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Old 08-21-2011, 17:42   #21
Black Smoke Trail
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I have to agree with you Sam. Great points. The national epidemic of hoplophobia is a very sad fact of life those who choose to carry must take into account. Whenever you can carry in a manner that no one even suspects or even has a passing thought about it, this is to your advantage and benefit.
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Old 08-21-2011, 18:07   #22
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This is an awesome thread.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:16   #23
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I live in an area that has a lot of military as well as civilian folks. That being said, in my area, being grey isn't that difficult.

Go to my home town, however, and the same behavior will get noticed, and LEO (small town, and there's only three cops) will come pay you a visit. Not to be jerks, mind you, but just to make sure that you're feeling OK.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:16   #24
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Personally I like to play the bad guy game. I assume the roll of a bad guy and as I enter and exit places and situations I take note of the people and their actions. From my bad guy standpoint I observe to see who is constantly and somewhat obviously scanning the room. Who sits facing exits and what not and say okay I would shoot them first. I then try not to do some of the things that my "marks" do that make them stand out to me.

Last edited by whoops dude; 08-21-2011 at 19:17..
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:19   #25
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Personally I like to play the bad guy game. I assume the roll of a bad guy and as I enter and exit places and situations I take note of the people and their actions. From my bad guy standpoint I observe to see who is constantly and somewhat obviously scanning the room. Who sits facing exits and what not and say okay I would shoot them first. I then try not to do some of the things that my "marks" do that make them stand out to me.
For some reason I doubt many BGs are going to just start shooting everybody that happens to be seated facing an exit.

But that is an interesting idea.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:27   #26
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An interesting twist on the gray man concept I think would be the 'gray couple'.

My wife is such a sweetheart and everyone that meets her loves her. Sales people even. So while attention might be drawn our way by my wife's smile and outgoing manner, I'm in the background checking things out. It's quite effective actually.

Couples appear less threatening than a man by himself as well.

Not sure about the 'gray woman'. I think it might be more difficult for a woman to blend in than a man giving our cultures focus on a woman always looking her best.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:34   #27
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To me, one of the biggest give aways for a carrier are the obnoxious metal or plastic clips on an IWB holster.

I had a salesman come into my office(granite company) last week and I literally saw the CBST clips from the parking lot looking out my window. I just chuckled.
You only see this because you are already aware. I wear a CBST everyday around the same people daily. Only 1 person out of 35 had every noticed the clips. And she had been researching holsters.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:37   #28
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Can you spot Loss Prevention at WalMart?
The loss prevention/secret shoppers at Costco and Walmart are the absolute worst at hiding what they are doing.

I don't have any gun tshirts, I don't own anything made by 5.11 and am surprised that anyone but the police would, and the only boots I own are steel toed Danners from my heavy construction days. I do the people watching thing, not just for hawt babes, but I typically try to pick out guys/gals that might be carrying. Sam is right, you'd be surprised what you are able to pick up on when you are actually looking for it.

We saw a woman walking to her car from the movie theater, hand inside the pocket of her purse, the other hand gripping the fob with her thumb on the panic button, continually looking left to right. The only assumption my wife and I could make was that she was either very new to carrying, or has been a victim of a crime and her fear is causing her to make herself obvious as to what she is holding onto inside of her purse.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:43   #29
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Good thread, Sam. I practice the KIIM game often.

The gray concept is interesting in certain situations that are often discussed in the S&P section too. I've been giving more consideration to FerFAL's recommendations after enduring economic collapse in S. America. There's something to be said for moving through a crowd and drawing less attention to yourself in those situations as well.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:44   #30
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For some reason I doubt many BGs are going to just start shooting everybody that happens to be seated facing an exit.

But that is an interesting idea.
That is completely true but In a real life situation are you going to dive to the floor with everyone else, or stay in bad guy's field of vision while drawing or attempting to draw your weapon whether it be by remaining seated or standing?
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:52   #31
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In my home state I have had my Permit To Carry since 1989. I also have a Florida non-resident permit and while on a temporary job assignment I had a CCW permit in Tennessee for two years. So, CCW is not foreign to me and up until about 5 years ago it was something that was just second nature. I was forced into retirement because of an illness that turned into a disability that prevented me from working. Additionally, it became very uncomfortable to carry anything in my pockets or on my belt. So, ever since retirement began I have been carrying a “man-purse” with my G27 inside. I don’t think many people give me a second look once they see me walking with a cane. I have stood in line at Walmart and a couple of the local grocery stores next to or in front of uniformed LEO’s and they have never acted like they notice anything. The case looks like a small laptop computer case which I think helps a lot. As I look around while out in public I see many people carrying messenger bags and the like so I think men with bags are becoming not a very big deal.

