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Old 02-15-2014, 18:12   #1
RWBlue
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Confederate Sympathizers

It appears that we have several people who are Confederate Sympathizers on this board. They believe Lincoln was wrong in keeping the nation together.



Isn't it unAmerican to be a Confederate Sympathizer?





For those born in the south, I mean if the Confederates were successful, you wouldn't be an American. If you were lucky, you would be a confederate. If you were unlucky, you could be Mexican or a German or....
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:29   #2
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:30   #3
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Here we go...
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:30   #4
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I am not a confederate sympathizer. However, "I get it." to a degree.

The first issue is, people have to realize that the issue is a lot larger than "Slavery." Even if that is the driving issue that makes anything "Confederate" a tainted issue.

People today are not advocating a return to plantations and slavery. There is so much more to it. It is an issue of liberty and community. The idea of states rights and communities generally built on *Christian" principles.

Again, I get it. I don't agree with all of it because I think even they don't understand liberty...because they are advocating their beliefs...or you can suck it...which is what they hate about what they think is suppressing them. (Some liberal, gay, whatever agenda....)

BTW, the Confederacy was successful. Just like Iceland is successful....they just couldn't win a war with a much better armed opponent. Loss in a war doesn't correlate to a successful system of government or not, it just mean you lost a war.


Let me pose a fairly rational question. What if Lincoln would not waged war? Slavery would have ended anyways. (not an excuse) it was a doomed institution. The theories as to what would have happened are never ending but one thought is the north would have collapsed under it liberal weight a lot sooner (as it has done in a lot of cases) without the south to buoy it in a lot of ways, the North and South might have reconciled on pretty peaceful/economic terms without the loss of so many people.
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Old 02-15-2014, 21:22   #5
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I am not a confederate sympathizer. However, "I get it." to a degree.

The first issue is, people have to realize that the issue is a lot larger than "Slavery." Even if that is the driving issue that makes anything "Confederate" a tainted issue.

People today are not advocating a return to plantations and slavery. There is so much more to it. It is an issue of liberty and community. The idea of states rights and communities generally built on *Christian" principles.

Again, I get it. I don't agree with all of it because I think even they don't understand liberty...because they are advocating their beliefs...or you can suck it...which is what they hate about what they think is suppressing them. (Some liberal, gay, whatever agenda....)

BTW, the Confederacy was successful. Just like Iceland is successful....they just couldn't win a war with a much better armed opponent. Loss in a war doesn't correlate to a successful system of government or not, it just mean you lost a war.


Let me pose a fairly rational question. What if Lincoln would not waged war? Slavery would have ended anyways. (not an excuse) it was a doomed institution. The theories as to what would have happened are never ending but one thought is the north would have collapsed under it liberal weight a lot sooner (as it has done in a lot of cases) without the south to buoy it in a lot of ways, the North and South might have reconciled on pretty peaceful/economic terms without the loss of so many people.
Yes the issue was a lot larger than slavery. Slavery was actually a tertiary issue. The civil war was fought over states rights. In many aspects the Confederacy was right. They were just overpowered by the norths industrial might.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:35   #6
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Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post

Let me pose a fairly rational question. What if Lincoln would not waged war? Slavery would have ended anyways. (not an excuse) it was a doomed institution. The theories as to what would have happened are never ending but one thought is the north would have collapsed under it liberal weight a lot sooner (as it has done in a lot of cases) without the south to buoy it in a lot of ways, the North and South might have reconciled on pretty peaceful/economic terms without the loss of so many people.


Slavery was not a doomed institution in the CSA. It was guaranteed in their constitution that slavery could never be outlawed.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:03   #7
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Slavery was not a doomed institution in the CSA. It was guaranteed in their constitution that slavery could never be outlawed.




I think the Rabbi meant that it was doomed from a moral as well as an economic standpoint, which is correct.


A large majority of the educated Southerners, including Robt. E. Lee, despised slavery, but the bigger issue for them was what to do with millions of manumitted slaves if indeed manumission had been granted without a war.
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:48   #8
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Rabbi, it isn't about the form of gov. It isn't about slavery. It isn't about North Kicking their ancestors *.

It is kind of like the Indians saying they got a raw deal when selling Manhattan and bringing it up every time someone gives then ANYTHING close to the subject. Then, claiming to be Americans. It doesn't really matter if their ancestors got a raw deal or not. IF they want to be an American, fine. It they want to be from whatever tribe and not partake in American, fine.

But this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American. If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:57   #9
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But this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American.
So someone that wants to be called
African-American is neither a African or a American?


And Lincoln didn't give a rat's ass about slavery. He wanted to maintain Federal control over the states.
The civil war was about states rights. Slavery was just a convenient excuse to wage war on the states.

You said it yourself.
Quote:
They believe Lincoln was wrong in keeping the nation together.

.

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Old 02-15-2014, 19:02   #10
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So someone that wants to be called
African-American is neither a African or a American?
If you were born in Africa and moved to America and got citizenship, it is meaningful.

If you were born in America, you are an American. You are not an African American, no matter what the media says.


OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.
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Old 02-15-2014, 19:06   #11
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If you were born in Africa and moved to America and got citizenship, it is meaningful.

If you were born in America, you are an American. You are not an African American, no matter what the media says.


OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.
One of my professors in college was from the Caribbean. She was not an American citizen, yet she had to always check "African-American" on things asking for race.

I don't mind being called white, and most black people don't mind being called black. It's the color of your skin. Ain't nothing you can do about it.
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Old 02-15-2014, 20:39   #12
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If you were born in Africa and moved to America and got citizenship, it is meaningful.

If you were born in America, you are an American. You are not an African American, no matter what the media says.

Or the politicians ...
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:42   #13
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OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.
Real science places the gene pool near the Tigris and Euphrates.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:45   #14
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Real science places the gene pool near the Tigris and Euphrates.
Real science had no consensus as to where on Earth homo sapiens started.
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Old 02-15-2014, 19:22   #15
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And Lincoln didn't give a rat's ass about slavery. He wanted to maintain Federal control over the states.
Lincoln used the slavery issue to manipulate the French into not supporting the Southern rebels, just like they supported the colonist rebels.
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:58   #16
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...this half * stuff sucks. You either ARE or you are NOT an American. If you don't like how things turned out, you could decide to be a traitor to the country you were born into OR you can just leave.
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Old 02-15-2014, 18:59   #17
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Oh boy we haven't had a good civil war thread in a while.
I'll go ahead and throw my bomb.
The resurrection of the South began after the War ended. The outcome was inevitable. The North had the resources and the manpower to crush the rebels.
Southerners had to pretend the war had any real issue other then slavery to honor their relatives who were wounded or perished due to the War. They understood that trying to justify the War and its terrible carnage required a more noble cause then "we just wanted to keep them on the plantation".
Rich mans war-that included northern industrialists and southern plantation owners.
Poor mans fight-all of those farm boys from Ohio, Minnesota, New York, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia who just joined up to get away from the drudgery of the farm.
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Old 02-15-2014, 19:04   #18
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Oh boy we haven't had a good civil war thread in a while.
It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.
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Old 02-15-2014, 19:06   #19
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It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.
If history on GT is an indicator, it will become one.
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Old 02-15-2014, 19:41   #20
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It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.
I was born in America and the confederacy doesn't exist anymore. That is no reason I can't wish it was still around and realize there isn't a confederacy to move to. You don't have to be very smart to figure that out, unless you are just being intentionally dense.
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