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Old 08-21-2011, 19:27   #26
UtahIrishman
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An interesting twist on the gray man concept I think would be the 'gray couple'.

My wife is such a sweetheart and everyone that meets her loves her. Sales people even. So while attention might be drawn our way by my wife's smile and outgoing manner, I'm in the background checking things out. It's quite effective actually.

Couples appear less threatening than a man by himself as well.

Not sure about the 'gray woman'. I think it might be more difficult for a woman to blend in than a man giving our cultures focus on a woman always looking her best.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:34   #27
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To me, one of the biggest give aways for a carrier are the obnoxious metal or plastic clips on an IWB holster.

I had a salesman come into my office(granite company) last week and I literally saw the CBST clips from the parking lot looking out my window. I just chuckled.
You only see this because you are already aware. I wear a CBST everyday around the same people daily. Only 1 person out of 35 had every noticed the clips. And she had been researching holsters.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:37   #28
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Can you spot Loss Prevention at WalMart?
The loss prevention/secret shoppers at Costco and Walmart are the absolute worst at hiding what they are doing.

I don't have any gun tshirts, I don't own anything made by 5.11 and am surprised that anyone but the police would, and the only boots I own are steel toed Danners from my heavy construction days. I do the people watching thing, not just for hawt babes, but I typically try to pick out guys/gals that might be carrying. Sam is right, you'd be surprised what you are able to pick up on when you are actually looking for it.

We saw a woman walking to her car from the movie theater, hand inside the pocket of her purse, the other hand gripping the fob with her thumb on the panic button, continually looking left to right. The only assumption my wife and I could make was that she was either very new to carrying, or has been a victim of a crime and her fear is causing her to make herself obvious as to what she is holding onto inside of her purse.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:43   #29
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Good thread, Sam. I practice the KIIM game often.

The gray concept is interesting in certain situations that are often discussed in the S&P section too. I've been giving more consideration to FerFAL's recommendations after enduring economic collapse in S. America. There's something to be said for moving through a crowd and drawing less attention to yourself in those situations as well.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:44   #30
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For some reason I doubt many BGs are going to just start shooting everybody that happens to be seated facing an exit.

But that is an interesting idea.
That is completely true but In a real life situation are you going to dive to the floor with everyone else, or stay in bad guy's field of vision while drawing or attempting to draw your weapon whether it be by remaining seated or standing?
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:52   #31
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In my home state I have had my Permit To Carry since 1989. I also have a Florida non-resident permit and while on a temporary job assignment I had a CCW permit in Tennessee for two years. So, CCW is not foreign to me and up until about 5 years ago it was something that was just second nature. I was forced into retirement because of an illness that turned into a disability that prevented me from working. Additionally, it became very uncomfortable to carry anything in my pockets or on my belt. So, ever since retirement began I have been carrying a “man-purse” with my G27 inside. I don’t think many people give me a second look once they see me walking with a cane. I have stood in line at Walmart and a couple of the local grocery stores next to or in front of uniformed LEO’s and they have never acted like they notice anything. The case looks like a small laptop computer case which I think helps a lot. As I look around while out in public I see many people carrying messenger bags and the like so I think men with bags are becoming not a very big deal.

Great thread! Very interesting and informative.
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Old 08-21-2011, 19:59   #32
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You only see this because you are already aware. I wear a CBST everyday around the same people daily. Only 1 person out of 35 had every noticed the clips. And she had been researching holsters.
Don't get me wrong. We make holsters with clips too, but only on request. IMO, they are a poor substitute for actually making the proper attachment to the belt.

The CB clips would be less obvious if they would lose the crosses, and try to "finish match" the clips to normal belt finishes. What gets me more than the CBST is some of the cheaper holsters that use clips that the finish rubs off to shiny metal in short order. Those really stand out.
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:11   #33
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Oh of course another dead give-a-way is camo clothing whether it be shirt, cargo shorts or full on bdu's. People definitely notice you more with camo of any type on as I have experimented with this on numerous occasions.

Last edited by whoops dude; 08-21-2011 at 20:11..
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:15   #34
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I don't own anything made by 5.11 and am surprised that anyone but the police would
Police aren't the only ones who wear boots.
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:16   #35
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That is completely true but In a real life situation are you going to dive to the floor with everyone else, or stay in bad guy's field of vision while drawing or attempting to draw your weapon whether it be by remaining seated or standing?
I'm probably taking cover. FAST
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Old 08-21-2011, 20:35   #36
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Common body movements and indicators that give you away;

Adjusting the gun as you get out of the car

Checking the gun when you step up or down off of a curb

Using your elbow to constantly check the gun is still there (a newbie trait)

Pants dangling low on one side

Having to hold your pants up if moving at any pace quicker than a walk (common in the hood)

Heavy swing to the leg with the ankle holster on it as you walk
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Old 08-21-2011, 21:21   #37
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Police aren't the only ones who wear boots.
Yes, but I'm also referring to the tacticool cargo pants with 147 pockets and the tacticool polo shirts.
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Old 08-21-2011, 21:48   #38
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Yes, but I'm also referring to the tacticool cargo pants with 147 pockets and the tacticool polo shirts.
Some points:

-I wear them because my old job ate up my Dockers but I had to wear something that looked like khakis. The ripstop fabric simply holds up better.
-I'm not really too concerned if a cop or observant citizen "makes" me. I don't carry where I'm not supposed to.
-I really doubt that the random BG is paying close enough attention to notice if I'm wearing "tactical" cargos vs. the Old Navy cargos the guy next to me is wearing.
-I live in a blue-collar area. Cargo pants, camo-patterns, and hunting/firearm related clothing is very common. Every other truck has an at least an NRA sticker, usually some additional sticker like Bone Hunter or what have you.
-I would say that 60%-75% of adult males in my area have a pocket knife or multi-tool. The clip attracts zero notice.