Great thread! Very interesting and informative.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:59   #32
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You only see this because you are already aware. I wear a CBST everyday around the same people daily. Only 1 person out of 35 had every noticed the clips. And she had been researching holsters.
Don't get me wrong. We make holsters with clips too, but only on request. IMO, they are a poor substitute for actually making the proper attachment to the belt.

The CB clips would be less obvious if they would lose the crosses, and try to "finish match" the clips to normal belt finishes. What gets me more than the CBST is some of the cheaper holsters that use clips that the finish rubs off to shiny metal in short order. Those really stand out.
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:11   #33
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Oh of course another dead give-a-way is camo clothing whether it be shirt, cargo shorts or full on bdu's. People definitely notice you more with camo of any type on as I have experimented with this on numerous occasions.

Last edited by whoops dude; 08-21-2011 at 20:11..
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:15   #34
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I don't own anything made by 5.11 and am surprised that anyone but the police would
Police aren't the only ones who wear boots.
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:16   #35
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That is completely true but In a real life situation are you going to dive to the floor with everyone else, or stay in bad guy's field of vision while drawing or attempting to draw your weapon whether it be by remaining seated or standing?
I'm probably taking cover. FAST
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:35   #36
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Common body movements and indicators that give you away;

Adjusting the gun as you get out of the car

Checking the gun when you step up or down off of a curb

Using your elbow to constantly check the gun is still there (a newbie trait)

Pants dangling low on one side

Having to hold your pants up if moving at any pace quicker than a walk (common in the hood)

Heavy swing to the leg with the ankle holster on it as you walk
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Old 08-21-2011, 21:21   #37
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Police aren't the only ones who wear boots.
Yes, but I'm also referring to the tacticool cargo pants with 147 pockets and the tacticool polo shirts.
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Old 08-21-2011, 21:48   #38
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Yes, but I'm also referring to the tacticool cargo pants with 147 pockets and the tacticool polo shirts.
Some points:

-I wear them because my old job ate up my Dockers but I had to wear something that looked like khakis. The ripstop fabric simply holds up better.
-I'm not really too concerned if a cop or observant citizen "makes" me. I don't carry where I'm not supposed to.
-I really doubt that the random BG is paying close enough attention to notice if I'm wearing "tactical" cargos vs. the Old Navy cargos the guy next to me is wearing.
-I live in a blue-collar area. Cargo pants, camo-patterns, and hunting/firearm related clothing is very common. Every other truck has an at least an NRA sticker, usually some additional sticker like Bone Hunter or what have you.
-I would say that 60%-75% of adult males in my area have a pocket knife or multi-tool. The clip attracts zero notice.

Local culture is important. Where I live, I am doing the "Grey Man" thing.
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Old 08-21-2011, 22:03   #39
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Some points:

-I wear them because my old job ate up my Dockers but I had to wear something that looked like khakis. The ripstop fabric simply holds up better.
-I'm not really too concerned if a cop or observant citizen "makes" me. I don't carry where I'm not supposed to.
-I really doubt that the random BG is paying close enough attention to notice if I'm wearing "tactical" cargos vs. the Old Navy cargos the guy next to me is wearing.
-I live in a blue-collar area. Cargo pants, camo-patterns, and hunting/firearm related clothing is very common. Every other truck has an at least an NRA sticker, usually some additional sticker like Bone Hunter or what have you.
-I would say that 60%-75% of adult males in my area have a pocket knife or multi-tool. The clip attracts zero notice.

Local culture is important. Where I live, I am doing the "Grey Man" thing.
Lots of dudes wear skinny jeans in some of the towns and cities I frequent, doesn't mean I'm gonna wear em to blend in. If the 5.11 pants serve a purpose for you, by all means wear them.
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Old 08-21-2011, 22:07   #40
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Yeah, guess I should quit wearing my Colt t-shirt when I carry....especially since I carry a S&W.
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