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Old 04-10-2011, 11:57   #41
RyanNREMTP
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Originally Posted by Aaron1100us View Post

BTW, I want a Glock 33 in .357 sig really bad. Hard to find though.
If you have a G27 then all you need to buy is a .357 Sig barrel. It's what I did with my G22 and pretty soon with my G27.
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Old 04-10-2011, 13:20   #42
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No, the 357sig was designed around the vaunted 125gr 357mag load. It's only real reason for existing.
And I readily admit that's my only real reason for liking it. Nothing is fail-safe, but I trust the old magnum's record with that load. Reliable feeding, looking cool, and less muzzle flip than a .40 are just icing. I wouldn't like it for those reasons alone.

Plus, I usually dislike a middle-of-the-road or split-the-difference approach to most things. I want to be on one side of the fence or the other (never say always, but usually). Were I a revolver affectionado, I would not carry a .41 mag when I could have a .357 or .44.

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Old 04-10-2011, 13:28   #43
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...
All subjective really. More energy; less than 50ft# means little to nothing, better accuracy, most shooters, even top LEO can't ring the best accuracy out of a service round. Flat shooting; every service caliber shoots the same to 50yds +/-1", since most shooters can't take advantage of that either, also means nothing. Reliability; again, maybe. The 357sig propensity for bullet setback could be more problematic than a straight wall case when rechambering rounds.
The Secret Service's findings were the result of objective testing which included extensive testing with hard barriers. I was asked why I re-barreled my .40 S&Ws to .357 SIG and provided the answer. I certainly wasn't trying to influence anyone in their personal defense cartridge selection - if you think .40 S&W or even .25 ACP serves you better, that's what I'd use.
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Old 04-10-2011, 13:45   #44
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The Secret Service's findings were the result of objective testing which included extensive testing with hard barriers. I was asked why I re-barreled my .40 S&Ws to .357 SIG and provided the answer. I certainly wasn't trying to influence anyone in their personal defense cartridge selection - if you think .40 S&W or even .25 ACP serves you better, that's what I'd use.
I am not denying there are slight benefits, but it is subjective. If you think a 1" diff in drop to 100yds is better or that 50ft# is better, well, it may be, but does it matter? No, not really. A few years down the road this or that LEA will move to something else based on "objective" testing. Does it mean that their previous choice is not invalid? See my point, it matters little why one LEA or another chooses a service round. Look at the "objective" testing that now has the US mil carrying a Beretta 9mm?
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Old 04-10-2011, 14:30   #45
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Good points being made by several of you. Don't know if I will run out and buy a GLOCK 31 tomorrow, but somewhere down the road I might get a conversion barrel for my GLOCK 23 just to try it out.

.357 SIG is the only caliber apart from the GAP that I don't shoot.
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Old 04-10-2011, 15:10   #46
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I am not denying there are skight benefits, but it is subjective. If you think a 1" diff in drop to 100yds is better or that 50ft# is better, well, it may be, but does it matter? No, not really. A few years down the road this or that LEA will move to something else based on "objective" testing. Does it mean that their previous choice is not invalid? See my point, it matters little why one LEA or another chooses a service round. Look at the "objective" testing that now has the US mil carrying a Beretta 9mm?
I think that might have been a carry-over of the McNamara Rule that it was "better to wound than kill" that led to the replacement of the 7.62 mm with the 5.56 mm. In any event, after they force issued us the M9 Barettas, the joke was, "If you have to shoot someone with that thing, make sure you shoot him a lot".
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Old 04-10-2011, 17:52   #47
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I think that might have been a carry-over of the McNamara Rule that it was "better to wound than kill" that led to the replacement of the 7.62 mm with the 5.56 mm. In any event, after they force issued us the M9 Barettas, the joke was, "If you have to shoot someone with that thing, make sure you shoot him a lot".
Maybe, but the smaller rounds make more sense on the battle field logistically speaking. You can carry more ammo & it's cheaper for the DD to buy & ship. I am sure few soldiers who have used larger roudns are extatic over the 9mm or the 223, esp w/ ball ammo.
LEA are subject to budgets too. Also with smaller male & female officers, they don't handle bigger guns & heavier loads, one reason the 10mm never made it & why the 45 is pretty much a special units choice. Many depts go with a combo that offers balance in cost & shootabilty. I think the 357sig is more shooter friendly, especially in lighter guns, but either work if the guy pulling the trigger does their job. I use/carry them all in one form or another, so I really have no particular bias.
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:10   #48
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I just it has its place however, we have been killing people with 9mm and .45acp for a while now.

For personal protection I suggest 9mm, .40cal, .45acp and keep it moving.
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:19   #49
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The 357 Sig/38 Super/357 mag all are good rounds with excellent sectional density and resulting penetration capability. The choice more of type of handgun preference, some like 1911's and 38 super, plastic and 357 sig, revolvers and 357 mag. I personally like the 357 mag the best as it does have the most power, especially in the heavier bullets as the 158 gr that I use.

No need to get rid of any of em
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:35   #50
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The 357 Sig/38 Super/357 mag all are good rounds with excellent sectional density and resulting penetration capability. The choice more of type of handgun preference, some like 1911's and 38 super, plastic and 357 sig, revolvers and 357 mag. I personally like the 357 mag the best as it does have the most power, especially in the heavier bullets as the 158 gr that I use.

