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Old 05-16-2011, 13:47   #1
Old Junes
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Protect Yourself Without Ever Firing a Shot?

I am wondering what the ramifications (legal or otherwise) would be of pulling your gun to diffuse a situation or prevent a crime from happening without ever firing a shot. As a responsible CCW permit holder I am well versed in the instances where deadly force would be justified in my state. That said, if pulling a gun deescalated a situation without the use of deadly force it seems to me that would be greatly preferred. Thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2011, 13:54   #2
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Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:07   #3
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Thats a tough one. I think I would pull my gun to try and diffuse a situation.

In a situation like that I would be more worried about the present than the future. If pulling a gun out is going to make the bad guy go away I would do that rather than let him keep the ball in his court.


Besides if you pull your gun on someone and they leave your 99% of the time going to be following that situation up with a call to the police so they can try and find the guy.

You think your going to get arrested for pulling a gun? Maybe you will but that's one of those things you just gotta deal with it if it happens. I don't think any cop in his/her right mind would try to arrest you for responsibly defending yourself.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:10   #4
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As far as I know, the only diffusing to be done with a drawn weapon is when the perp hits the ground.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:11   #5
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Well we have brandishing laws, but when it comes down to close friends and family I would do almost anything to make sure they as well as I, am protected. So this can go both ways, and depends greatly on the situation. It comes down to you're not a LEO. Pull the gun when you tend to use it, which means pulling the trigger, in a life or death situation. Not saying 100% of the time when you pull your gun, you shoot, but your mind should already be prepared and ready to pull the trigger. If your only intentions are to "diffuse" the situation with the "sight" of your firearm, call 911 and let them handle it. Otherwise, your gun doesn't need to be unholstered. Thankfully I've never had to use my guns in a self defense situation, but that's how I've always been taught before and after acquiring my CPL.

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Old 05-16-2011, 14:12   #6
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Every state has different laws on brandishing a firearm. In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime. What you need to do is check with your state and see what the rules are

I bought a book that has been very helpful to me on what can and can't be done. the book is self defence laws in all fifty states by mich veto. at the time it was 29.95 with free shipping but well worth the dollar
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:31   #7
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In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime.
Depends on the crime.

The threat of deadly force is only permitted when the use of deadly force is permitted.
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Old 05-16-2011, 14:56   #8
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If you believe pulling a gun can defuse that situation, then first consider shouting to the BG that "someone already called 9-1-1. The cops are on the way." At least after that, if the BG continued to be aggressive, you'd have a better argument as to why you pulled your gun.
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Old 05-16-2011, 18:58   #9
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I've seen it twice, a gun pulled, hesitation, and it ended up getting taken away from the owner during the ensuing scuffle. Luckily the owner(s) didn't get shot with his own gun. IMHO, it stays put unless it really needs to be fired. Some are not deterred by the mere sight of one.
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Old 05-16-2011, 19:02   #10
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Check with your state, they should have laws about how to handle this situation. In any event, I believe very few states allow you to "show" your weapon to "diffuse" the situation. That's what OC is for.
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Old 05-16-2011, 19:09   #11
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You pull your gun without the justification for using it.
The guy you pull it on isn't intimidated.
Now what are you going to do?
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Old 05-16-2011, 21:49   #12
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Originally Posted by BigLaw View Post
Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
You wouldn't skin it to save somebody else's life? If a BG has a gun pointed at somebody else's head? Or if somebody's on the ground being kicked, stomped, and beaten to a bloody pulp by more BG's than you could stop by yourself?

Or are you saying in those situations that you would actually shoot?
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Old 05-16-2011, 22:04   #13
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Well, legally or not, Gary Kleck estimates that in the vast majority of instances where guns are used for self defense, the gun is not fired, only pointed or referred to.
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Old 05-16-2011, 22:07   #14
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:32   #15
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If it's ever necessary to draw my gun, then it will probably be necessary that I fire it. Drawing that weapon is always the last option for me, and it's something I pray that I never have to do.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:24   #16
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To be fair, when an aggressor sees/feels that the person he/she's harassing/accosting/threatening is going for a gun, there's a VERY good chance that all you'll get to do is pull it because he/she/it will be running like hell. They know that what they're doing is wrong and you have the right to defend yourself. Besides, most people don't have the duty to arrest...
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:46   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLaw View Post
Don't pull your gun unless you are going to kill somebody with it. If you just yank it out to try and scare somebody out of what they are doing you more than likely will end up in jail. I wouldn't draw unless the situation is bad enough to pull the trigger. Don't worry about somebody commiting a crime, you are not the police, just report it. As for a situation, unless it involves you directly and you have a VERY good reason to believe your life is in danger right then, keep it in the holster.
I couldn't have said it any better.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:03   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djpuffnstuff View Post

