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Old 02-10-2011, 18:13   #26
mjkeat
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Originally Posted by Captains1911 View Post
A piston AR may be cleaner, but as I mentioned ARs don't need to be clean to be reliable, so it's really a solution to a non-existent problem.

These are my thoughts, YMMV.
Not really much cleaner. Just dirty in different areas. I probably wont ever purchase a piston gun again. DIs work just as well for my semi only self.
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Old 02-10-2011, 18:28   #27
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I'll leave pistons to the AKs, & gas to the ARs.
I've been shooting those for 25 years, no need to change now.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:57   #28
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Its no secret that I love gas piston AR's. I have a few lengthy threads here at GT stating the fact. I to have been shooting d.i.'s for over 2 decades (since 1989 when I first joined the service.) I love d.i's but I love not cleaning the star chamber more. I'd gladly clean the piston and piston tube vs the star chamber in the receiver. That right there is enough justification for me. It may not be a good enough reason for anybody else but guess what ....I dont care lol.

Gun snobbery is rampant on the internet. I think shooters should just buy what makes them happy and what fits their needs and what works for them.

The haters will tell you that gas piston AR's are too heavy, they have more parts to fail,they experience carrier tilt, arent accurate, parts are hard to find, the design is not standardized, they are not true mil-spec, that its a solution looking for a problem that doesnt exist and so on and so forth.

Some of which is true and many of which is NOT true...and all of which I dont care. I am not saying gas pistons are an improvement or that they are better...all I can say is that I no longer have to use a dental pick or special shaped brush to clean that dang star chamber and I dont have to "run the bolt wet" and thats worth every penny to me.





On a side note - While I was at the media day shoot in Boulder City last month Surefire had 2 d.i. rifles for us to shoot to test out their 60 & 100 round magazines. These d.i. rifles were getting the snot shot out of them! They held up a few thousand round and a few hours of consistent shooting until they finally needed to stop and lube the bolt due to malfunctions. I even got video of the guns going down due to the fouling. I didnt plan seeing it, I was just there when it happened. The d.i's held up for hours just fine until they malfunctioned which is good enough for me for home defense or SHTF I would think since I dont think I will be putting 2000 rounds down range in a real world situation? But they did have dirty bolt issues..thats a fact.

Meanwhile at the HK booth, they had their MR556A1 out for us to shoot all day.(civilian version of the HK416 gas piston gun) I asked when they cleaned it last and he said it has not been cleaned or oiled all day and no one had any malfunctions. Was he telling the truth? Who knows?

All I can tell you is what I personally know and personally experienced. Take it for what thats worth?

Last edited by mixflip; 02-11-2011 at 13:15..
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Old 02-11-2011, 16:42   #29
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Its no secret that I love gas piston AR's. I have a few lengthy threads here at GT stating the fact. I to have been shooting d.i.'s for over 2 decades (since 1989 when I first joined the service.) I love d.i's but I love not cleaning the star chamber more. I'd gladly clean the piston and piston tube vs the star chamber in the receiver. That right there is enough justification for me. It may not be a good enough reason for anybody else but guess what ....I dont care lol.

Gun snobbery is rampant on the internet. I think shooters should just buy what makes them happy and what fits their needs and what works for them.

The haters will tell you that gas piston AR's are too heavy, they have more parts to fail,they experience carrier tilt, arent accurate, parts are hard to find, the design is not standardized, they are not true mil-spec, that its a solution looking for a problem that doesnt exist and so on and so forth.

Some of which is true and many of which is NOT true...and all of which I dont care. I am not saying gas pistons are an improvement or that they are better...all I can say is that I no longer have to use a dental pick or special shaped brush to clean that dang star chamber and I dont have to "run the bolt wet" and thats worth every penny to me.





On a side note - While I was at the media day shoot in Boulder City last month Surefire had 2 d.i. rifles for us to shoot to test out their 60 & 100 round magazines. These d.i. rifles were getting the snot shot out of them! They held up a few thousand round and a few hours of consistent shooting until they finally needed to stop and lube the bolt due to malfunctions. I even got video of the guns going down due to the fouling. I didnt plan seeing it, I was just there when it happened. The d.i's held up for hours just fine until they malfunctioned which is good enough for me for home defense or SHTF I would think since I dont think I will be putting 2000 rounds down range in a real world situation? But they did have dirty bolt issues..thats a fact.

