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Old 07-05-2013, 11:29   #1
ShallNotBeInfringed
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Through My Own Ignorance, I Created The Worlds Safe-est Action Glock

Many of you scoff at the few of us that use trigger block safeties on our Glocks. I was banned from a Glock forum for even mentioning people should try one in their Glocks.

A couple of days ago, I retired my 20 year old Glock 20, and purchased a Gen 3 Glock 20SF. The Safe-T-Blok from the old trigger does not work on post 98 production Glocks, so I ordered a new one.

Came today, and guess what? Left Hand. EEEEEKKKK! That is not exactly what I said, but this is a family friendly forum, so call that close enough.

As I was ordering another one, right hand this time, I discovered, nothing could be safer, than making it impossible for the right index finger alone, to shoot the firearm. Completely and Utterly Impossible!

Left hand on chest, right hand on Glock, pull gun, rotate gun, moving gun forward, left hand merges with right hand, left hand pops out trigger block during extension of arms (limbs), right finger engages trigger, BANG.

I will start training this way, and keep this thread posted as to my progress, and failures.

I will need to further modify my Serpa II holsters to now accept a left hand trigger block safety, takes just a minute to remove a little plastic from the holster, not changing the design function.

Literarily License: I give full license for all Trigger Block Safety detractors to engage me fully in this thread. Please no "Your Momma Wears Army Boots, or inbreeding comments (all true, but uncalled for in forum banter), but a full decision of everything Safe Action Trigger is welcome!

General Glocking

General Glocking
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Last edited by ShallNotBeInfringed; 07-05-2013 at 11:36..
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:52   #2
Made in Austria
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Interesting. Do you have a patent on this device?

Edit, forget the question about the patent. I just read that you give full license.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 07-05-2013 at 11:55..
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:14   #3
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
Interesting. Do you have a patent on this device?

Edit, forget the question about the patent. I just read that you give full license.
Not affiliated with Firearms-safety.com in the slightest, but I do love their product. Original ones were aluminum, todays offering matches perfectly the polymer frame of the Glock.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:58   #4
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And what if your left arm is engaged or injured and cannot be used. If required to use just your right hand to draw and fire, you'd really be S. O. L.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:11   #5
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Originally Posted by skyboss_4evr View Post
And what if your left arm is engaged or injured and cannot be used. If required to use just your right hand to draw and fire, you'd really be S. O. L.
Great post!

If I loose my left hand, (AND MY RIGHT THUMB) I am in trouble. Simple change of presentation to remove trigger block safety with right thumb or reach around with middle finger. These two alternatives would be slower, but still not unreasonable for someone wanting to train for this.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:12   #6
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If you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot why on earth do you feel the need to do this? Do you not trust yourself? Fear? I am trying to understand the logic behind this.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:34   #7
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If you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot why on earth do you feel the need to do this? Do you not trust yourself? Fear? I am trying to understand the logic behind this.
How many farmers loose their heads in auger accidents each year? That number would be zero, if farmers would keep their head out of augers.

How many people die crossing streets each day? That number would be zero, if people quit crossing streets.

How many people die in posh restaurants each hear, from chocking on food? That number would be zero if we quit eating out, or liquidity our food, and suck it in through straws?

How many people, suffer a condition commonly referred to as Glock Leg each year? If that number was just one, and it is very much higher than that, with all firearms, not just Glocks, and often times, by highly trained professionals, re-holstering their guns, that number is too high.

My number one goal for carrying a firearm, is personal safety, for myself, my family, and my community. IMPO, a Glock, in condition one, is an ideal personal defense choice, if one has a trigger block safety, and then used in conjunction with a double or triple retention holster. My holster choice is Serpa II.

There are two primary groups of people in the gun world. Folks that have had Negligent Discharges of their firearms, and those that have not YET experienced a Negligent Discharge.

There is another very small group of gun enthusiasts, folks that will go an extra mile, to do everything possible to ensure a negligent discharge could likely never happen. Folks in a supper line, eating fresh killed wild bore , telling everyone, this is my safety, as they roll their trigger finger in the air, do not fit this small group of safety minded people.

Nuclear Power Plants do not have one safety system, to protect the public, they have overlapping, independent and redundant safety systems to ensure public safety.

