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Old 01-01-2011, 19:22   #51
Deaf Smith
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If Fastbolt says the internal lock is no problem, then to me that means it's no problem.

And yes I have an airweight Centennial .38 with the lock and I use for CCW along with my Glock 26.

Never hand any problems with the Centennial but then I never use the lock!

Deaf
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Old 01-01-2011, 19:45   #52
Iceman cHucK
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I had three with locks and removed them all, no problems.

One way to look at the issue. If the gun locks up during a critical shootout it could be a "once in your lifetime" event and would be the last thing in this world for you to think about!!!
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Old 01-01-2011, 20:56   #53
Tilley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
If Fastbolt says the internal lock is no problem, then to me that means it's no problem.
I had bought a brand new 360PD titanium snubbie. The lettering was "double-stamped" and looked like it was out of focus. I only own nylon bore brushes and used Breakfree to clean it, yet the protective coating came off the cylinder face and started to pockmark the cylinder face. I sent it back to S&W and the sent me back either a new weapon, or did a really-really good job redoing it.

After about 100 rounds of .38 WWB range ammo, the gun locked up. I have NEVER touched the lock prior to that. This time I took the gun to a local gunsmith who took the gun apart. The little spring that holds the flag came loose. If I rapid fired or if the gun was held upside down, gravity would bring the flag out, locking up the gun.

I had the gunsmith remove the flag and spring and he charged me $50.00. I didn't mind the little slot on the side of the hammer knowing the lock (flag) was gone. I eventually sold the gun because the recoil was way too much for me to shoot accurately with. The same gunsmith charged me another $50.00 to put the flag back in.

I now have a 342M&P .38 special and love it. I found a very good video online about how to remove the lock
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM)
and removed the flag myself, but I did not like the small round hole next to the lock where the flag pivots internally with. I bought a dremel and completely ground off the nub (I did a great job too). This is the nub:

The Snubbie Club

Since I really like this gun, I have no intentions of ever selling it, I am happy and confident this weapon will never lock up on me.
The Snubbie Club
The Snubbie Club
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:06   #54
fastbolt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilley View Post
This time I took the gun to a local gunsmith who took the gun apart. The little spring that holds the flag came loose. If I rapid fired or if the gun was held upside down, gravity would bring the flag out, locking up the gun.

I had the gunsmith remove the flag and spring and he charged me $50.00.
The bottom leg of the torque lock spring (the small spring installed in the locking arm, or "flag") sits in a small recess in the upper area of the machined space in which the bolt rests and moves. This, and the small stud which fits in the left side of the frame, is how the locking arm is secured to the frame.

The spring holds the locking arm down under recoil, and pulls it downward when the locking arm is in the unlocked position. If the spring's leg isn't properly located in the small recess, the locking arm isn't held in position as intended. (You can't see the spring's leg and its recess in the posted image because the bolt is installed and blocks its view.)

During the armorer class I noticed that if the side plate is removed, and then the hammer and bolt are removed, and then the frame is tipped onto its right side, the weight of the locking arm can dislodge it from the frame, including the spring's bottom leg from its recess, and allow the locking arm to fall free of the frame. Naturally, the locking arm must be installed properly, which includes positioning the spring in its intended recess so it anchors the locking arm.

It's not my business to try and talk someone into, or out of, "liking" the ILS in new model S&W revolvers. I know folks for whom I have a lot of respect who have opinions on both sides of the "debate" about the ILS in the revolvers.

Fortunately, S&W has released some internal hammer (Centennial) models which are not equipped with the ILS, so those folks so inclined can have a few options when it comes to choosing a J-frame which doesn't have the lock.

I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to this subject (being just an armorer), nor am I under any illusion that any mechanical device/design is immune to failure for one reason or another.