Meanwhile at the HK booth, they had their MR556A1 out for us to shoot all day.(civilian version of the HK416 gas piston gun) I asked when they cleaned it last and he said it has not been cleaned or oiled all day and no one had any malfunctions. Was he telling the truth? Who knows?

All I can tell you is what I personally know and personally experienced. Take it for what thats worth?
That in the red is true though, heres some food for thought, on running a piston AR dry, excellerated wear, yes when the steel bolt carrier runs back and forth under pressure, it wears the aluminum upper. Sure the factories dont worry about as they can just toss it and replace it, but who wants to destroy a rifle by not lubing it? Its not allot different thant aluminum pistons in a cast iron block, sure there is not as much heat, but you still need it lubed or do you run your engine without oil? The biggest reason a AK is so damn reliable is, it is built to far looser tollarances than the AR, and this is done for a number of reasons, 1. conscripts in Soviet service were less than well educated in firearms, kerosene or diesel was the solvent, with motor oil the lubricant. 2. ease of manufacturer by those who are not well educated, and are more or less required to work there. 3. Soviet machinery of the era, was not as well made or have the abilty that their western counterparts had or possesed.

Last edited by mstennes; 02-11-2011 at 16:43..
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Old 02-11-2011, 19:42   #30
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I think you are jumping to extreme conclusions arent you? Exactly where did I say I run my piston gun "dry with no oil what so ever?" I said I dont need to run it "wet" meaning that I dont have to continue adding oil that has been burnt off due to all the hot propellent gases that get dumped into the chamber after every shot like on my d.i. gun. That heat burns off the oil on the bolt (often called coking) and it also excellerates the deteriation of the rubber gas o-rings on a d.i.

So my point is that I dont have to worry about carrying around a bottle of oil in my pocket and adding oil to the bolt intermitently through out the day and I dont have to worry about worn out gas o-rings.

Yes I oil the bolt, and at the end of the day my bolt is still oily since no heat was ever transffered to the bolt and no carbon fouling was ever deposited in the star chamber. I dont understand why the d.i. die hards cant understand why folks like me like this feature?

I even have a video that I took after my long day out shooting just to show the benefits of it. No its not perfect. No gun is perfect, but I do like the benefits of my piston gun over my d.i. If you dont agree with my dicission...I dont know what to tell you?

Btw, all that was said in the red...is not all true. I can post a nice list that shows that its hype & hate, if you like, since I own both gas piston and d.i.?

Last edited by mixflip; 02-11-2011 at 19:55..
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Old 02-12-2011, 13:33   #31
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So what type of lube is best on DI guns? Grease, just standard gun oil, etc...?
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Old 02-12-2011, 15:06   #32
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Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
I think you are jumping to extreme conclusions arent you? Exactly where did I say I run my piston gun "dry with no oil what so ever?" I said I dont need to run it "wet" meaning that I dont have to continue adding oil that has been burnt off due to all the hot propellent gases that get dumped into the chamber after every shot like on my d.i. gun. That heat burns off the oil on the bolt (often called coking) and it also excellerates the deteriation of the rubber gas o-rings on a d.i.

So my point is that I dont have to worry about carrying around a bottle of oil in my pocket and adding oil to the bolt intermitently through out the day and I dont have to worry about worn out gas o-rings.

Yes I oil the bolt, and at the end of the day my bolt is still oily since no heat was ever transffered to the bolt and no carbon fouling was ever deposited in the star chamber. I dont understand why the d.i. die hards cant understand why folks like me like this feature?

I even have a video that I took after my long day out shooting just to show the benefits of it. No its not perfect. No gun is perfect, but I do like the benefits of my piston gun over my d.i. If you dont agree with my dicission...I dont know what to tell you?