No need to get rid of any of em
So does the Mossad.
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:37   #51
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With the .357sig, Why does the 9mm exist? Or why does the .40 S&W exist when the .45 ACP does a better job?
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Old 04-10-2011, 19:13   #52
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I own a 31, 32 and 33.....love the round immensely. I've found factory ammo for the same price as the 40sw....so the price argument is a moot point in my book.
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Old 04-10-2011, 19:29   #53
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"Why does the .357 SIG need to exist? In the military one uses what one is issued. There is no sitting around reading articles and picking out exactly what one wants. In most LE agencies, one carries and uses what is authorized for carry/use. There may be some latitude, but one will not be able to do as one pleases. One will have to abide by policy. Private citizens can choose to carry/use what they want to carry/use. The multiplicity of calibers available for rifles and handguns testifies to the tremendous variety of choices available. People make their decisions based on a lot of different factors, of which ballistics, etc., are a partial factor. Sometimes, people make their choice based on a particular type of handgun. Sometimes they even make those choices based on popular mythology... i.e., that a particular caliber is somehow superior that other very similar calibers.
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Old 04-10-2011, 20:19   #54
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I own a 31, 32 and 33.....love the round immensely. I've found factory ammo for the same price as the 40sw....so the price argument is a moot point in my book.
.
+1

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/357-sig
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Old 04-10-2011, 21:36   #55
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No. Can't do anything with the 125gr. bullets of the 9mm +P+, .38 Super, 9X21, 9x23, 356TSW, and so on. High velocity mid-bore has been redone over and over. 9mm is still around because none of them do anything much if anything better.
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Old 04-10-2011, 21:47   #56
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Before 357 Sig was developed, the Secret Service was looking for a cartridge that had the ballistics of the 125 grain JHP 357 Magnum, which had the best gunfight record at that time, and would work in automatic pistols. Federal and Sig worked on developing the cartridge and the P-229 pistol. Pretty much with the understanding that if it was developed and produced, that the Secret Service would buy their pistols and ammunition.
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Old 04-10-2011, 22:07   #57
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cant we all just get along, look... big freaking deal, some of us like the .357sig, and some of you don't.... . I for one do like the .357sig i have used it on duty as a cop and i have also used a .40.... just like we can argue the difference between a 12 gauge, 16 gauge or 20 gauge shot gun... it all comes down to one thing. What do YOU need a gun for, what is YOUR purpose for shooting and what do YOU like. because if your a target shooter that only puts holes in paper, maybe you want a light .40, if your a competition shooter maybe you want a light 9, if your a cop maybe you need 180 grain .40 or maybe you want the distance you can reach with a .357sig without the bullet drop.... everyone is different and we all have different reasons for shooting. buy what you need and stop trying to convince us we need what you have.....
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Old 04-10-2011, 23:47   #58
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If .40 S&Ws can push a 135gr bullet to 1420 fps, PLUS a 165 gr @ 1240fps, plus a 180gr @ 1150fps, all the way up to a 200 gr @ 1100fps, why does anyone need the .357 sig?

The 125 grain .357 SIG is a smaller bullet and it only has 100fps higher velocity than the larger 135 gr .40S&W. If you up the weight of the .357 SIG to 147 grains, it only makes 1296fps, compared to a heavier 165gr .40S&W at 1240.

On top of that, Double Tap loads a 125 grain .40S&W load at 1445fps, lagging behind the .357 SIG round by only 5 fps.

I don't see the need to hang on to the .357 SIG round when it is already scarce on store shelves and is more difficult to reload and re-use brass, being a necked down cartridge.

Someone defend it and prove me wrong
I don't see the need for 40 S&W.

When you look at the idea between 40 S&W and 357 SIG from the standpoint what happens to the target (living or inanimate) after it's hit, what can't a 357 SIG do with a single bullet weight of 125 grains that a 40 S&W can do with any bullet weight?

My answer to that is nothing. The 357 SIG is virtually always better than or equal to 40 S&W, not the other way around. This based on leaving cost of ammo out of the equation, which appears to be more or less getting too close to worry about anyway.

You mentioned that Double Tap loads a 125 grain .40S&W load at 1445fps, lagging behind the .357 SIG round by only 5 fps. First of all, that's ONLY if DT isn't lying about the FPS, as they currently are with 10mm. And I'm not just talking about -50fps. I'm talking about +100fps in most cases.

That said, let's assume for a moment that Double Tap's 357 SIG and 40 S&W box flap claims are true. Well then DT also offers a 357 SIG 125gr JHP load at 1525fps. Now that becomes +80fps, not the +5 fps you mentioned earlier. Now some will say that still, 80fps ain't you know what. I don't agree as 80fps equals an additional 55mph. And in my book that's enough to make a positive difference in wounding and incapacitation of a threat. Your mileage may vary. Just my 2 cents.

All that said, I would never tell anyone they shouldn't carry 40 S&W. And for myself personally, I only carry 10mm which IMO outdoes either 357 SIG or 40 S&W.
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Old 04-10-2011, 23:49   #59
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If my hands were too small for a SF 10mm, then I'd go with the .357
+1

If for some reason 10mm didn't exist or just couldn't work for me for one reason or another, it would be 357SIG all the way!
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Old 04-10-2011, 23:55   #60
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Variety is the spice of life. IMO the 9mm is the perfect handgun round, but there is enough room for them all.. From the .22 to the 500 S&W, they all have their purpose and fans..
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