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Old 05-06-2010, 10:08   #41
Natty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
War is Hell -William Tecumseh Sherman
"There is a class of people men, women and children, [of the South] who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

...William T Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton.

If anyone wants to idolize cold blooded murderers and Terrorists so be it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:09   #42
marksiwel
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Originally Posted by Mushinto View Post
I don't know which came first, the left hating that flag or the ****** bag racist morons using that flag as a symbol. I think this one was first

Either way, the symbol is pretty much ruined which is a shame.

The swastika was originally (among other things) a Japanese religious symbol. After the Nazis hijacked it, even the Japs stopped displaying it in the West (after losing the war).

Like it or not, no matter which side is to blame, that flag currently symbolizes hate and slavery to most people.

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Basically yeah. There are better symbols that are less controversial
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:10   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
Yep. I have no problem with the Flag as it was, but basically its been warped in such a way that its no longer viable for me to use/wear it to express the point I was hoping for.

I just use the Texas Flag, or the American flag, or the Dont Tread on Me, or Come and Take it.
Sadly the CSA Flag is retired as a symbol for me.

There are better movements for "States Rights" then the CSA Battle-flag that dredge up America's darkest period and its most evil institution.
I'll agree with the "darkest period" part, but as ugly as slavery was, I'd still have to rank the legitimized genocide of most of America's native population to support a land-grab as our most 'evil institution'.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:10   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natty View Post
"There is a class of people men, women and children, [of the South] who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

...William T Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton.

If anyone wants to idolize cold blooded murderers and Terrorists so be it.
oh he was a jackass alright, no doubt about it.
But hey, he got the job done right?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:10   #45
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http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/fea..._proclamation/


Quote:
The Emancipation Proclamation
President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, as the nation approached its third year of bloody civil war. The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory.

Although the Emancipation Proclamation did not end slavery in the nation, it captured the hearts and imagination of millions of Americans and fundamentally transformed the character of the war. After January 1, 1863, every advance of federal troops expanded the domain of freedom. Moreover, the Proclamation announced the acceptance of black men into the Union Army and Navy, enabling the liberated to become liberators. By the end of the war, almost 200,000 black soldiers and sailors had fought for the Union and freedom.

From the first days of the Civil War, slaves had acted to secure their own liberty. The Emancipation Proclamation confirmed their insistence that the war for the Union must become a war for freedom. It added moral force to the Union cause and strengthened the Union both militarily and politically. As a milestone along the road to slavery's final destruction, the Emancipation Proclamation has assumed a place among the great documents of human freedom.

The original of the Emancipation Proclamation of January 1, 1863, is in the National Archives in Washington, DC. With the text covering five pages the document was originally tied with narrow red and blue ribbons, which were attached to the signature page by a wafered impression of the seal of the United States. Most of the ribbon remains; parts of the seal are still decipherable, but other parts have worn off.

The document was bound with other proclamations in a large volume preserved for many years by the Department of State. When it was prepared for binding, it was reinforced with strips along the center folds and then mounted on a still larger sheet of heavy paper. Written in red ink on the upper right-hand corner of this large sheet is the number of the Proclamation, 95, given to it by the Department of State long after it was signed. With other records, the volume containing the Emancipation Proclamation was transferred in 1936 from the Department of State to the National Archives of the United States.
For all those who think slavery ended when the war did.

Slavery was not outlawed till December 6, 1865, with the adoption of the 13th amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was signed Jan 1, 1863.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:13   #46
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
Under which flag was there slavery for 90 years?

Under which flag was there slavery for 4 years?
Not to mention, under which flag was slavery made illegal last? Hint: it wasn't the CSA.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:13   #47
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The Furball Forum

So Marksiwel, do you hate the American flag too?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:13   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
Shouldnt the Germans be proud that someone stood up for them and cast aside the unfair shackles of the Treaty of Versailles, helping make Germany Great again?
I mean if we can ignore Slavery in the CSA, then we can ignore the Holocaust right?
Slavery was not what the war was fought over or about.

There is absolutely no way I can un-teach what years of public education has drilled into you. I won't even try.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:13   #49
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Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
Does anyone else find it odd that none of these guys making the slavery argument has said anything about the North owning slaves as well?
Slavery was not just something that occurred in the south.
They cant face the truth about slavery in the North for 200 years going back to the Colonial days and still having slavery in the Union States after all the Confederate slaves were free.

They cant even answer simple questions I posted in post #23 and #31.

Last edited by Natty; 05-06-2010 at 10:14..
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:14   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natty View Post
"There is a class of people men, women and children, [of the South] who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

...William T Sherman in a June 21, 1864, letter to Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton.

If anyone wants to idolize cold blooded murderers and Terrorists so be it.
What he meant was that there was a class of free people in the South who must be killed or banished before you can hope to institutionalize the primacy of the federal government and it's thirst for taxes over the liberty of the individual.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:15   #51
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Originally Posted by Berto View Post
The Furball Forum

So Marksiwel, do you hate the American flag too?
No more than I hate the CSA Flag.
I dont hate it, its just doesnt mean what I used to mean. SO I dont use it.
I used to have a shirt with the CSA flag on it. Stopped wearing it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:16   #52
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Surprise...

Famous Union Generals Grant and Sherman were slave owners.

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Old 05-06-2010, 10:19   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
No more than I hate the CSA Flag.
I dont hate it, its just doesnt mean what I used to mean. SO I dont use it.
I used to have a shirt with the CSA flag on it. Stopped wearing it.
That's an interesting answer.
I don't tend to let others determine what a flag's meaning should be. I think for myself.
I have no problem with the Confederate Flag, and I'm from the PNW.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:20   #54
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Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Slavery was not what the war was fought over or about.

There is absolutely no way I can un-teach what years of public education has drilled into you. I won't even try.
CSA Constitution

4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

and
3. The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.
Oh look they wanted to expand slavery into new "States"

Sorry but there is no way I can deprogram you from all the Nonsense you have learned.
States Rights as in, Slavery. You can dress it up anyway you want but its slavery

What other STATEs Rights were the CSA fighting for? How were they being repressed by the rest of the USA? ANYONE?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:22   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
CSA Constitution

4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

and
3. The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.
Oh look they wanted to expand slavery into new "States"

Sorry but there is no way I can deprogram you from all the Nonsense you have learned.
States Rights as in, Slavery. You can dress it up anyway you want but its slavery


What other STATEs Rights were the CSA fighting for? How were they being repressed by the rest of the USA? ANYONE?
We'll let that be your little secret.
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Last edited by syntaxerrorsix; 05-06-2010 at 10:23..
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:22   #56
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When I first moved to Florida, I put a confederate flag license plate on the front of my car because I'd seen other people do it, it looked cool and I'd always seen myself as somewhat of a rebel.

A few months later, I was riding with a black officer and stopped by my house for something. He saw the car and went batsht. I never realized that the flag provoked such a reaction from some people.

I took it off. I didn't need anyone making assumptions about me based on a symbol that had no real meaning for me.

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Old 05-06-2010, 10:22   #57
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Mark, I'm not saying that the CSA didn't want to keep slavery, I'm just saying the North didn't really want to stop it either, at least, their intent going in wasn't to stop it.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:23   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berto View Post
That's an interesting answer.
I don't tend to let others determine what a flag's meaning should be. I think for myself.
I have no problem with the Confederate Flag, and I'm from the PNW.
Thats it, I must be a mindless sheeple who cant think for himself.
So when you see the Swastika you dont think Nazi you think Eastern Symbol right ?

Why do you display symbols? To express an idea to others
The CSA flag as the public sees it now no longer represents the idea I wish to display.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:23   #59
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Originally Posted by CLena88 View Post
Mark, I'm not saying that the CSA didn't want to keep slavery, I'm just saying the North didn't really want to stop it either, at least, their intent going in wasn't to stop it.
and we are in agreement.

Now why did the South leave? Other than slavery. In real terms not "The man was messing with them" why did they leave?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:26   #60
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This is probably the most ignorant post I have ever seen on GlockTalk. You should be ashamed of yourself.

PB
well he is somewhat right although it wasnt the csa bringing them over it was white and black people in general for 200 years prior to the war of northern aggression. If their ancestors hadnt been brought here they would be in africa starving and dying of aids right now. My ancestors came over here not as slaves but as subjects to a tyrant. Had they not come over i would probably be in Ulster Ireland. I would rather be here so i am thankfull. My 4xgreat grandfather was a captain in 3rd MS Cavalry 3rd regiment and was a slave owner. Was slavery right? No. Was it nessessary to the south's economy? Yes. It happened learn from it but leave it in the past where it belongs. My ancestor served under that flag and lost a son to yankees at Vicksburg. I fly and honor the Confederate flag its my way of honoring my family, my ancestors and my herritige
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Last edited by glock_19guy1983; 05-06-2010 at 10:29..
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