK TALK doesn't really like profanity, even the misspelled variety.

[4949shooter]

Originally Posted by rcd567

I am! Brass came out fine. I did buy a Lone Wolf barrel and will test that with them too. My Glock barrel leaves a pretty good size bulge in all cases I shoot out of it. The Underwoods were no different. Since I reload some too, I wanted a tighter chamber so the brass would last longer. There were no smilies in any of the cases from Underwood.

Also not sure about custom loading Gold Dots since they already have the 165 gr. Golden Saber round.

I need to order some more and might throw in some 180 or 200 if they get them done in time so I can shoot a deer with it.

Originally Posted by post-apocalyptic

I've run more than a few 165gr JHP Underwood 10mm rnds through both my stock '20 barrel and my 6" Glock Hunter. All functioned flawlessly and only some of the fired casings have any discernable hint of a "Glock smile". On those casings; the "smiles" are barely visible, not easily photographed, and have little to no effect on reloadablility... i.e. the 165gr JHP Underwood rnds are loaded to the original full-power, (or full house), 10mm specs, as all Underwood 10mm rnds are.

They're currently my favorite rnd to shoot, (I won't get my 135gr nosler JHP Underwood rnds till Friday ), very versatile and extremely damaging to anything they're fired at... although the best rnd, (of the various factory 10mm I've fired), for turning cover into concealment is Underwood's 180gr FMJ, (>1300 fps)!

Thanks guys..

[rcd567]

Originally Posted by Angry Fist

Fan-friggin-tastic! Swampfox dropped off the face of the earth, and damn near a month later, I still ain't got my ammo. Pretty much saw deer season go to **** over it.

Since he died I'm not sure anyone waiting for orders or refunds will get them. You actually might try a snail mail letter as the person handling his affairs may not have access to his computer email.

Trusting your hard earned dollars to a small ammo maker does have some risks. BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?

[arushus]

Originally Posted by rcd567

Since he died I'm not sure anyone waiting for orders or refunds will get them. You actually might try a snail mail letter as the person handling his affairs may not have access to his computer email.

Trusting your hard earned dollars to a small ammo maker does have some risks. BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?

Good question!

When is the last time you had an ECG? How about a heart stress test? You taking your vitamins? Gotta stay healthy kevin!

[kjunderwood]

Originally Posted by rcd567

BTW Kevin (Underwood), how have you been feeling lately?

Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to lose 15-20lbs...but other than that, I think I'm doing alright. I'll keep you posted.

[post-apocalyptic]

Looks like the 200gr XTPs are now available on the website: 40 units in stock, (as of now).

[SolidBrass]

Originally Posted by post-apocalyptic

Looks like the 200gr XTPs are now available on the website: 40 units in stock, (as of now).

You are on the ball for sure! I check the site last night and it was still back ordered.

I just placed an order for some 200gn and 130gn (and saved on shipping since they will now ship together instead of being backorder and shipped separate)

Now if only Lonewolf would get the stock length and 1/2" over G20 barrels back in stock. (they keep backing up the date)

[Angry Fist]

Originally Posted by saspic

Mike Willard died about three weeks ago. The ammo, unfortunately, will not be coming.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1382856

And post-apocalyptic, GLOCK TALK doesn't really like profanity, even the misspelled variety.

Wow, I didn't know that. That really sucks, losing a serious contributor to the 10MM community. I ain't worried. It's only a few bucks.

That is a killer sigline. PA, send me a box of Swampfox, and I'll let ya have it back!

[post-apocalyptic]

Originally Posted by Angry Fist

...That is a killer sigline. PA, send me a box of Swampfox, and I'll let ya have it back!

I waited what turned out to be too long, (RIP M. Willard), so I never got any Swampfox 10mm. I do have some Underwood though, and I'll be glad to give ya a few rnds real fast, from ~50 yds away.

[10 fan]

Originally Posted by awdxtc

Are you sure that double tap isn't more like 1100 fps...just sayin.

I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by 10 fan

I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

YouTube...it is true. Has been for years now.