It's just not something that keeps me awake at night, worrying about it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:49   #55
ducati
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I have not had a problem with my 642. I wish it would have been an option.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:08   #56
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I would, but only if I couldn't get one without the internal lock.
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Old 01-22-2011, 21:34   #57
markesquire
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I carry one everyday

I carry a bodyguard with lock and lock it everynight in my truck. It does give me some peace of mind with kids around.

Mark

Last edited by markesquire; 01-22-2011 at 21:35..
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Old 02-08-2011, 18:22   #58
fowler
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Have one without lock,but had one lock-up with lock . Ground stud off lock then gun worked no matter where the key was turned. Best way is to take out all the lock crap and tread_tap and loctite a allen head lock screw in the from the inside and leave the off side flush with the frame. Looks and works great. I just bought a no-lock when they were out.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:55   #59
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I have a 642 and a 638 both with the lock and have fired over a 1000 rounds thru each with absolutely no problem.
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Old 06-05-2011, 20:07   #60
AZ_Quailhunter
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yes....I carry a M36 with a lock....and own one without a lock. Both reliable as can be.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:26   #61
NMPOPS
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I've carried one every day for over 5 years with the lock. 1000+ rounds, no problems. I also have a 638 w/ lock and almost as many rounds. When I retired I pretty much qit carrying square guns in favor of my two S&Ws with no worries whatsoever.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:57   #62
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I just picked up my first 642 after trading in my p22. It's a nice little gun, but the only problem is it has the ILS. Even though the chance of the lock ever becoming a problem is small, something about it bugs me. Do any of you carry one with the lock?
I have one but never activate the lock. No kids in my house and with the lock activate it won't go boom when the assailant is about to stab you.

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Old 06-08-2011, 04:32   #63
fowler
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Grind the flag off. I had one early and it locked up shooting hot 125gr.hp,s. I picked up a 642-1 no lock about 5years ago and never looked back. Won,t buy a SW with a lock,no thankyou. A favorite with the late Steven Camp . A great 24/7 ccw weapon.
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Old 06-08-2011, 13:38   #64
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I have for a couple of years. Every time I go shooting, I draw it from my pocket holster and fire five shots.....it always go bang. Personally it does not bother me. There are plenty of internet stories saying otherwise. Until it fails me I will continue to use it.
What you said, whaledriver. There is a lot of crap on the internet about a lot of things. We use to have urban legends now we have internet legends.
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Old 06-12-2011, 16:45   #65
fowler
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Twice a 642 -2 locked up once for me and another at the range. Shooting 125gr. plus-p. Maybe they will not lock up with standard mild factory ammo,but it did for me shooting Cor-bon and my pal shooting ww110+P+. No lock for me thankyou!!!! Cyl. locked up solid ,could not pull trigger.

Last edited by fowler; 06-12-2011 at 16:45..
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Old 06-14-2011, 22:19   #66
fastbolt
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Hey, the thread came back online ...

FWIW, the J-frame I decided to take with me during an out-of-state trip (just got back) under LEOSA was my M&P 340. The one with the ILS. Not either of my 642-1's, my 649-4 or my 37-2, none of which have ILS's.

Why? Because the front night sight & U-shaped rear notch on the M&P give me a noticeable edge in aimed fire when I take time to catch a sight. Handy.

I have another M&P 340 on order, coincidentally enough, this time the new model variation made without a ILS.

Why? Because they finally made one without the ILS and I liked my first one so well I was waiting for an excuse to buy a second one. Why not one without the ILS?

I'll keep my original one for use in a backup role to the new one (once the new one proves itself functional) and to use as a "range beater", to see if I can ever wear it out. While I do occasionally use .357 Magnum loads for practice & quals, I mostly use a mix of various +P (at least 4 loads I can think of off the top of my head) and standard pressure loads (budget practice).

BTW, I've experienced ... and had other folks bring to me ... revolvers, including S&W J-frames (with & without the ILS) which have had the hammer, trigger or cylinder "lock up", seize, etc. There are other mechanical (and owner-induced) things that can happen with a revolver which can cause such a problem, even in models without a ILS.
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