GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2011, 07:49   #21
doneroman
SheepDogs-R-Us
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Infidel lair
Posts: 950
This is another legal/tactical quandry question, for LEOs to NOT answer.




Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScribe2009 View Post
The arresting officer just seemed to be perturbed that she wouldn't "follow his orders."

I hear this a lot from LEOs: It's illegal not to do what I tell you to do. Well, if it's a lawful order, yes, you're absolutely correct. During a traffic stop, if an officer tells me to turn my car off and keep my hands on the wheel, I'll comply because the officer's concerned about his safety. But if an officer tells me to get my hair cut and stop wearing flip-flops, I'll tell him to get lost.


How, as law enforcement officers, do you feel about this arrest, and about being videotaped while you're at work? If you want more details, there are likely news links (along with her video) all over the Internet.
doneroman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 08:35   #22
Vic777
Senior Member
 
Vic777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah View Post
I do wonder though: what's the point? I mean, why make a big production of standing in your yard, filming the cops?
The Cop is the one who made the big production. The Cops should be filmed so when they violate someones civil rights they can be sued, and the Citizen can be set free. It's not Rocket Science.
__________________
"It's Tom Dwan's World, we just live in it"
Vic777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 08:40   #23
Sam Spade
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
Sam Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 21,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic777 View Post
The Cop is the one who made the big production. The Cops should be filmed so when they violate someones civil rights they can be sued, and the Citizen can be set free. It's not Rocket Science.
Not rocket science picking out Agenda Trolls, either.

You'll forgive us if we don't want to talk to you. Well, maybe you won't, but I won't lose sleep. Toodles!
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
Sam Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 09:12   #24
Sharky7
Boomshakalaka
 
Sharky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
Here is the video. I would like to know what statement she made before starting to record. The officer mentions it at 1:21. He didnít ask her to stop recording, he asked her to go step in her house and not behind them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXA-KA-pEKw (Video)

http://www.examiner.com/technology-in-national/citizen-journalist-arrested-for-recording-police-stop-from-her-front-yard (Article)

I donít believe a person should be arrested for videotaping an officer on duty, but I donít know the entire story here either.

.
If this is the video the OP is talking about....it's clear she is not arrested for videotaping. Just plain and simple too close to the stop. If she was back another 20 yards or so I am betting they would not even had talked to her. Where she was standing, she could close the gap within just a few seconds....not something officers need when making arrests.
Sharky7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 09:19   #25
Sharky7
Boomshakalaka
 
Sharky7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,109
I don't mind if people videotape me...just do it at a safe distance for everyone involved. It is what it is....we have video cameras all around town and many stores have cameras as well. It's no big deal as long as they are not a safety hazard. I don't want to have to divide my attention away from the bad guys I am dealing with to constantly keep telling you to back up.

I would be uncomfortable when dealing with juveniles or victims of sensitive crimes and some goon is videotaping it to put on youtube for the world to see.
Sharky7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 10:26   #26
Misty02
Senior Member
 
Misty02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
If this is the video the OP is talking about....it's clear she is not arrested for videotaping. Just plain and simple too close to the stop. If she was back another 20 yards or so I am betting they would not even had talked to her. Where she was standing, she could close the gap within just a few seconds....not something officers need when making arrests.
I can only assume it is based on the description, the OP would need to confirm it for certain.

They mention something (at 1:21 into the video) she said before the camera started rolling. Knowing exactly what that was would likely help me in forming an opinion on the whole event. If it was a threat of any kind, then I understand them being upset with her presence. If it is not, then perhaps their actions werenít justified. I don't know.

What I did notice is that at no point did they ask her to stop recording. Could it have been a threatening comment they mention as the concern? Could it be a precaution to not have an innocent bystander too close in case something goes wrong if bullets start flying? The person they were investigating was actually facing the camera, were they taking precautions? Too many questions for me to form an opinion one way or the other.
.
__________________


"In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them." - Sun Tzu

Outpost Member #69
Misty02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 10:39   #27
MeefZah
Cover is Code 3
 
MeefZah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic777 View Post
The Cop is the one who made the big production. The Cops should be filmed so when they violate someones civil rights they can be sued, and the Citizen can be set free. It's not Rocket Science.
Thank you for clarifying it for me, I feel so stupid now. You are right, the Cop is inherently evil and the Citizen is inherently righteous; and video keeps evil from triumphing.

Man, before Louis Le Prince we had a good run.
__________________
"No amount of indoctrination or textbook learning will in themselves develop more than efficient mediocrity. Operations should be handled with a combination of force, subtlety, shrewdness, guile, and knowledge born of actual experience." - DF

Last edited by MeefZah; 06-26-2011 at 10:40..
MeefZah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 11:44   #28
Goldendog Redux
Shut your mouth
 
Goldendog Redux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Nevada
Posts: 6,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR View Post
Dealt with both. Paris Hilton for several hours, waiting for her sister Nicky and her publicist to come get her.
I'm comin on a ride along. I haven't been to Hollywood in a long time.
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Goldendog Redux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 16:53   #29
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,411


Welp! Since we are going down Tidybowl Lane, I'll start popping the popcorn.
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594
Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 17:44   #30
jbclark187
Senior Member
 
jbclark187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
As long as the junior Ernie Pyle is out of my way and not creating a hazard, I don't care. If he actually catches significant evidence on tape, I may end up seizing it.
Umm what? Seizing private property from a citizen? Hard to see why some cops get a bad rap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Cameras also take away from the officer's word. With cameras being common place, its becoming almost expected to have video evidence of something, much in the way CSI has created an expectation of hi tech forensic evidence.
Umm. Wait. So are you saying we should only rely on the officers word and ignore video evidence? I must've misunderstood your point.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member
jbclark187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 17:46   #31
DaBigBR
No Infidels!
 
DaBigBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbclark187 View Post
Umm what? Seizing private property from a citizen? Hard to see why some cops get a bad rap.
It's called "evidence" and it's seized quite frequently.
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."

-David Simon in "Homicide"
DaBigBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 18:13   #32
jbclark187
Senior Member
 
jbclark187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 262
No. No. I get that... If it's to show a criminal act by the perpetrator... Sure. I can get behind that. I think most citizens would willingly cooperate in such situations.

But if the officers are being caught in the act of wrong-doing and attempt to seize said evidence... Not too much of a stretch that they may try to personally suppress this evidence (i.e. Destroy it).

What's your recommendation there? Just hand it over like a good lil' sheep?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member
jbclark187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 18:49   #33
DaBigBR
No Infidels!
 
DaBigBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbclark187 View Post
No. No. I get that... If it's to show a criminal act by the perpetrator... Sure. I can get behind that. I think most citizens would willingly cooperate in such situations.

But if the officers are being caught in the act of wrong-doing and attempt to seize said evidence... Not too much of a stretch that they may try to personally suppress this evidence (i.e. Destroy it).

What's your recommendation there? Just hand it over like a good lil' sheep?
Where do you get that as the scenario that Sam Spade described? How does your initial reply reflect your specific concerns?
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."

-David Simon in "Homicide"
DaBigBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 18:56   #34
Dukeboy01
Pretty Ladies!
 
Dukeboy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 2,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris View Post
Welp! Since we are going down Tidybowl Lane, I'll start popping the popcorn.
Double butter for me.

IBTL.
__________________
"You want it to be one way... but it's the other way." - Marlo Stanfield
Dukeboy01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 19:10   #35
jbclark187
Senior Member
 
jbclark187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 262
His statement wasn't specific to that point.

I was merely implying that these encounters arent just to assist with the prosecution of a suspect - there can be other circumstances.

So... How does a law abiding citizen respond to an officer demanding a video of questionable officer conduct? I'm not trying to instigate anything here - a legitimate question, if someone would care to answer it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member
jbclark187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 19:13   #36
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,411


Making caramel corn next . . .
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594
Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 20:31   #37
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,116
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbclark187 View Post
So... How does a law abiding citizen respond to an officer demanding a video of questionable officer conduct? I'm not trying to instigate anything here - a legitimate question, if someone would care to answer it.
There is no one answer to your question as circumstances can and do vary greatly between situations.

I would suggest you spend a few $$$ and talk to an attorney as to what the law in your state says about the matter.

And you know what they say about asking a cop for legal advice...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 20:39   #38
Sam Spade
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
Sam Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 21,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbclark187 View Post
Umm what? Seizing private property from a citizen? Hard to see why some cops get a bad rap.
Evil to him who evil thinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbclark187 View Post
But if the officers are being caught in the act of wrong-doing and attempt to seize said evidence... Not too much of a stretch that they may try to personally suppress this evidence (i.e. Destroy it).

What's your recommendation there? Just hand it over like a good lil' sheep?
Ya know, we don't have a conversational history, so I don't really know your character. But I do know that you waltzed into the thread and led off with an assumption of wrongdoing on the part of LE, tying what you later claim to be a misunderstanding of my clear meaning to a snarky comment. So I'm going to invoke Big Boy Rules and give it to you straight.

If you're inept enough to get caught filming cops committing a felony, and then stupid and inept enough to get caught with the film while they were busy committing their felonies, then yeah, I recommend that you turn it over before you get it beaten from you. How can you possibly be so naive as to think that the criminals you just caught in the act will melt under your righteous indignation and ignore that you hold their freedom and livelihood in that little SIM card of yours? The only explanation I can think of is that you've lived a comfortable sheltered life, protected from reality in large part by the people you're disparaging, and have now confused Hollywood entertainment with reality.

You can get butthurt by this post if you choose. But at least someone has now exposed you to a glimpse of real life. Reread carefully---there are several nuggets of wisdom in this post.
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
Sam Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 21:43   #39
glockbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 266
It really can't hurt me or my case, since I am recording as much as I can. I wouldn't even look twice at someone recording me from a distance.

Now as others have mentioned, you get into my scene, and compromise my safety by distracting me. Then we are going to have a problem.
glockbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2011, 21:53   #40
blueiron
Clown move, bro
 
blueiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: On the corner of Gang and Ghetto
Posts: 13,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA#5 View Post
It sure did bother those cops when they found out about it.....especially when it was instrumental in convicting two of them in federal court.

It also bothered the cops when their racist radio dialogue was made public.





I fail to see the point of your comment. You infer a cause and effect relationship that any cop being videotaped will exhibit their true behaviors and do stupid things.

To that, I say that your impressions of me and my career are far better than my evaluation of your failures at a logical inference and developing a rational point in cognition.

resort to emoting. Reasoned thought has bypassed you.
__________________
Dear God, this is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. It's got to rank right up there with CALEA. -Pepper45

Bastard! - TBO

Last edited by blueiron; 06-26-2011 at 21:56..
blueiron is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 18:02.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,390
374 Members
1,016 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42