Btw, all that was said in the red...is not all true. I can post a nice list that shows that its hype & hate, if you like, since I own both gas piston and d.i.?
I own both also, and the explain to me how parts are not a problem??? You have to go to vendor specific for your piston AP. Explain to me how piston parts are mil spec??? Who makes a mil spec piston??? There are none??? A AR was designed as DI, adding a piston is a compromise, no way around the fact you have to comprimise to make things fit with in the demensions your working. My LWRC piston brings nothing to the table other than easier cleaning. Read about filthy 14, seriously, I have shot over 1000 rds without lubing on more than one occasion, if I my life was depending on no failures and had shot a 1000 rounds I'm in the wrong place and chances of survival are pretty slim. But thats not what were talkiing about, you dont have to run a DI wet, just a quick shot and your good to go if you want to not clean it.
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Old 02-12-2011, 19:56   #33
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I own both also, and the explain to me how parts are not a problem??? You have to go to vendor specific for your piston AP.
I agree you do but what part are you expecting to break? The op rod? The BCG? I have been shooting the M16/AR platform for over 2 decades now and I have not personally broken or even seen any one in my professional circle have a BCG break. I also have never seen any piston guns op rod bend or break? I am not saying it isnt possible but looking past the hype, the reality is that op rods and BCG's are not a manor weak point of any rifle. I have heard of a spring cup breaking but my piston gun does not have a spring cup design? Mil-spec or not? Bolt heads break (rarely), Extractors break, extractor springs weaken, buffer springs weaken, gas o-rings degrade, mag springs weaken, mag feed lips bend, charging handle latches wear down or bend...all of which I have personally seen and all of which I can easily replace without going to a piston vendor. I am not a hard core warfighter so maybe thats why expect my BCG and op rod will last longer than me? If I am wrong I will post a detailed video of my broken BCG and op rod the day it happens.
I have a feeling that will be a long time? I always find it odd that so many parts are needed to be replaced in the first place? I thought these guns are supposed to be durable?


Explain to me how piston parts are mil spec??? Who makes a mil spec piston??? There are none???
No AR is mil-spec hence the designation AR and not M4 or M16. You need select fire to be tru mil-spec. You can build a gun that is very close to mil-spec sure but even then you need to have the TDP's from Uncle Sam to build a tru mil spec gun. Only 3 companies have TDP's for the M16/M4 ...Colt, FNH and most recently Sabre Defense. I was at the Sabre Defense booth at Shot Show last month and got to handle their new M4 piston carbine. http://www.sabredefence.com/products.php#products/m4tactical Sabre includes every possible mil-spec component to their piston carbine that they can possibly add. So is it mil-spec? Not 100% but dang near it since they do have ISO9000 certification and the government TDPs for M16's. A company called ADDAXX also makes a piston upper that is dang near mil-spec i.e. 4150 cold hammer forged CM vanadium steel barrels, M4 feed ramps, chrome lined, 1:7 twist etc etc...

A AR was designed as DI, adding a piston is a compromise, no way around the fact you have to comprimise to make things fit with in the demensions your working. My LWRC piston brings nothing to the table other than easier cleaning.
ReallY? Your LWRC doesnt bring to the table a cooler chamber? Cooler bolts and BCG's greatly extend the service life of those parts especially since there is no heat transfer to rubber gas o-rings. No heat and fouling under the extractor is ALOT on the table if you ask me? I am no expert but I'll take a cool and clean star chamber over a hot and dirty one personally. And for the record, I am not telling you to drop your system and follow me. I never once said d.i. doesnt work. Why do d.i guys always forget to add that feature to "the table"?

Read about filthy 14, seriously, I have shot over 1000 rds without lubing on more than one occasion, if I my life was depending on no failures and had shot a 1000 rounds I'm in the wrong place and chances of survival are pretty slim. But thats not what were talkiing about, you dont have to run a DI wet, just a quick shot and your good to go if you want to not clean it.
A quick shot of what? Oil? Yeah thats what I meant by wet. You gotta keep it oiled. I oiled my piston gun generously the night before a range day. At the end of that range day my piston BCG was still nice and oily wet. It never absorbed heat and never had a chance to "cook off" any of the oil because there was no hot propellant gases and carbon fouling dumping onto it all day. How is that not a good thing?

Piston systems use more parts which is just more to break? In some systems maybe but not all. Here is my piston system. Count the parts that are solely piston related. Theres 7.
Black Rifle Forum

Now count each and every d.i. part that is solely d.i. related. Theres 8.
Black Rifle Forum

My piston gun has equal or less parts than my d.i. gun. Myth busted there I'd say?



Piston guns are heavier than d.i. guns. My piston gun weighs 6lbs 9oz. Colt AR's (for example) can weigh 5.5lbs to 8.5lbs depending on what parts they use to build it. Clearly 6lbs 9oz is not significantly heavier than a d.i. In fact my piston gun is lighter than the rifle I carried when I was active duty.