Local culture is important. Where I live, I am doing the "Grey Man" thing.
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Old 08-21-2011, 22:03   #39
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Some points:

-I wear them because my old job ate up my Dockers but I had to wear something that looked like khakis. The ripstop fabric simply holds up better.
-I'm not really too concerned if a cop or observant citizen "makes" me. I don't carry where I'm not supposed to.
-I really doubt that the random BG is paying close enough attention to notice if I'm wearing "tactical" cargos vs. the Old Navy cargos the guy next to me is wearing.
-I live in a blue-collar area. Cargo pants, camo-patterns, and hunting/firearm related clothing is very common. Every other truck has an at least an NRA sticker, usually some additional sticker like Bone Hunter or what have you.
-I would say that 60%-75% of adult males in my area have a pocket knife or multi-tool. The clip attracts zero notice.

Local culture is important. Where I live, I am doing the "Grey Man" thing.
Lots of dudes wear skinny jeans in some of the towns and cities I frequent, doesn't mean I'm gonna wear em to blend in. If the 5.11 pants serve a purpose for you, by all means wear them.
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Old 08-21-2011, 22:07   #40
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Yeah, guess I should quit wearing my Colt t-shirt when I carry....especially since I carry a S&W.
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Old 08-21-2011, 22:20   #41
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There is a skill to scanning for trouble. The secret is, don't look and act like you have a secret. Watch what people in Condition White do. Do the same thing, only be in a heightened level of situational awareness.
Criminals very often make their mark based off the actions of their target. I wouldn't say that being balls out tactical is the right way to roll, but mimicking someone who is clueless isn't the right move either.

Walking upright, having a purpose to what you do and generally being confident and aware are all traits that can significantly decrease the chance of a need to defend yourself in the first place.

I understand the thread is about how not to be made, but purposely mimicking a person in condition white, where the only person who knows you have a clue what is going on around you, is you (mimic but be in a heightened level) is going a bit far in my opinion.
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Old 08-22-2011, 00:25   #42
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Yeah, guess I should quit wearing my Colt t-shirt when I carry....especially since I carry a S&W.
Yes you should. No amount of training, range time, and situational awareness will be able to stop the hail of gunfire headed your direction if someone figures out its a Smith in your waist band while falsely advertising it as a Colt.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:17   #43
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Wait, so why is it so extremely wrong to not be perfectly "grey"? From reading this thread, it sounds like some sort of capital sin or something really really bad.

I'm 5'6, about 140lbs and I carry a G.20SF IWB 24/7. If I'm not at work, then I'm carrying. Now, it doesn't really print too terribly bad but if one of you hawk eyes saw me you would definitely know I'm carrying. But, why should I give a dang? 99.9% of the people out there do not notice and those who do, well, if it bothers you then feel free to buy me a pocket pistol or whatever kind of gear you consider I should have in order to conceal "properly" 'cause I sure as heck can't afford it and refuse to leave my home without my 'life insurance' just because some nosy stranger might feel uncomfortable around me. I don't live in TX or any state that punishes people for being 'made' and most people in this area are pretty gun friendly. Heck, even my wife's therapist talks about guns with us! So what's the big deal?

Anyway why did you arrest that guy Spade? What was he doing?
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:44   #44
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-Pause thread-

Man from Ohio says he's not from a bad, gun unfriendly state like Texas.

-Unpause thread-
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:55   #45
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-Pause thread-

Man from Ohio says he's not from a bad, gun unfriendly state like Texas.

-Unpause thread-

He'd be correct in some instances. Mainly the one he pointed out.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:10   #46
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Well DANG!

I wear BDU's because they are the most comfortable and useful pants for me.

I wear a Wilderness belt because it's a great belt.

I carry a clip knife in my right front pocket and a flashlight in a holder on my belt because I use them every day.

I wear whatever color shirt I feel like wearing that day. And if it happens to say something political or is gun-related? This is America.

And if you're a cop, and you see the outline of my gun in my pocket? I couldn't care less. I'm a responsible, law-abiding citizen of the State of Florida, and my right to dress the way I want while carrying a concealed weapon is protected.

I'll walk right past a cop, look him in the eye, and smile. He won't stop me, even if my apparel, attitude, and bulge in my pocket scream "WEAPON!" And if he does, it'll just be a waste of his time and mine.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:37   #47
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Look, I really don't care what y'all wear or how you act.

The purpose of the thread was to address one of the fallacies of CCW: the whole "concealed means concealed" isn't really happening and it actually relies on people's inattention and not your concealment. If you don't care, fine. The thread's not for you, and you can keep doing what you're doing.

OTOH, if you think you might actually want or need to carry concealed, or ditch the target indicators that invite increased scrutiny of you in particular, then that's different, isn't it?
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:48   #48
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I agree with doing whatever you can to make youself blend into the crowd. Where i live button up shop shirts are very popular and the will cover a large gun with no problem without drawing attention. But i think that it should continue over in everything you do, it doesn't help to blend in with your clothing when you go get in you truck with that big "protected by glock" sticker on you back window. Just my .02
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:09   #49
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"Piece Petting is an obvious give away that I notice most often. Also hiking up a loose belt. I've made a lot of ccw's that way.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:23   #50
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Well DANG!...it'll just be a waste of his time and mine.
Well, then, this thread is not for you.

This thread is for those who do care about being recognized as carrying a firearm and want tips and instruction on how best to achieve the "gray profile" we're discussing.

Thanks for the input.
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