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Old 01-05-2011, 06:33   #201
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Originally Posted by glockpacker View Post
Tell you what, Doby-do...

I've been shooting 600 and 1,000 yard matches for five years, including state, regional, and national championships. And I've won at least one state and one regional match. For 1,000 yards, the .284 Winchester caliber has taken over the F-open class, and the .308 is used for F-Target Rifle class. I haven't personally seen anyone shooting a .223 at a 1,000 yard match.

The .223 AR-15 is often used at 300- and 600-yards for F-Target Rifle, and can rule if the wind is light. But if the winds stiffen up, then the .308 with 175-grain and heavier bullets rule. I shoot in the Tennessee/ North Carolina and south area. Perhaps you've been shooting in a different area than I do.

The AR-15's need at least a 20- inch Heavy Barrel to be competitive. On mine I have a 26-inch, 1 in 7 twist, match barrel from White Oak Armory, and in light wind, it's deadly at 600.

If we get in a shooting war, I'd prefer to shoot my .284 from the roof of my 12-story building at 1,000 or so yards. I'll let you youngsters run around with your AR's and do the dirty work on the ground.

AND YES, the word NEED has NOTHING to do with firearms and ammunition.

The word WANT RULES!!!
F-class ≠ Service rifle
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:21   #202
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i have shot in service rifle competitions since 1988. the reason many shooters switched to the ar15 is because it wont kick you out of position during the rapid fire stages like the 30 calibers will. the average shooter can do much better with the ar. the military likes em because they dont have the bedding issues the m-14 does. a tuned m-14 however was always capable of clean scores at all competitve distances. in fact i believe the m-14 was back in the winners circle at 1000 yards at camp perry last year
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:47   #203
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Originally Posted by silverado_mick View Post
So...this Gen wants the Army infantry to be trained and equipped like...Marines???

If a bunch of jerkoff 18 year olds can be taught to make hits at 500yards with iron sight equipped (not to mention beat on) M16A2's consistently in under two weeks time, I'd say that's a pretty powerful argument for the capability of the current US issue BATTLE RIFLE. The M16A4 is NOT a Vietnam era is a truly capable main battle rifle regardless of chambering.

The Army's mistake was issuing an M4 to everydamnbody instead of on a case by case or unit by unit basis. I'd say that an Army grunt could benefit from an A4 just like a Marine grunt does, provided he receives proper marksmanship instruction.

In the end, if SHTF blah blah blah...a lot of people who spent a lot of time stocking up for the occasion are going to come to the startling realization that it's the tactics of the user and not the tools of the trade that make the biggest difference. Simply owning a scoped .308 and shooting tight groups at a grand does not make you combat effective.

When I went thru Infantry School at Ft.Benning, we were issued A4's, but that was several years ago.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:59   #204
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Originally Posted by .45Super-Man View Post
I think the MBR comes into its own if you're talking about one rifle to do everything. The ability to hunt or take out a threat at 500+yds is where the MBR has an advantage over the AK or AR.
thats not a mbr, thats a sniper rifle.....anything in war at 500 yards and further is usually handled by snipers or 50's
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