Piston guns arent as accurate as d.i. guns. My BZO with irons is 200 yards. I dare any bad guy to walk into my killzone and test out the infamous myth of piston guns being less accurate. Look, my rifle is no bullseye competitor. Thats not what I want or need it to do. I am not a bench shooter so I have no need to put a hole inside of a hole. If you need to do that then get a gun designed to do that. I'll be the first to tell you my piston gun isnt designed to do that. Get the right tool for the job as they say.

My piston gun comes with a lifetime warranty. Does your d.i? Not many guns today, piston or d.i. offer that kind of warranty. I picked mine because of the lifetime warranty, its light weight, it robust simple piston design and its price point of $1000. I am creeping up on almost 2k of ammo through my piston gun with "zero" malfunctions. I wouldnt trust my life to any gun that didnt pass my personal tests d.i or piston. This gun passes.

No its not perfect, no its not mil-spec, but it works for me. I could care less that alot of people dont like piston guns but please dont spread misinformation on piston guns just to push your agenda and bias. Please use facts to bash piston guns..not emotion. On that note, stay safe and have a nice day.

P.S. I should be happy people hate on gas piston guns so it will drive the demand and price way down. Yeah piston guns suck. Do not believe any of what I just posted lol!!!

Last edited by mixflip; 02-12-2011 at 20:27..
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Old 02-12-2011, 20:55   #34
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As an owner of both DI's and Pistons I would have to say I like them both. I like my GI's because of their proven reliability and like my Pistons because all it takes is a quick wipe down and they are clean. It really just depends on what you want it for. Here's a chart of DI's, hope this helps. Scroll down for the chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...=5&output=html
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:27   #35
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I own both....3 LWRC's and 2 Noveske's, and they both work. The "gimmick" thing is ridiculous (no offense gentlemen, but the "gimmick" thing was relevant 2 or 3 years ago, not any longer.....because the piston was newer and if I had to guess most of you claiming the "gimmick" thing are over the age of 40 and very skeptical to anything new for your trusty DI AR's) OP you should go with what options YOU prefer. That is what it's all about.....OPTIONS! Here is an extensive review on an older LWRC rifle, before any of the new OPTIONS (which are now standard) were available on their rifles.

http://forum.lwrci.com/newforum/view...hp?f=11&t=7039


I've only owned and shot LWRC's, so I can't speak for any other piston AR's. I have an M6A2 with the older 2 piece carrier with over 7,000 rounds through it, and it has no carrier tilt issues, and the accuracy is close to my Noveske's (for what I do with them, no bench shooting for me). With that being said, I'm not against DI either. Both of my Noveske's have been flawless, and I'm looking to get a BCM gov't 20" upper. Go with either/or...and you'll be a happy camper! sheeeshhh....
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:59   #36
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LWRC is the best way to go if going the piston route.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:11   #37
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Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
Piston systems use more parts which is just more to break? In some systems maybe but not all. Here is my piston system. Count the parts that are solely piston related. Theres 7.
Black Rifle Forum

Now count each and every d.i. part that is solely d.i. related. Theres 8.
Black Rifle Forum

My piston gun has equal or less parts than my d.i. gun. Myth busted there I'd say? How do you figure less?



Piston guns are heavier than d.i. guns. My piston gun weighs 6lbs 9oz. Colt AR's (for example) can weigh 5.5lbs to 8.5lbs depending on what parts they use to build it. Clearly 6lbs 9oz is not significantly heavier than a d.i. In fact my piston gun is lighter than the rifle I carried when I was active duty.

Piston guns arent as accurate as d.i. guns. My BZO with irons is 200 yards. I dare any bad guy to walk into my killzone and test out the infamous myth of piston guns being less accurate. Look, my rifle is no bullseye competitor. Thats not what I want or need it to do. I am not a bench shooter so I have no need to put a hole inside of a hole. If you need to do that then get a gun designed to do that. I'll be the first to tell you my piston gun isnt designed to do that. Get the right tool for the job as they say.

My piston gun comes with a lifetime warranty. Does your d.i? Not many guns today, piston or d.i. offer that kind of warranty. I picked mine because of the lifetime warranty, its light weight, it robust simple piston design and its price point of $1000. I am creeping up on almost 2k of ammo through my piston gun with "zero" malfunctions. I wouldnt trust my life to any gun that didnt pass my personal tests d.i or piston. This gun passes.