[10 fan]

Originally Posted by awdxtc

As far as if there is anything cheaper...georgia arms has some for like 17.50/50 or if you reload you can make it even cheaper

Same price as BVAC but 1100fps,the 1200 from BVAC is closer to my edc ammo. Thanks

[arushus]

Originally Posted by 10 fan

I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

check out the 10mm auto facebook page, or look up 10mm chronograph on youtube, a guy on there has chronographed nearly every 10mm load there is. He's also got a compilation of all the loads he tested put together in a spreadsheet...there's your proof!

[wkoukios]

I was a long time user till I was able to chronograph the ammo myself. Its way under what they claim. I tested 3 of the 10mm offerings, In specifics, I tested the 200 gr WFNGC that DT state will do 1300 fps from stock G20. I averaged 1060 fps 3 rounds were 1040 fps. I emailed the company to ask why and received no reply to several emails. I shot Buffalo Bore and some hand loads that same sesion that all recorded normal numbers. This verified that they LIE and no it!
I now use Buffalo bore or my own hand loads. I will not do another transaction of any kind with Double Tap. I even bought some components to hand load and found them to be wanting in quality. Beartooth makes better hard cast bullets so they have my money now!
Why am I angry, I bought 10mm hard cast ammo designed to defend against animals in the woods. They are advertised at a 10mm specific power capability yet offer 40 s&w power levels. 200gr at 1300fps is 750ft lbs. Move the velocity to 1060 and the energy drops to 499! This is more then just embellishing on the numbers! Glad I am loading my own now. I despise dishonest people that take my money with deception!

[dryfly]

Yeah... My opinion is that Mr. McNett should get as many Africa hunts in now as possile because one of these days someone will find a smart enough and willing enough lawyer to cause him some well earned grief.

[Sierra9]

Originally Posted by 10 fan

I don't have a crono(on my list wish list) I can only go by the add. and the way it feels. I have federal 1060fps,miwall 1040, bvac 1200, dt 1250, dt 1305, all 180gr. and the bonded defense is not 1100. I have heard many people say DT is not what it says it is.Never seen or heard of a real test or proof ,just people saying it. If it were true I would be the first to switch.

I used to buy a lot of DT and at one time or another have chronographed most of the 10mm offerings. None have come within 200 fps of advertised. I once asked McNett face to face to respond to his critics on GT. His response was that he was busy enough that it wasn't worth it.

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by wkoukios

I was a long time user till I was able to chronograph the ammo myself. Its way under what they claim. I tested 3 of the 10mm offerings, In specifics, I tested the 200 gr WFNGC that DT state will do 1300 fps from stock G20. I averaged 1060 fps 3 rounds were 1040 fps. I emailed the company to ask why and received no reply to several emails. I shot Buffalo Bore and some hand loads that same sesion that all recorded normal numbers. This verified that they LIE and no it!
I now use Buffalo bore or my own hand loads. I will not do another transaction of any kind with Double Tap. I even bought some components to hand load and found them to be wanting in quality. Beartooth makes better hard cast bullets so they have my money now!
Why am I angry, I bought 10mm hard cast ammo designed to defend against animals in the woods. They are advertised at a 10mm specific power capability yet offer 40 s&w power levels. 200gr at 1300fps is 750ft lbs. Move the velocity to 1060 and the energy drops to 499! This is more then just embellishing on the numbers! Glad I am loading my own now. I despise dishonest people that take my money with deception!

AMEN.

With the Beartooth bullets; Have you noticed weight variances bullet to bullet or do they seem relatively same-same?

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by Sierra9

I used to buy a lot of DT and at one time or another have chronographed most of the 10mm offerings. None have come within 200 fps of advertised. I once asked McNett face to face to respond to his critics on GT. His response was that he was busy enough that it wasn't worth it.

Dang!, I already was very unhappy with them. Now I'm more unhappy but try to stay away from pure hatred. Where does that leave me?

[SolidBrass]

Originally Posted by glock20c10mm

YouTube...it is true. Has been for years now.

I've watched a lot of those video.

Almost everyband overstates there velocity (when shot out of a Glock 20)

I only know of two that match or beat what they claim: Underwood, and Swampfox.

Those that doen't include:
BVAC
Double Tap
Buffalo Bore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxNwSjPnTE