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Originally Posted by cjlandry
Stupid is supposed to be fatal, but we spend countless resources to protect idiots from being the cause of their own demise. Occasionally, a ray of sunshine comes through and stupid manages to do the job it was designed for.
Does the word witness mean anything to you at all. There are witness's to yesterdays events. Now I suppose one could go back to the beginning of time and dispute anything that was ever said but what we are talking about in this thread is yesterdays tradgedy at Ft. Hood.
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Those with the tools, make the rules.
In what way is the Fort Hood shooter a "representative" of Islam any more than Timothy McVeigh was a "representative" of Christianity?
Why do people assume McVeigh was a Christian? He was agnostic. The reason the media didn't make a big deal about him being a "Christian terrorist" was because he himself said he wasn't Christian. If he was Christian than we would still be hearing about it. Hell, we hear about it now despite the fact he wasn't christian. Now I know there are great people out there who are Muslim. I also know there are nuts out there that will attach themselves to any cause. But I also know the PC police helped this guy kill a lot of people.
The silence of the American Islamic community since 911 is deafening!
They say that the terrorists do not represent Muslims and Islam is
a peaceful religion, yet they consistently turn their backs while their
"representatives" commit evil acts in the name of Islam.
It's past time for the Islamic community to speak up!
Maybe there's a reason they don't?
+1
Talk is cheap. What are they really doing to stand up to the Jihadists?
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"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and infuriates us!"
The resounding argument here seems to be that the muslim community needs to speak out in comdennation of these attacks and terrorism. Some post an article about muslims condemning the attacks and this ideology and others post rebuttles about it. Others speak about good muslim examples, you claim hidden agendas.
Yelling out Allahu Akbar while blasting away has little to do with terrorist battle cry and more to do with religious ritual. As a muslim, I'm pretty sur he made the statement and this is why...
First, saying this isn't related to a war cry like most of you believe. The reason you associate it to this is because all these morons that go out blazing say it.
Second, the reason that you hear it has more to do with religious ritual for the dying or the one that is anticipating dying. For example - a person in a plane plummeting to the earth, a person in a sinking ship, an individual on a death bed, etc.
It's sort of a dying ritual. So yes you'll hear crazies before they go out in a blaze of glory or blow themselves to bits chanting this among other things but not because that's what terrorist are supposed to say but because they believe they are going to die and want to make peace with god.
Third, I said this before, who cares what he yells? Would it really change anyone's view if he yelled franks and beans while blasting away.
He's still muslim, he's still crazy, we still have murder and we still have all of us arguing.
All the muslims I know have been condemning the attack except a group outside of a mosque in NY who was actually celebrating and chanting a bunch of hate radical crap.
The mosque called called the police and the FBI, guess what 1st amnd freedoms.
But every one will focus on these turd burglars and not the mosque leader that called the FBI or everyone else condemning the attacks.
One thing that Europe has over us in free speech is that you can say what you want all day long, but when your speech insights racial/religious hate then it's a crime.
All the muslims I know have been condemning the attack except a group outside of a mosque in NY who was actually celebrating and chanting a bunch of hate radical crap.
The mosque called called the police and the FBI, guess what 1st amnd freedoms.
But every one will focus on these turd burglars and not the mosque leader that called the FBI or everyone else out condemning the attacks.
I mean this as a sincere question, because I, personally, don't know much about the modern-day customs of most religions (heck, even the one I think of as my own).
Do those types face any sort of social stigma amongst the community for their chanting, their celebration, etc? Does a religious leader (the leader of that mosque, who called the police on them) have the power to stigmatize them in any way, to refuse them access to his mosque in the future, to spread the word about them to nearby mosques and refuse them access?
Ultimately -- NYPD or FBI or whoever else aside -- what consequences might they face for their actions, within their own community? Is there something like an "excommunication" that might be the result of disrespecting a religious leader in that way, shaming their local church, or what-have-you?
What can the good Muslims out there actually do about the Muslims giving them a bad name, in other words? And if they CAN do it, ARE they doing it?
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"Pioneers! O, pioneers! Come, my tan faced children, follow well in order, get your weapons ready, have you your pistols? Have you your sharp-edged axes? Pioneers! O, pioneers!"
--Walt Whitman
<======== unimpressed by Muslim's condemnations of terrorism over the past 3 decades.
<======== even less impressed by Muslim's condemnations of terrorism since 9/11
text]]
+1
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The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol, are you expecting trouble?" "No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."
Yes, the imam can and has barred them from entry into the mosque.
When I lived in NY back in 92, and I was on a mosque security detail, we would pick these crazy fools up and physically through them out. Back then it wasn't anti America stuff though, they would argue with the imam about some cultural detail or tradition. They would be banned and the word would get out about them to the neighboring mosques.
We called them the "fitnah" or confusion makers.
As far as legal action, there is a very fine line btw harrassment or defamation and free speech and these guys know it.
It's really sad that the country they hate grants them the most freedom. No other country tolerates this kind of talk. Especially Muslim countries. Look at what they do to the people that speak out in Iran, not at all in the least saying that we should go that route but just as an example.
I posted this on another site earlier, and people asked me why this was my first response to the tragedy.
Of course, my prayers and sympathy go out to the families and soldiers hurt or killed in the incident. Unfortunately, posting to that effect does little to actually improve their situation.
On the other hand, I have been absolutely terrified and embarrassed by the number of my friends posting violent, hate-filled and racist comments about Muslims and people of Arabic descent.
Muslim's risked their lives to save victims of the 9/11 attacks, and Muslim's put their lives on the line, as U.S. soldiers, every single day.
By reminding justifiably frightened and angry people that Muslims and terrorists are not the same thing, there's a chance that fewer innocent people will be discriminated against, harassed, and even killed.
I agree with you and I think that it's important for the Muslim community to be very out spoken in their opposition to extremist and fundamentalist thought. The Muslim community cannot be silent on these types of actions taken by people of their faith. Doing so makes them all look sympathetic and complicit. Muslims, world wide need to do more to speak out, condemn and take action against terrorism done under the name is Islam. If not, this will end badly for many, many Muslims who are innocent of any wrongdoing. The ball is in your court.
Why would "U.S. Muslim's" need to condem the attack, unless they felt threatened or somewhat responsible in some shape or form? I can grasp the concept, but cannot seem to grasp the true necessity or value of the action (made by so many other 'groups' in other circumstances).
I guess we (gun owners/enthusiests/2A soldiers) do the same when some nut goes on a shooting spree.
The silence of the American Islamic community since 911 is deafening!
They say that the terrorists do not represent Muslims and Islam is
a peaceful religion, yet they consistently turn their backs while their
"representatives" commit evil acts in the name of Islam.
It's past time for the Islamic community to speak up!
Maybe there's a reason they don't?
You hit it right on the head!
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If it's not the TRUTH, it is just another WRONG opinion.
Is there anything along the lines of "excommunication" as in christian/catholic faith (sorry, I'm not sure about the proper association).
Or in other words, is "Islam" a faith that one belongs to, or is it innate in all "Muslim's", or those who choose the faith (or does the 'faith' choose you)?
Oh, and I can't assume you know so I have to ask (though you are obviously not obligated to answer), are you "Muslim" or 'of Islam'?
It's really sad that the country they hate grants them the most freedom. No other country tolerates this kind of talk. Especially Muslim countries. Look at what they do to the people that speak out in Iran, not at all in the least saying that we should go that route but just as an example.
This is why Sharia law must be opposed in the West.
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Finally, if you have a rampaging mob, it would behoove you to find out why they're rampaging.
Despots, Kings, and tyrants don't care. Presidents should care a LOT. - Tommy21
FWIW, Timothy McVeigh was an Irish Catholic, Republican and member of the NRA, and a decorated veteran of the US Army. Yet we don't hold any of those organizations responsible for his actions.
Let there be no doubt that the Council on American-Islamic Relations
is a terrorist supporting front organization that is partially funded
by terrorists, and that CAIR wishes nothing more than the
implementation of Sharia Law in America.
CAIR has proven links to, and was founded by, Islamic Terrorists.
CAIR actively supports terrorists and terrorist-supporting
groups and nations.
CAIR is an organization founded by Hamas supporters which seeks
to overthrow Constitutional government in the United States
and replace it with an Islamist theocracy using our own
Constitution as protection.
CAIR was started by Hamas members and is supported by
terrorist supporting individuals, groups and countries.
CAIR is not in the United States to promote the civil rights of Muslims. CAIR is here to make radical Islam the dominant religion in the
United States and convert our country into an Islamic theocracy.
CAIR receives direct funding from Islamic terrorist
supporting countries.
I am so sick and tired of hearing and being force-fed the kool-aid that Islam is a religion of peace.
CAIR is noting less than an organization that supports terrorism. They put a "nice" face on their organization, but it is pretty easy to see through them.
Of course most Muslims cause no problems. They have to blend in.
If it is a religion of peace who do you not see their leadership (not the CAIR talking heads) out condemning not only this latest act, but all the others that this religion has committed.
Peaceful? No. A religion of terrorist and murderers? Yes.
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"They were paratroopers. Normally great, in adversity they are magnificient."
FWIW, Timothy McVeigh was an Irish Catholic, Republican and member of the NRA, and a decorated veteran of the US Army. Yet we don't hold any of those organizations responsible for his actions.
Because he did not act in the name of his religion.
There was no evidence that he shouted out "God Is Great" in Gaelic as the Federal Building was destroyed.
His actions were not in line with any of the groups you mentioned, but Islam orders its followers to kill non-believers.
Nice try.....no cigar......
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"They were paratroopers. Normally great, in adversity they are magnificient."
Make sure you buy the koran as well, so you can read "from the source" and not just what the author of the book says. You will be amazed at what they believe.
Did you know that the "prophet" commands that three things can be done to a non-muslim in a muslim country (they want us to be a muslim country)
1. Convert them. If they refuse to convert to Islam you can......
2. Tax them. The Koran goes on to describe how the tax should be collected in a way to humiliate the person
3. Enslave or Kill them. Ever hear of the Sudan? Haji will not even let the Christians there convert because they make money from the tax and get free labor.
I can not make this stuff up folks.
Avoid the Politically correct Kool-aid at all costs.
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"They were paratroopers. Normally great, in adversity they are magnificient."
Why do people assume McVeigh was a Christian? He was agnostic. The reason the media didn't make a big deal about him being a "Christian terrorist" was because he himself said he wasn't Christian. If he was Christian than we would still be hearing about it. Hell, we hear about it now despite the fact he wasn't christian. Now I know there are great people out there who are Muslim. I also know there are nuts out there that will attach themselves to any cause. But I also know the PC police helped this guy kill a lot of people.
There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between being a member of a particular organization or group and committing a terrorist act and committing the same act in the name of that group.
When some whack-job blows up an abortion clinic or kills an abortionist, he or she may be catholic, baptist, fundamentalist or whatever...... that may or may not have anything to do with their religion directly. No official in the Catholic Church would ever support killing an abortionist. Haji will jump with glee whenever somebody who opposes Islam (even a perceived slight against the religion)...hell you can't make a political cartoon against these ass clowns without the threat of death coming from religious leaders in the muslim world.
I am not calling for violence against Haji here in the U.S. I am calling for VIGILANCE though.
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"They were paratroopers. Normally great, in adversity they are magnificient."
Is there anything along the lines of "excommunication" as in christian/catholic faith (sorry, I'm not sure about the proper association).
Or in other words, is "Islam" a faith that one belongs to, or is it innate in all "Muslim's", or those who choose the faith (or does the 'faith' choose you)?
Oh, and I can't assume you know so I have to ask (though you are obviously not obligated to answer), are you "Muslim" or 'of Islam'?
Thanks.
Nope. There is no way to leave the religion. If you chose to leave you will be killed. If you do something bad enough to get kicked out....you are killed.
Nice peaceful group huh???
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"They were paratroopers. Normally great, in adversity they are magnificient."
He is not!
But millions of people erroneously believe he is, and the number is growing.
The American Muslim community needs to send a loud and clear message
that they do not condone terrorism and terrorist acts.
I don't understand why this hasn't already been done?
Why do they need to?
It is probably less than 1% (remember there are 1.3 billion of them)of the Islam community that actually engages in terrorist acts. So why should everyone else have to apologize for the 1% of idiots that take things to far?
I don't apologize to black people for slavery because I had nothing to do with it. Thats the best analogy I can think of right now..... I am tired.
Bottom line is anyone who hates the Islam community because "THEY'RE ALL TERRISTS OMG" is just either an idiot or doesn't actually know what to think or want to take the time to find out so they just use the shortcut "glass the middle east" line of thinking.
When are you people going to figure out that the muslims will NOT stop until they are dead!!!! They want no peace and will only temporarily capitulate if it helps further their cause long term. They do not stop until you are converted or DEAD! There is no 'getting along', living with others, or peaceful co-existance.
The quicker WE figure this out, vehemently defend our Christianity, culture and values the quicker we can move in a peaceful direction. This will cause PEOPLE TO DIE! The problem is people are going to die anyway since they have to convert us or kill us. The islams are at war with us, but we are unaware there is even a war. Why? We have Idol, the big O, and football. Our shelves are still full, beer cold, and lights are on....
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