...I don't think any cop in his/her right mind would try to arrest you for responsibly defending yourself.
No? Read this.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:28   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Junes View Post
I am wondering what the ramifications (legal or otherwise) would be of pulling your gun to diffuse a situation or prevent a crime from happening without ever firing a shot. As a responsible CCW permit holder I am well versed in the instances where deadly force would be justified in my state. That said, if pulling a gun deescalated a situation without the use of deadly force it seems to me that would be greatly preferred. Thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomerpyle View Post
Well we have brandishing laws, but when it comes down to close friends and family I would do almost anything to make sure they as well as I, am protected. So this can go both ways, and depends greatly on the situation. It comes down to you're not a LEO. Pull the gun when you tend to use it, which means pulling the trigger, in a life or death situation. Not saying 100% of the time when you pull your gun, you shoot, but your mind should already be prepared and ready to pull the trigger. If your only intentions are to "diffuse" the situation with the "sight" of your firearm, call 911 and let them handle it. Otherwise, your gun doesn't need to be unholstered. Thankfully I've never had to use my guns in a self defense situation, but that's how I've always been taught before and after acquiring my CPL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
Every state has different laws on brandishing a firearm. In some states like Texas it is allowed if it is to defuse or stop a crime. What you need to do is check with your state and see what the rules are

I bought a book that has been very helpful to me on what can and can't be done. the book is self defence laws in all fifty states by mich veto. at the time it was 29.95 with free shipping but well worth the dollar
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Originally Posted by packsaddle View Post
Depends on the crime.

The threat of deadly force is only permitted when the use of deadly force is permitted.
As a general rule, if a situation does not justify the use of deadly force then you would be in the wrong to "threaten to use deadly force" (which is what your are doing when you draw the gun...whether you say anything or not...the threat is implied by you simply presenting the weapon).

So, in a nutshell:
If the situation justifies the use of deadly force, you are safe to draw.
If the situation does not justify the use of deadly force, you may not be safe to draw.

If you've got no intention of shooting, you've got no business drawing. That does not mean that if you draw you must shoot, just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, & able" to shoot.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:37   #20
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Originally Posted by dosei View Post
As a general rule, if a situation does not justify the use of deadly force then you would be in the wrong to "threaten to use deadly force" (which is what your are doing when you draw the gun...whether you say anything or not...the threat is implied by you simply presenting the weapon).

So, in a nutshell:
If the situation justifies the use of deadly force, you are safe to draw.
If the situation does not justify the use of deadly force, you may not be safe to draw.

If you've got no intention of shooting, you've got no business drawing. That does not mean that if you draw you must shoot, just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, & able" to shoot.
Bingo. (for most states)

.....just that if you draw you darn well better be "ready, willing, able & legal" to shoot.
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:45   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimp View Post
Where in that article was he defending himself? Without getting into all the emotion of Open Carry... where exactly was that clown arrested for defending himself? He was arrested for open carrying (whether it was a proper arrest or not, is for the court to decide).

There's other examples(and frankly, far better ones) of people being arrested after a self defense incident, that would have been better to point out.
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:32   #22
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As mentioned, if deadly force is legally appropriate you are probably OK. If you are just drawing to try to scare someone maybe you should put on an ugly mask and yell "BOO!" real loud instead.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:17   #23
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:19   #24
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Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
You pull your gun without the justification for using it.
The guy you pull it on isn't intimidated.
Now what are you going to do?
I agree, it has now escalated.

Last edited by Cream Soda Kid; 05-17-2011 at 10:21..
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:24   #25
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The second half of the posts above mirror my thoughts, training and IMO good common sense.

Only pull your gun if you are in a situation that warrants the use of it. Otherwise you could be in some big trouble (Menacing, Brandishing, Etc).

During any such encounter, you should be constantly evaluating the situation. You do not want to train yourself that a trigger pull is automatic after drawing.

Say someone turns and runs, or backs off with their hand up as they see you un-holster. Shooting them in the back, or after surrender in front of witnesses lands you in a world trouble in the form of homicide, or manslaughter.

Of course you must always be willing and able to pull the trigger if necessary, for the above mentioned reasons.

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