As for myself, just depending on training to keep my trigger finger off the trigger, is not only not enough, it would be unthinkable.
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:39   #8
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
How many farmers loose their heads in auger accidents each year? That number would be zero, if farmers would keep their head out of augers.

How many people die crossing streets each day? That number would be zero, if people quit crossing streets.

How many people die in posh restaurants each hear, from chocking on food? That number would be zero if we quit eating out, or liquidity our food, and suck it in through straws?

How many people, suffer a condition commonly referred to as Glock Leg each year? If that number was just one, and it is very much higher than that, with all firearms, not just Glocks, and often times, by highly trained professionals, re-holstering their guns, that number is too high.

My number one goal for carrying a firearm, is personal safety, for myself, my family, and my community. IMPO, a Glock, in condition one, is an ideal personal defense choice, if one has a trigger block safety, and then used in conjunction with a double or triple retention holster. My holster choice is Serpa II.

There are two primary groups of people in the gun world. Folks that have had Negligent Discharges of their firearms, and those that have not YET experienced a Negligent Discharge.

There is another very small group of gun enthusiasts, folks that will go an extra mile, to do everything possible to ensure a negligent discharge could likely never happen. Folks in a supper line, eating fresh killed wild bore , telling everyone, this is my safety, as they roll their trigger finger in the air, do not fit this small group of safety minded people.

Nuclear Power Plants do not have one safety system, to protect the public, they have overlapping, independent and redundant safety systems to ensure public safety.

As for myself, just depending on training to keep my trigger finger off the trigger, is not only not enough, it would be unthinkable.

So you are saying you do not trust yourself? I have been staring at my glock all morning, it hasn't gone off yet. It won't unless I walk over and place my finger on the trigger and apply pressure.

I think for you it is just a confidence and training issue. Shoot more, train more, and build your confidence, then you will not have to rely on an injection molded 5 cent widget to give you and your family a false sense of security.

Last edited by eb07; 07-05-2013 at 13:39..
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:31   #9
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I think he is saying that the human brain is not perfect. No one is safe from making a fatal mistake. The best training in the world and discipline can't prevent you from making mistakes. The human brain is full of flaws, but full of great potential as well. I do believe that this safety device can prevent accidents.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 07-05-2013 at 14:41..
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Old 07-05-2013, 14:43   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
I think he is saying that the human brain is not perfect. No one is safe from making a fatal mistake. The best training in the world and discipline can't prevent you from making mistakes. The human brain is full of flaws, but full of great potential as well. I do believe that this safety device can prevent accidents.

Thanks, I guess my small non saftey mind couldn't grasp why one would do this to a perfectly safe firearm

I'll go back to expecting my eventual negligent discharge seeing as I own a firearm.

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Old 07-05-2013, 14:36   #11
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If you want to make your pistol so cumbersome to bring in to action that you need two hands, or difficult and time-consuming manipulations with one hand, that is your choice. But you should understand that not everyone who disagrees with your choice is foolish.

Quote:
There are two primary groups of people in the gun world. Folks that have had Negligent Discharges of their firearms, and those that have not YET experienced a Negligent Discharge.
I have a half century of firearms behind me without a negligent discharge. How much longer do you think I have to wait? That statement is pretty demeaning and dismissive to those who take safe handling seriously.

Quote:
There is another very small group of gun enthusiasts, folks that will go an extra mile, to do everything possible to ensure a negligent discharge could likely never happen. Folks in a supper line, eating fresh killed wild bore , telling everyone, this is my safety, as they roll their trigger finger in the air, do not fit this small group of safety minded people.
And you think those are the only two kinds of gun owners there are in the world - those who agree with you and some sort of slack-jaw that you describe? Similarly demeaning.

Quote:
As for myself, just depending on training to keep my trigger finger off the trigger, is not only not enough, it would be unthinkable.
If you don't trust your training, more training and/or practice may be in order.

There are also any number of well-made pistols with thumb safeties, the vast majority of which are easier and faster to operate than the system you advocate, since the safeties are integrally designed into the pistols.

Last edited by poodleplumber; 07-05-2013 at 14:38..
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Old 07-16-2013, 13:40   #12
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Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
There are two primary groups of people in the gun world. Folks that have had Negligent Discharges of their firearms, and those that have not YET experienced a Negligent Discharge.
So in your opinion EVERYONE who owns a firearm will experience a negligent or accidental discharge? If they haven't already, they will at some point? I don't know what kind of people in the gun world you associate with, but you may want to find a new group to go shooting with as it sounds liek the ones you know are highly incompetent and shouldn't be handling firearms in the first place.

If you follow the most basic rules of firearms handling, negligent and accidental discharges can be avoided entirely.

1. Treat the gun as if it is always loaded, even if you just put it down for a second. Always check that the magazine is out and the chamber is empty if it has left your hands or sight.

2. Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to put a hole in.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.

4. Make sure your holster is in good condition and has nothing in the way that could snag the trigger when reholstering the firearm. If your holster is leather, make sure the area covering the trigger guard is not worn to the point where pressure from an object could snag the trigger. (This one goes hand in hand with number 3.)

These 4 rules are all that are necessary to avoid accidents. You don't need some peice of plastic wedged behind the trigger to be safe with a firearm. It is obvious you don't feel comfortable with the safety mechanisms of the Glock pistol, so why not just go for one of the hundreds of other available options with an external safety?
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Old 07-05-2013, 13:35   #13
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I don't know which is more laughable- saf-t-blok or the siderlock. It's kind of like driving drunk- if it wasn't obvious to the individual it was a bad idea in the first place, no amount of explaining is likely to lead them to illumination . That said, I applaud your ingenuity. But yikes- keep crap out of the trigger guard.
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Old 07-06-2013, 00:56   #14
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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
I don't know which is more laughable- saf-t-blok or the siderlock. It's kind of like driving drunk- if it wasn't obvious to the individual it was a bad idea in the first place, no amount of explaining is likely to lead them to illumination . That said, I applaud your ingenuity. But yikes- keep crap out of the trigger guard.
That and using a Serpa. So much fail...


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Old 07-06-2013, 04:59   #15
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Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
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That and using a Serpa. So much fail...


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Old 07-06-2013, 21:54   #16
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Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
Far better? Far better? Why are they far better?

Comical? If I post news articles where people, well trained people, negligent discharge one in their leg, would that be comical reading for you?

I know of a police dispatch office, with a hole above the 911 switchboard, put there by a 35 year veteran of a major police force. Third largest city in the state. Is that comical?

There is nothing funny, ever, about safety.

Here is a movie clip about gun safety. Great movie, but in real life, would this be prudent?

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Old 07-07-2013, 11:16   #17
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You are one brave dude, ShallNot, for offering this topic for discussion. I hope it stays civil just for the sake of discussing Glock pistols in the context of safe handling practices.

I've never tried the trigger block simply because I have read that they are known to fall out. This is clearly not consistent with your experience, or you wouldn't recommend them, so I'm wondering if there are several manufacturers with one brand being better than others.

The fundamental questions are: Can anyone train trigger finger discipline sufficiently to assure that a ND will not happen under all circumstances of Glock handling? How does one know when such level of training has been achieved? Is a safety device like the trigger block or the Comonilli safety detrimental to 'normal' daily handling of Glock pistols?

I agree with you that it is perfectly sensible for one to err on the side of adopting 'extra' safety measures with Glock pistols, particularly new shooters and shooters new to Glock pistols; this seems intuitively obvious.

I take the theme of this thread to be that adding a safety device like the trigger block (I'm still chewin' on the notion of a left hand block for right hand shooters) to Glock pistols is reasonable, but opting not to do so is reasonable as well for folks experienced with the Glock operating system.
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Old 11-14-2013, 15:22   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed View Post
nothing more needs to be said.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:15   #19
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Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryobi View Post
Incorrect. No fail involved with SERPA. While there are far better options, serpas work great in the hands of a competent shooter. Not comparable with a duty holster, but not comical like a safe-t-block or siderlock. That said, safariland 6377 is a better choice.
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Old 07-05-2013, 20:57   #20
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I think the vast majority of people here, will never encounter a Negligent Discharge.

Some here, not many, but some, may.

I hope, and plan, that I never will.
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