No its not perfect, no its not mil-spec, but it works for me. I could care less that alot of people dont like piston guns but please dont spread misinformation on piston guns just to push your agenda and bias. Please use facts to bash piston guns..not emotion. On that note, stay safe and have a nice day.

P.S. I should be happy people hate on gas piston guns so it will drive the demand and price way down. Yeah piston guns suck. Do not believe any of what I just posted lol!!!
My point was there is no military specifications for a piston system, if you really want to split hairs, top teir manufacturers are mil spec, BUT they modify the fcg to ar so yea their no longer milspec, my other point is if you break a piston part, you have to go the manufacturerer of your piston system, you just cant get what ever from where ever. Oiling you still need to throw a shot or should before going shooting reguardless if its piston or di. Hey I own a piston, also own di's. all I'm saying is the piston brings nothing more to the table other than easier cleaning
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Old 02-13-2011, 18:38   #38
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I agree 100% if a BCG or OP rod breaks I do have to go to the specific manufacturer for replacement parts since not everyone makes a standard piston BCG and op rod.

But I still want to know how many broken BCG's have you ever personally seen or even heard of? Do BCG's really break that often? How many op rods in any piston gun break? On any piston platform for that matter??? I am not claiming they will never break but in reality...of all the parts that could break on a gun those 2 parts are way low on the list of "commonly broken" parts. Thats all I am saying.

When I see top tier companies like H&K and Colt and Remington and Sabre Defense and Barrett and KAC etc etc all making a piston AR's... I can no longer agree that piston AR's are just a "gimmick" and they dont bring anything more than just a "clean chamber" to the table.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Both have their strength and weakness's. There is no such thing as a perfect do-it-all gun.

Last edited by mixflip; 02-13-2011 at 18:41..
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Old 02-13-2011, 20:11   #39
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I agree 100% if a BCG or OP rod breaks I do have to go to the specific manufacturer for replacement parts since not everyone makes a standard piston BCG and op rod.

But I still want to know how many broken BCG's have you ever personally seen or even heard of? Do BCG's really break that often? How many op rods in any piston gun break? On any piston platform for that matter??? I am not claiming they will never break but in reality...of all the parts that could break on a gun those 2 parts are way low on the list of "commonly broken" parts. Thats all I am saying.

When I see top tier companies like H&K and Colt and Remington and Sabre Defense and Barrett and KAC etc etc all making a piston AR's... I can no longer agree that piston AR's are just a "gimmick" and they dont bring anything more than just a "clean chamber" to the table.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Both have their strength and weakness's. There is no such thing as a perfect do-it-all gun.

True! Colt did look into a piston back in the 70's or 80's I cant remember exactly when, they actually built up a few of them, the problem was they didnt increase reliabilty enough to justify them. The reason now is pure financial, its to get more sales. The bolt carrier does not know if its hot gas, a piston or a hammer for that matter, point is the M16/AR platforms number one cause of malfunctions is bad magazines, folled by worn extractors, debris problems are cuased by its tighter tollarances which effects both DI's and Pistons, the only way around that is a new platform aka the SCAR, ACR.

Last edited by mstennes; 02-13-2011 at 20:13..
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Old 02-13-2011, 20:22   #40
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People always try to claim a Piston AR is more reliable than a DI, well to be honest its BS, they always claim the AK is sooooo reliable, well it is, but it was designed a piston, but the key reason its so reliable, is it is made with loose tollarances. The bolt carrier does not know if its being hit with a piston, a hammer or a shot of gas. The AR has very tight tollarances, and needs lubed, pure and simple, remember when POF ran their ads about not needing as much? Well they discovered increased wear, on all their surfaces where steel met aluminum (bolt carrier and upper). If you still have any questions on reliabilty or durability, http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vsp...hy14_oct10.pdf "Filthey 14". All the pistons bring to the AR table, is a gimmick, and a way to sell more AR's in a flooded market.

