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Old 03-15-2013, 18:17   #1
PghJim
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Exactly How Many Rounds is 1.6 Billion?

With all of the big numbers concerning the debt, I think we sometimes do not realize how big numbers can be. First, I do not know what Homeland Security needs with 1.6 billion rounds of premium hollow point in combined 9mm and 40 S&W. If they were using it for practice, as they say, why would they not buy the cheaper practice rounds.

Here is my point. In 2000 Winchester won a contract with the Secret Service of 1.3 million rounds of 357 sig and that was thought to be news worthy. 1.6 Billion rounds would equal 3,200,000 cases of 500 rounds each, or 32,000,000 50 round boxes. I do not know what the production capacity is to make ammo from ATK, Winchester or Remington, but it seems to me that 1.6 billion would be a hell of a lot of production. Is this contributing to ammo shortage?

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Old 03-15-2013, 19:37   #2
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"Is this contributing to the ammo shortage?"

Of course it is. Why else do you think Obama placed that order?
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Old 03-15-2013, 20:12   #3
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Well I guess 1.6B rounds of ammo takes up less space than 2700 MRAP trucks. Something is in the wind and I do not like it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 22:56   #4
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There are a dozen or so threads in the GNC Forum dealing with the tin foil hatters and their whacko theories on this,

Search Function is your friend.
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Old 03-16-2013, 00:39   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
There are a dozen or so threads in the GNC Forum dealing with the tin foil hatters and their whacko theories on this,

Search Function is your friend.
Thanks for the lesson, what makes you think I did not search the issue. Are you now putting me in the tin foil hatters, because I did not put forth a theory? I just wanted to share my take on 1.6B and how much that really is.

You kind of surprised me, I thought you were a cool guy.

These people may be tin foil, but I think it needs a discussion:

http://townhall.com/columnists/diana...llets-n1534513

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:43   #6
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Thanks for the lesson, what makes you think I did not search the issue. Are you now putting me in the tin foil hatters, because I did not put forth a theory? I just wanted to share my take on 1.6B and how much that really is.

You kind of surprised me, I thought you were a cool guy.

These people may be tin foil, but I think it needs a discussion:

http://townhall.com/columnists/diana...llets-n1534513

A. It's a contract to potentially buy that quantity

B. the Feds shoot a lot of ammo

C. do you really think the Fed. Gov't, the same people who brought you the morons in the TSA, could orchestrate some grand plan (as well as implement it) to subjugate the American populace when we can't even placate small Third World countries with the entire Military in a decade? Think about it for a moment.
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Old 03-16-2013, 00:47   #7
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Just out of curiosity has anyone actually seen documented proof of the 1.6 billion rounds. I am not putting anyone down and it very well might be true. I have done a few searches in the google machine and its mostly blog posts.

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Old 03-16-2013, 00:58   #8
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Just out of curiosity has anyone actually seen documented proof of the 1.6 billion rounds. I am not putting anyone down and it very well might be true. I have done a few searches in the google machine and its mostly blog posts.

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How is Forbes Magazine for a credible source?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:41   #9
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How is Forbes Magazine for a credible source?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphben...-conversation/
On some things yes. But this is an oped piece, it's opinion, not necessarily fact. He says his source is an AP story that ran in one Denver newspaper. So then how credible is the AP? Not very IMHO.

Did DHS let a contract for ammo? Probably. The question, is over how many years? 1.6B rounds tomorrow is different from the same amount over 20 years. Will it impact consumers? Only those who use .40. Doesn't explain the shortage in 22lr, 9mm, 10mm or 45acp. DHS didn't include that in the contract. Time to go get 45GAP!

Fred's probably closer to the truth, panic buying and new shooters caused the shortage. DHS certainly didn't help the situation IF the are taking deliveryASAP.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:28   #10
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Thing that gets me is around here they are not even limiting people. They fill a freakin cart and walk out...whats up with that..

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Old 03-16-2013, 00:52   #11
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It's not really that much ammo when you think about it. Since 1/2012, more than 500, 000 new gun owners have come on line. There are an estimated 60-70M gun owners. If everyone buys 100rds a month on avg, you go thru 1.6B rounds pretty fast.
DO I think the govt is doing this on purpose, maybe, govt have done lots of so called crazy things to get & hold power. PBO really likes his power as do all the Liberals running things now. SO sure, maybe, why not?
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Old 03-16-2013, 00:59   #12
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It's not really that much ammo when you think about it. Since 1/2012, more than 500, 000 new gun owners have come on line. There are an estimated 60-70M gun owners. If everyone buys 100rds a month on avg, you go thru 1.6B rounds pretty fast.
DO I think the govt is doing this on purpose, maybe, govt have done lots of so called crazy things to get & hold power. PBO really likes his power as do all the Liberals running things now. SO sure, maybe, why not?
Fred - The agency has a few thousand employees not the 70M of the general population, so it would represent a lot. Enough to shoot every American 5 times. I am not guessing, but I would like to find some media people that will ask hard questions and not eaccept the standard line. See my link above.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:59   #13
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About 5 rounds for everyone living in the US today. Someone said it was enough to wage open war for ten years. Bull.

Compair that to 2,900 rounds for everyone living in the US and you have the estimated ammo used in WWII which lasted about 5 years.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:13   #14
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It's certainly curious, but if they're buyin' all the 9MM and .40,
that doesn't account for the shortage in all other calibers.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:10   #15
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Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
It's certainly curious, but if they're buyin' all the 9MM and .40,
that doesn't account for the shortage in all other calibers.
It may if you consider companies transitioning from other calibers to ramp up 9/40 production.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:43   #16
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Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
It's certainly curious, but if they're buyin' all the 9MM and .40,
that doesn't account for the shortage in all other calibers.
probably because that's only the calibers they are making to fill the order.
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Old 04-10-2013, 13:30   #17
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It's certainly curious, but if they're buyin' all the 9MM and .40,
that doesn't account for the shortage in all other calibers.
Sure it does. The resources, brass, copper, lead,etc..as well as the machine and labor time, needed to produce 'all other calibers' are being consumed by the production of 1.6B 9mm and .40
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:39   #18
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Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
About 5 rounds for everyone living in the US today. Someone said it was enough to wage open war for ten years. Bull.

Compair that to 2,900 rounds for everyone living in the US and you have the estimated ammo used in WWII which lasted about 5 years.
Our involvement in WWII was from 07Dec1941 to 02Sep1945. That's 3 years and 9 months.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:44   #19
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Our involvement in WWII was from 07Dec1941 to 02Sep1945. That's 3 years and 9 months.
The war started before we got involved. The stat I found included the manufacture of small arms ammo from mid 39 to 45. It was not just US manufacture.
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Old 03-16-2013, 00:56   #20
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Someone estimated the ammo purchased by HS recently would wage a 24 year all out domestic war. 24 years!
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