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Old 06-26-2011, 17:59   #21
_The_Shadow
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I had just discussed this with WhenMonkeysFly in a PM.

This is what I sent to him;
Quote:
I understand what you are trying to do with the S&W 610 but...
The 41 & 44 magnum is based on the average maximum pressure of 36,000 psi.
BTW I own and shoot the S&W Mod. 29 44mag with an 8 3/8" barrel. My first loads were with IMR4227 "book load", split all cases...Gun was fine!

The 10mm Auto is 37,500psi and we are pushing its limits pretty hard as it is!
That being said, the longer barrel of 6 1/2" will provide better velocities overall. The 610's also lack the dynamics of blowback action and the semi autos include the chamber as part of their overall lenght.

The weakest part of the revolver is the cylinder walls and the gap between the cylinder to forcing cone of the barrels will affect performance some.

Those that cut the chambers to allow the 10mm magnum cartridge are working to a max of 39,000psi whereas the IAI(IriwnDale Arms Inc.)(gas operated) guns were working to 42,000psi. See the data over at Accurate Arms for the 10mm Magnum.

The data is also based on 8" barreled guns, the longer case capacity allows lower pressures while using more powder and the yield is not as impressive as you would think over that of the standard 10mmAuto while staying with in the proper pressure limits.

The advantage is that you could use slow burning powders like 2400, IMR4227, H-110, Win 296 - which would take advantage of the longer barrel with lower pressure. But these require good crimps in cannelures on the bullet, therefore the head spacing might change and the use of the "moon clips" would help with this type loading.
He wishes to just run 10mmAuto, hot to obtain his best ballistic performance...my concern is not having the rounds developed in the 610 windup in the semiauto pistol.
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Old 06-26-2011, 20:06   #22
THE PUNISHER
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Sweet wheel guns!
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:56   #23
leadslinger13
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nice set. you got them both as a set? sweet!!!! i would like to pick up one of these or the ruger blackhawk convertible. they seem to be hard to come find.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:26   #24
whenmonkeysfly
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nice set. you got them both as a set? sweet!!!! i would like to pick up one of these or the ruger blackhawk convertible. they seem to be hard to come find.
Bought them both at around the same time. Both were made in 1990 and considered first run... well before Smith & Wesson started putting those funky key locks on their guns. They are a hoot to shoot! Both 10mm and 40S&W. I'm researching/experimenting with some nuclear 10mm loadings now (safely, of course). To be continued.....

Good old heavy revolvers are getting harder to find and definitely more expensive than in years past.
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Old 06-27-2011, 16:14   #25
agtman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
I had just discussed this with WhenMonkeysFly in a PM.

This is what I sent to him;

He wishes to just run 10mmAuto, hot to obtain his best ballistic performance... my concern is not having the rounds developed in the 610 windup in the semiauto pistol.
Well, back when I was playing around with hot stuff in my 610, I found you could increase velocity significantly with much more pressure by long-loading the projectile beyond the 1.260 COAL restriction in a 10mm autoloader. Since these were special loads for my 610 only, I used NICKLE brass to distinguish them from the reloads (using the goldish brass) for my autos.

Long time ago a 10mm user over on THR posted several times about doing the same long-loading experimentation with his 610, and he stated that his success at developing a 100-yd "deer load" was the reason he passed on sending his wheelie to Bowen for reaming out the cylinders to 10mm mag length.

While I haven't tried reaching 10mm Mag levels, I have tried loading the 200gn XTPs out to, first, 1.325," then on up to 1.400", and increasing the powder charge slowly but steadily. IIRC, I was using AA#7. Some COALs I tried were more accurate than others, based on group sizes.

Nothing bad happened, but I eventually got tied up with something else and had to stop experiementing with finding the maximum safe load for long-loaded 10mm ammo in a 610.

Maybe someone else has attempted this long-loading alternative to having their 610's cylinders reamed?
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Old 06-27-2011, 16:40   #26
whenmonkeysfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agtman View Post
Well, back when I was playing around with hot stuff in my 610, I found you could increase velocity significantly with much more pressure by long-loading the projectile beyond the 1.260 COAL restriction in a 10mm autoloader. Since these were special loads for my 610 only, I used NICKLE brass to distinguish them from the reloads (using the goldish brass) for my autos.

Long time ago a 10mm user over on THR posted several times about doing the same long-loading experimentation with his 610, and he stated that his success at developing a 100-yd "deer load" was the reason he passed on sending his wheelie to Bowen for reaming out the cylinders to 10mm mag length.

While I haven't tried reaching 10mm Mag levels, I have tried loading the 200gn XTPs out to, first, 1.325," then on up to 1.400", and increasing the powder charge slowly but steadily. IIRC, I was using AA#7. Some COALs I tried were more accurate than others, based on group sizes.

Nothing bad happened, but I eventually got tied up with something else and had to stop experiementing with finding the maximum safe load for long-loaded 10mm ammo in a 610.

Maybe someone else has attempted this long-loading alternative to having their 610's cylinders reamed?
Agtman,

That's the kind of data/info I'm looking for being that I really don't want to go the 10mm Magnum route (yet ). Even staying within the 1.260 OAL, it seems you can get a lot of low volume powder in the case like Hodgdon's Longshot and/or AA#7 if I remember correctly. I'll have to look at my data when I was experimenting with the 9x25 Dillon. Good idea to distinguish/separate cases by nickel plating. I'd be interested in looking at your data if you are willing to share and certainly understand using at my own risk. The "N-frame" of the S&W 610 seems to be overkill by Smith, but it sure is nice shooting and does seem to like the heavier/hotter loads....
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:29   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly View Post
Agtman,

That's the kind of data/info I'm looking for being that I really don't want to go the 10mm Magnum route (yet ). Even staying within the 1.260 OAL, it seems you can get a lot of low volume powder in the case like Hodgdon's Longshot and/or AA#7 if I remember correctly. I'll have to look at my data when I was experimenting with the 9x25 Dillon. Good idea to distinguish/separate cases by nickel plating. I'd be interested in looking at your data if you are willing to share and certainly understand using at my own risk. The "N-frame" of the S&W 610 seems to be overkill by Smith, but it sure is nice shooting and does seem to like the heavier/hotter loads....
AA#9 is where it's at though I have had a lot of good luck with Blue Dot. The old Norma loads are pretty easy to obtain but my cases start to stick in my 610-3 much over that. YMMV.
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