ETA, break a piston, you will need manufacturer specific parts to get it back up and running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqRwx4wtmms

Just found this vid interesting. Nothing more.
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Old 02-13-2011, 22:59   #41
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I just found this interesting too...nothing more...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gHIJQoQP3A

And this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koW5Q6y_iCc

Last edited by mixflip; 02-13-2011 at 22:59..
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Old 02-13-2011, 23:28   #42
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the M16/AR platforms number one cause of malfunctions is bad magazines, folled by worn extractors, debris problems are cuased by its tighter tollarances
So,carbon fouling does not build up under the extractor and cause failures to extract on d.i. guns? Its gotta be something else?

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Old 02-13-2011, 23:50   #43
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All AR15 piston systems are add ons, most are copies of the Armalite AR180 system with a little tweak here or there. They add some weight to the rifle. If I was going to choose one I would choose one with a 1 piece carrier and a pinned gas block or I did choose a SCAR over every high priced AR with a add on piston system. I think I would even choose my $700 Armalite AR180 over most of the piston rifles on the market.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:21   #44
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If I was going to choose one I would choose one with a 1 piece carrier and a pinned gas block...
Its been about 3 years now that gas piston AR's have been on the market. Integral one piece impact shoulders on the BCG and double taper pinned gas blocks are pretty much the gold standard now.

Even the old Adams Arms retrofit kit has updated to double taper pins vs their old hex head bolt system of attaching. And Osprey no longer uses a gas key adapter/impact shoulder anymore. Everybody machines their BCG with an integral impact shoulder now. Dare I say...its standardized for the most part?

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Old 02-14-2011, 09:07   #45
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Its been about 3 years now that gas piston AR's have been on the market. Integral one piece impact shoulders on the BCG and double taper pinned gas blocks are pretty much the gold standard now.

Even the old Adams Arms retrofit kit has updated to double taper pins vs their old hex head bolt system of attaching. And Osprey no longer uses a gas key adapter/impact shoulder anymore. Everybody machines their BCG with an integral impact shoulder now. Dare I say...its standardized for the most part?
Can you mix and match piston parts from different manufacturers? Hey I said I have a piston LWRC, bought to see the hoopla, I didnt see any. If I want a piston again in 223/556 it will be a SCAR or ACR or XCR.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:10   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
So,carbon fouling does not build up under the extractor and cause failures to extract on d.i. guns? Its gotta be something else?
You will wear a extractor out or experiance spring failure before carbon buildup will cause a failure.

Last edited by mstennes; 02-14-2011 at 09:11..
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:24   #47
Longbow
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All right, I'm going piston for my build. Unless the DI AR's can be cleaned by just peeing on it, I think piston upper is the way to go.

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Old 02-14-2011, 12:52   #48
mixflip
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Originally Posted by mstennes View Post
Can you mix and match piston parts from different manufacturers? Hey I said I have a piston LWRC, bought to see the hoopla, I didnt see any. If I want a piston again in 223/556 it will be a SCAR or ACR or XCR.
I dont know since I have never tried it? That would make for a really good review video if I could find a few guys that are willing to let me use their guns? I have personally handled several piston BCG's (Stag, HK, Sabre Defense and Remington at Shot Show, to name a few) and I have to admit, while they are not technically standardized, they did look identical as far as the BCG.

The piston op rods were all different though. Some had AK style op rods while others had a spring cup design (like your LWRC which I am not a fan of that design for my own reasons)

I really hate getting into these di vs piston debates because no one ever wins. As a matter of fact I am not even trying to win...I am merely trying to clear up some of the false information and hate hype about piston guns.

Piston AR's arent better, they just have a different set of issues and thats where the preferences will be decided.

Last edited by mixflip; 02-14-2011 at 13:00..
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:57   #49
mixflip
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Originally Posted by mstennes View Post
You will wear a extractor out or experiance spring failure before carbon buildup will cause a failure.
Is that a guaranteed fact?

Look if you want to play that game then I could say that you will die of old age before a gas piston BCG or op rod breaks?

This will just go round and round all day if we dont use facts. (btw, I think your spell check is not working lol. I noticed your spelling is distracting, no offense.)

Last edited by mixflip; 02-14-2011 at 20:48..
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Old 02-14-2011, 13:20   #50
edrobert
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Originally Posted by wolf19r View Post
So what type of lube is best on DI guns? Grease, just standard gun oil, etc...?
Trust me when I tell you the best lube is Synthetic Motor Oil......stays where you put it and doesn't burn off like CLP.
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